Influencing children to become heterosexual

Should parents ever try to infulence their children to become heterosexual?

  • YES

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • NO

    Votes: 22 62.9%

  • Total voters
    35
So I spent a few days with the extended family; my cousin's little boy is three. He's bright, personable, and for some reason a cross-dresser. It's not like his parents tried to make this happen; he just prefers pretty dresses and cute matching sets, pink and white gingham, &c.

So what should his parents do? Should they punish him? Force him to wear "manly" clothes? Embarrass and deride him? How do we know this behavior is significant that the child will be homosexual? Is failing to force him to dress in "boyish" clothes "influencing" his sexuality? Does it make my cousin and her husband bad parents that they prefer their child comfortable and happy?

Really, what does positive reinforcement of heterosexuality look like? And at what point is it simply presumptuous?
 
I would definitely say there is something wrong with your cousin's parenting if they're dressing their three year old son in pink party dresses.

Because that's what they're doing.
He's 3.
He's not dressing himself.
He's being dressed.
In pink party dresses.

Unless you're making it all up, of course.
In which case, you went too far. Should have scaled it up at least a few years.
 
No, actually, he is choosing to dress in these things. I have watched the process myself. Remember, "pink party dresses" is a gender distinction we make, but he does not. Interestingly, the Missouri Synod Lutheran (e.g conservative Christian) grandparents don't see a problem, either. Like I am preparing to say to my daughter's maternal grandparents, "I'm waiting for volunteers: Who is going to sexualize my daughter's outlook?"

Nobody wants to admit that's what they're doing when they try to make boys into traditional boys and girls into traditional girls. Even with my own daughter, I would give more consideration to her maternal grandparents' protestations (or her mother's, at that) were their reasons grounded in observable behaviorism. But I don't understand how they can be so concerned with a child's sexuality or sense of sexuality. When she crawls into bed with me after waking up in the middle of the night, it's about her sense of familiarity and feeling safe, not about getting off. There's plenty of discussion to be had about the roots of her personal-security perspective, but we can wait a few years before leaping to the sexual.
 
He's three years old.
He shouldn't be allowed the full spectrum of choice.
He may 'choose' the dress.
But he's being dressed.
 
I disagree, Invert. I mean, it's not like he's trying to walk around in fishnets and stilettos, or pasties and an elephant-sock g-string. And maybe you just haven't worn too many dresses in your day--in fact, neither have I, but I will presume for the sake of argument that I've worn more than you; correct me if I'm wrong--but it's fairly easy for the boy to dress himself in some of it; that his parents are willing to work the buttons when necessary is an issue if you really need to make one. However, I'm not willing to saddle a child that young with the burden of gender responsibilities according to sexual expectation.

These children are human beings. I beg all to never forget that simple fact. They are human beings and largely free of the arbitrary restrictions that bind and mold the rest of us despite what we might want or need for ourselves. I protect my daughter's humanity, and will advocate the same for my cousin's son, or any other child. The full spectrum of choice is an argument, as I see it, that pertains to health and vital security issues: the boy's parents are much less comfortable with him exercising his choice to peek under the heavy cover of the hot-tub than his exercise of will to wear the colors and fabrics that make him happiest. When he wants a rubber skirt with a butt-plug inside it, yes, I would hope they put their foot down. But what does this influence, this insistence on heterosexuality (or homosexuality, for that matter) look like, and where does it come from?

I won't insist on the following point, but instead wish to test the wind: If we wish our children to be heterosexual because it would cause them great pain to suffer the bigotries against homosexuals, at what point does that recommend that black people should not have children because it will cause those children great pain to suffer the bigotries against dark skin; or should anyone in the United States terminate a pregnancy determined to develop as a female, since gender discrimination and sexual harassment will cause those people great pain in their lives?

Part of what puzzles me about both these influencing-sexuality discussions is that I don't know what, short of what I consider impropriety, such influence looks like. Should we, as an extended family, intentionally and with methodical calculation alienate the young boy who envies his cousins' wardrobes? What reason should we give him when refusing his chosen attire? The nearest I can think to a good reason is still insufficient: "Don't wear girly clothes, little man, because there are lots of stupid people out there who will try to make you feel like shit because of what you wear. Conformity is the only true road to bliss. Feel different, left out, locked out--in other words, feel miserably alone--and you'll be happy."

Perhaps I'm pushing it with that last about conformity, bliss, and the happiness of being miserably alone, but what does this sexual-orientation influence look like that isn't a horrible betrayal of a child's unspoiled humanity?
 
D'ster said:
This is all you had to write.
No. That statement was all you wished to see. My point was that I do not care if he is heterosexual or homosexual. He is who he is. Or that should be he will be what he will be when he grows up. If he's happy with whatever sexuality he might be, who am I to say he is wrong? Who am I to mould him into something that he is not?

invert_nexus said:
He's three years old.
He shouldn't be allowed the full spectrum of choice.
He may 'choose' the dress.
But he's being dressed.
I have a 5 year old little cousin who from the time she was 2, wanted to cut her hair short and dress like a boy. She cried for hours on her third birthday when she was given dolls and girly toys and clothes for her birthday presents.. she wanted cars and boys toys. Her older and younger sisters are very 'girly', but she simply is not. Any attempt to put her in a dress from the age of 2 would result in a screaming fit and a very unhappy child. In the end, her parents simply let her dress as she chose. They cut her hair as she wanted. They went from having a very unhappy little girl to a now very happy and stable little girl who apparently wants to drive racing cars when she grows up.

They tried the not offering the boys clothes and only offering girl's clothes but she was not a happy child. Now she is. Which would you choose? A happy child dressing as he/she wishes to be dressed or an unhappy child dressing as society deems he/she should be dressed? Children from a very young age have a definate view of their selves. So what if the little boy wants to wear a party dress? Little girls want to wear jeans, etc. If he's happy wearing it, so be it. He's not harming anyone by doing so.

Why not let the child explore who he is instead of trying to dictate who he should be?
 
Absane said:
In both polls I voted no. It's a natural INSTINCT to be heterosexual. Why the hell should be have to teach them anything?
What he said.
 
Bells said:

Why not let the child explore who he is instead of trying to dictate who he should be?

As an American and someone who has received both psychological counseling and psychiatric drugs in my day, I just wanted to point out that I think your question expresses a great deal of what's wrong with all of us as human beings.

Consider in religious discussions at Sciforums a tendency for a self-proclaimed atheist to focus most directly on the religion closest to his or her experience. For general purposes, we might look at, for want of better phrasing, "anti-Christian atheists". Even when looking at and criticizing other faiths, there still exists a tendency that the atheist perceives the religion in question not according to its own terms, but according to the most familiar rejection to the atheist's outlook. American political conservatives often seem incapable of acknowledging the validity of a gay person's experiences while the conservative rhetoric looks so nonsensical to the homosexual or gay-politik sympathizer that we often do not know exactly how to respond to what seems concentrated, sludging hatred. The standards that dictate what we are may actually disagree with the real and true self within. The Christian wishes to be compassionate, but instead becomes a hatemonger because that is what the rules dictating who they are have determined. Perhaps a different foundation of Christian faith would create a different outcome, as there are churches and believers who don't make a big deal out of gays. Perhaps with the atheist, it is a matter of whether atheism is a natural or reactionary condition. I recall my nihilistic phase: anyone who claimed to be happy was lying. Is that necessarily true, proper, or even decent? Or was it more a result of the events and conditions which demanded a reaction of me in a first place, and the nature of the reaction evoked?

Everybody is amazed watching my daughter interact with her world; few observers seem to understand her seemingly flighty regard for the world. It is a weakness of my parentage: it hurts me deeply to force her into any given pattern. If I could let her perceive and dream and feel for the rest of her life, I would. And when I figure out how that result is accomplished, I'll be sure to let everybody know. She's a human being, as pure and unsullied as can be. I love watching her be human, and it hurts to ask her to be anything less. I would rather she develop into the human being she is than the one I would demand of her.

And besides, while very little surprises me, I can't wait to be surprised by this little light o'mine. How could I not let her shine as brightly as she can?
 
tiassa said:
In the meantime, the culture around us distributes its sexual sentiments wrongly and perversely. I was seventeen when a girl apologized to me for not being a virgin when we were first together; why should she apologize to me for being raped as a little girl? That such currents hold so much power in the culture is worrisome. Hetero- or homo-, I just want my daughter to find happiness. If I think her odds are better as a lesbian, it's probably some silly prejudice on my part asserting the simplicity and wholesomeness of a relationship sans penis.
I wonder how many women are homosexual because of their attaction to women,

or because of their dislike or fear of men?
 
samcdkey said:
Why are you so interested in race and homosexuality, D'ster?
I used to be very interested in "race and homosexuality" (human behaviour) I really injoy learning the many differnces that humans have, I have learned alot and feel I have a very good understanding on these issues..

Now, what I find more interesting is peoples reactions when their faced with the facts and truths of these issues.
 
D'ster said:
I used to be very interested in "race and homosexuality" (human behaviour) I really injoy learning the many differnces that humans have, I have learned alot and feel I have a very good understanding on these issues..

Now, what I find more interesting is peoples reactions when their faced with the facts and truths of these issues.


What are your opinions about the similarities between people?

What do you feel are the things all people have in common?
 
Why not let the child explore who he is instead of trying to dictate who he should be?
Usually it's becaused of the parents' religions or prejudices. The same reason that children are forced to go to only one type of church, and scolded when they attempt to explore other religions. It's also the same reason why some parents shun their child from interracial relationships. Basically because a parent is given the right to impose their veiws on their children, and so they do.
 
you will only draw attention to a seperation between hetero and homo sexual. This can lead to allot of different behaviour including making your child finding homo sexs naughty and therefore highly erotic.
 
samcdkey said:
Are you a homosexual ( interesting that the first thing you thought of was bungholes) ?

I would ignore D'ster... his views of the world are distorted... he is not exactly a modern Renaissance man.
 
Absane said:
I would ignore D'ster... his views of the world are distorted... he is not exactly a modern Renaissance man.

I believe he's a racist homosexual; I just want to know how he perceives himself
 
D'ster said:

I wonder how many women are homosexual because of their attaction to women,

or because of their dislike or fear of men?

Fair question, I suppose, but my answer is a question in itself: Why does it matter?

Along the same lines, though, a friend of mine bases his dislike of homosexuals on personal experience. He claims a 350-pound "Samoan faggot" tried to rape him once when they both were drunk. Traumatic, indeed, I would imagine. But I posed to him the following issue: What if every woman who experienced the profound distaste of male heterosexual advances were to react so sharply? There would be nobody left to hit on.

I have not yet heard an answer, and do not expect one. To the other, it's his business. He doesn't actually realize how many homo- or bi-sexual people he knows, and maybe I'll let him in on the secret someday.
 
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