In regards to atheism.

[Xelasnave.1947]

Although underwater welders and rust might dispute that assertion

And think of volcanoes.

Thats the problem with anologies they sound sortta smart but when you think about it you get exception after exception such that the anology fails big time....

But we are told that the bible was for folk of a different time so we must make allowances that today although they seem like nonsence and we can still find wisdom.

I disagree and I bet you do also.


I say drop the anology state what you really mean to say and look to see if when expressed in clear language it makes sence.

I suspect you would be with me here as you present posts that are clear and to the point.

Which all boiled down means this.
Jan and Wellwisher...please......
If you have evidence of god present it ...drop the symbolism etc. use clear language and be clear....

God is... Not evidence.

Look inside your mind...Not evidence.

You don't know where to look...not evidence.

Such and such a bible passage..not evidence.

Alex

 

[Michael 345]

But we are told that the bible was for folk of a different time so we must make allowances that today although they seem like nonsence and we can still find wisdom.

True and I sorta missed that

However in my defence your most worshipful honour the god people of today also miss the point

the bible was for folk of a different time so

why

we must make allowances

when god people preach

the bible is as relevant today as it was then???

God is... Not evidence.

Look inside your mind...Not evidence.

You don't know where to look...not evidence.

Such and such a bible passage..not evidence.

God isn't ..... is Evidence of absence

Look inside your mind ..... Since MIND is a processing system of the brain there is nothing physical to look inside of

You don't know where to look .... Just been told inside your mind - pay attention. I just explained why that not possible

Such and such a bible passage ...... Ah your interpretation is lacking

I rest my case and that is probably not all I have to say but enough for the moment

 

[spidergoat]

Correct. All that's in your mind are thoughts.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Yes thinking about God and how the prospect of existence of God is more than remote... for me.

Doesn't matter. Spiritually you have all the time in the material world, to come to the understanding that God Is.

When I ask for evidence none is presented.

Is that what you meant when you said you have looked for evidence?

Yes let's do that, given I have found no evidence, do you have any leads.

I don't need leads.
But if you think evidence is given by asking people for it, it's hardly surprising.

What else have you done?

Don't worry about what evidence do I require just put up anything you have.

Asking for evidence of God is a pointless pursuit. Probably that's why some atheists love citing (no evidence). It implies that God is simply another phenomenon.

Like I said be sincere in your study of God. At first it will seem hard to get your head round, but I believe, with perseverance, you can begin to seriously comprehend.

Maybe you had a situation that seemed like a miracle... I don't know what evidence you can call upon?

Nope. It's really simple, and obvious, God Is. I've never seen or been in contact with anything I could call a miracle, apart from the majestic creation of this virtually realistic reality we call life, and it's variation and abundance.

I read the bible I read something you mentioned to me re the battlefield, I found out that cart loads of scriptures were sent from India to China,
AND
I have asked you today, and in the past, for the evidence you think could help.

So you ask theists to show you God, you read the Bible, and glimpse the Battlefield scenario, and you believe you have done enough to say there's no evidence of God?
Yer havin a larf mate!

Good advice there Jan but there is not enough left to start any new hobbies.
Talking about religion takes me away from reality.

Talking about religion isn't reality?
That's silly talk.

But your use of the word "currently" hints that you have evidence ready to present such that you will show God does exist.

No it means that at some point you will comprehend God Is.

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Which all boiled down means this.
Jan and Wellwisher...please......
If you have evidence of god present it ...drop the symbolism etc. use clear language and be clear....

All perceptions are evidence of God, based on general definitions.

jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Is that what you meant when you said you have looked for evidence?

No what I mean is...I ask for evidence and none is presented.

But if you think evidence is given by asking people for it, it's hardly surprising.

No hardley surprising at all Jan.

I expect when someone complains to the police that his neighbour killed his dog the copper will ask for evidence and if provided with evidence will review that evidence so as to determine if it supports the claim of the neighbour accusing his neighbour.

A reasonable approach and certainly better than the police taking the word of the complainant and taking the matter to court where the case would be thrown out because of lack of evidence.

Jan do you think supporting evidence is important or should we just take someones unsupported assertion.

What else have you done?

There are so many things that I have done that I could write a couple of boring books, different jobs, different marriages, different hobbies.... And perhaps relevant attended Sunday School and church to be preached to about God...I recall asking questions but the answers never seemed to address my questions and for some reason I am now reminded of those experiences.

Asking for evidence of God is a pointless pursuit.

I must agree Jan I ask you and sometimes you have not even acknowledged my post and other times although you reply I am not offered any evidence.

So I must agree a pointless pursuit.

. It implies that God is simply another phenomenon.

It implies God does not exist an implication that could be rebutted with evidence one could think.

Like I said be sincere in your study of God.

I know you mean well Jan but I say similar to you...Be sincere in your approach and you could accept God does not exist and move to a higher level of enlightenment.

At first it will seem hard to get your head round, but I believe, with perseverance, you can begin to seriously comprehend.

And I say the same to you higher enlightenment is not beyond you.

So you ask theists to show you God, you read the Bible, and glimpse the Battlefield scenario, and you believe you have done enough to say there's no evidence of God?
Yer havin a larf mate!

Think of the neighbour and the dog situation.

A point could come for the copper to say well I have looked into the matter and without you presenting some sort of evidence there is nothing more that can be done.

No it means that at some point you will comprehend God Is.

So I am left with. God is.

Thanks for taking me on this journey.

My request for evidence trumps your God is.
Want to play another round you may get a better hand ..

Have a good day Jan thanks for the chats as I said takes me away from my reality.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

All perceptions are evidence of God, based on general definitions.

jan.

Thank you Jan that is a start.
If you could expand upon that I think we could discuss it...

Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

I expect when someone complains to the police that his neighbour killed his dog the copper will ask for evidence and if provided with evidence will review that evidence so as to determine if it supports the claim of the neighbour accusing his neighbour.

If you insist on thinking that God, if He exists, does so like the things that exist in our perception, then you may as well not bother enquire, because God will always not exist from that type of awareness. If you are serious then must put away all preconceptions, because it's a lot simpler than you seem to think.

Jan do you think supporting evidence is important or should we just take someones unsupported assertion.

Yes, I do. But you have to take everything into account.

And perhaps relevant attended Sunday School and church to be preached to about God...I recall asking questions but the answers never seemed to address my questions and for some reason I am now reminded of those experiences.

Well I truly am sorry about that.

I must agree Jan I ask you and sometimes you have not even acknowledged my post and other times although you reply I am not offered any evidence.

So I must agree a pointless pursuit.

I meant from the pov that you will not be able to comprehend God, by starting from the position that everything you perceive is not only due to God's energies, but is God's energies. You are looking for something that exist and operates separate to God, and not looking at the whole picture. God isn't in bits, God is Whole.

It implies God does not exist an implication that could be rebutted with evidence one could think.

From your perception you are correct. There is no evidence of God's existence, and God doesn't exist. Hence you are an atheist. That's as far as it can ever go for you, until you break out of this thinking.

I know you mean well Jan but I say similar to you...Be sincere in your approach and you could accept God does not exist and move to a higher level of enlightenment.

Your concept of God doesn't exist, because if He did there would be evidence. There isn't, so He doesn't. That's all you can say. For me to accept that God doesn't exist, I would have to deny Him. So it is possible that I could do that, but I would be lying to myself. Then I would join the crusade to get God out of public life, debating theists, telling them how deluded they are. All so I can try to justify my pointless position. Nah!

So I am left with. God is.

Great place to start.

My request for evidence trumps your God is.
Want to play another round you may get a better hand ..

You have no idea.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Thank you Jan that is a start.
If you could expand upon that I think we could discuss it...

Alex

That's the end.
You must work your way back.

jan.

 

[DaveC426913]

Asking for evidence of God is a pointless pursuit. Probably that's why some atheists love citing (no evidence). It implies that God is simply another phenomenon.

Like I said be sincere in your study of God. At first it will seem hard to get your head round, but I believe, with perseverance, you can begin to seriously comprehend.

There's nothing wrong with the spiritual pursuit of God. I certainly respect that, as I'll bet, most people here do.

The only beef anyone here has had is the assertion that one can know, in some objective sense, that they have found the same God as everyone else.


If you hadn't been so insistent from the get-go that it would stand up to objectivity, this thread would have come to a happy consensus about 800 posts ago.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

If you are serious then must put away all preconceptions, because it's a lot simpler than you seem to think.

Jan I say the same to you.

But you have to take everything into account.

You would have to be God to be able to take everything into account Jan.
Does it not make sence to operate with what we can establish within some sort of reason rather than just invent an entity which even if found to exist would be beyond our understanding.

Well I truly am sorry about that.

Thank you but I would be one of many I expect.
If God exists we can obviously say he was not an invention of man but there is no escape from the proposition that man created religion.

I would bet there would be less atheists if there were no religions.

It is the good people of a religion that do good work and taken advantage of to generate cash flow.

God's energies. You are looking for something that exist and operates separate to God, and not looking at the whole picture. God isn't in bits, God is Whole.

I understand the proposition but that does not really take us any where.

You can say God is everything but if you really accept that it means that you and I are each a part of God talking to each other, mere voices in his head.

Could that work?

That's as far as it can ever go for you, until you break out of this thinking.

And step two would be to surrender to imagining whatever I guess.

Delusion is to surrender to imagination to a degree so how could one determine what is delusion and what is not?

So it is possible that I could do that, but I would be lying to myself.

I would not like you to do that Jan.

I approach the matter the same way.

To say God exists I would know I was lieing to myself.

You have no idea.

I will take that as a yes.

Oh no you seem to have draw the God is card again.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

That's the end.
You must work your way back.

jan.

I get it you are busy and had no time to think.

If you could continue re perceptions that could work.

Alex

 

[DaveC426913]

Delusion is to surrender to imagination to a degree so how could one determine what is delusion and what is not?

Well said.

In general, when we look to discern imagination from reality, the criteria we use is physical evidence and falsifiability.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

In general, when we look to discern imagination from reality, the criteria we use is physical evidence and falsifiability.

Even said better.
I find nailing down where belief starts frustrating.
Anyways I feel we are making progress ...
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

If God exists we can obviously say he was not an invention of man but there is no escape from the proposition that man created religion.

I'm working on a much longer post which has at it's heart the anthropomorphism of Physics

Will post as soon as I can

Now even while working on a craft

do I post it in current thread

or

start a new thread?

Any thoughts?

 

[Michael 345]

I find nailing down where belief starts frustrating.

Do you have also have trouble nailing jelly to the wall?

Belief walks into your brain when common sense walks out

Frustrate no more

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

start a new thread?

Yes start a new thread.
May help generate traffic.
More traffic is good.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Do you have also have trouble nailing jelly to the wall?

Belief walks into your brain when common sense walks out

Frustrate no more

Nailing jelly to wall puts one in a position of working with physical objects.

A jelly, a nail and a hammer.

We are already miles ahead.

I can nail jelly to a wall it is simple if you think about it.

Can you think how it could be done, It is simple really.

Present your approach or ask how.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Actually I now have two solutions.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

Actually I now have two solutions.
Alex

First you have to think like a jelly and ask yourself

Do you want to be nailed to the wall?

Next you have to accept

wait for it

Jelly Is