I'm sorry, but there is no god.

I thought god was ALL LOVING ,ALL GOOD!?

why the [Deleted] would god need to TEST anyone when he is (ALLEGEDLY)
ALL KNOWING!!!
he KNOWS everything that will happen from begining of time till the end and everything in between,to allow such evil shyt happen he would have to be uncaring evil monster,or NOT exist!
Everything is a part of His creation, He has made all the days, He fulfills His purpouse and keeps His promises, don't we see result when He tests us? You may come out stronger from tests, who knows how we develop our strengths or get well and healthy? All respect to doctors and psychologists, but we just don't know enough to treat everything the way it should be treated.
 
It's hardly a baby's fault they were born deft with two heads and no arms and three eyes.

I wonder why, if God just wanted free-willed beings, didn't It make them out of silicon and why didn't It make these beings so they asexually procreated and derived their energy from the sun like a plant? Then they could sit there and enjoy the sun and think about God.

I suppose it seems in making us humans, It intended for a carnivorous ape-like creature that travels in packs, must kill to live - with a tendency towards killing his own and can be born mentally and physically deranged.

God could have easily made this universe such that human CAN NOT be born abnormally or in pain or missing eyes and ears - where such things were impossibilities, yet it didn't

What does that say about God?

Michael
You think you are ontop of a mountain looking down at all others, but you have inherent faults too, it is these faults that you have to struggle with. People are born into this world and has to struggle too, it is not a perfect world, but even crippled ones find joy in their life, the world is unique in that it provides us with the tools to achieve something for ourselves, to improve things, all these things had to be, the world had to be imperfect for us to improve it, I'm more worried about your ignorance than I am of any crippled ones.
 
Heh..you know what ticks me off is how does a god expect us to believe in it if the god shows no signs of its existence?

Jesus says "Blessed are those that believe, but have not seen [me]."
You have heard of Him though, you see the world around you, you can easily believe in Him.

Guess I'm not blessed.
Believing without seeing is not the only reason for blessing.

Moses had the burning bush! Jonah had the whale! Where is my sign? :bawl: I know that may sound sarcastic...but, come on...seriously, what does God expect?
We get the Jonah sign.


God cannot know all things and yet man have free will.

I can give examples in scripture for the Christians...but, there are exmples where God changed his mind, was awestruck, and many others because of a choice a person made. Now that shows that God does not know THE future, but elsewhere in scriptures it says that God knows all futures. God knows how everything will play out till the end of time at every instant...but the future changes as humans make decisions, and God knows the new future. If you knew what everyone did, is doing, and what they are thinking of doing, you could predict the future as well if you had the brain power to do the math.
I guess that depends on the road the man walks. Surely God knows what lies ahead, but you have to find your way.
 
Hey I totally agree. But there's challenge, like say my growing up trailer park-trash, and then there's cruelty - like a child molested from birth and finally brutally murdered at the ripe old age of 12. That's not a life-challenge but simply sick.

Not to mention people who are born with separated brains or missing large chunks of brain and not able to mentally function above the age of 6 etc... God could have, with ease, made a world where such existences are impossibilities. Such is the Power of God. As God did not do so - that says something about the nature of God.

Then again the Abrahamic God even goes so far as to manipulate people so as to have an excuse to murder others. I'm thinking of the hardening of the Pharaoh's heart and the following murder of Egyptian children.

Michael

You see Michael; you are the way you are because of every single circumstance you have encountered in your life, you have learned your lessons.
On the other hand, the world cannot be the utopia you are talking about, it is impossible. There world is perfect as it is, with injustice and all; because just because of the fact that there is injustice, you know what justice is; just because the fact that there is evil, you know what good is, and just because there is death, there is also life.
What do you want? That death ceases to exist? Then birth would be ceased to exist as well...

We tend to blame God for our misfortunes, and even say that there isn’t a God because he is supposed to be good, and you don’t see it. But it is right in front of you; it is a matter of perspective. It is a lie what people say about if you don’t believe in God you are going to hell; you are actually in the same position of a religious person right now. For example, Nietzchefan here is one of the people who make more fun about God and the concept people give Him, at the same time, I see he is one of the most religious persons there are on this forum, he likes to have fun, to make jokes, to laugh… there is something very spiritual about laughter, you don’t see laughing dogs very often do you? Laughing is a human thing, and it is very religious; even if you don’t “believe in a God”.

Everything is supposed to be as it is right now, because that is the way things work; we could never imagine the bigger picture, we are like skin cells of a higher organism that claim injustice because some skin cells are unfortunate.

And the Bible… don´t get me started about the Bible, if you don´t believe in the God of the Bible, that is ok; I don´t.
 
And the Bible… don´t get me started about the Bible, if you don´t believe in the God of the Bible, that is ok; I don´t.

It's ok according to you, but certainly not Him, therefore, it is not ok. If it's not ok, then you are in conflict with Him. Being in conflict with Him is certainly a losing proposition, but at the same time certainly your choice.

Being in agreement with The God of the Bible is the correct 'place' to be.
 
It's ok according to you, but certainly not Him, therefore, it is not ok. If it's not ok, then you are in conflict with Him. Being in conflict with Him is certainly a losing proposition, but at the same time certainly your choice.

Beware of those who try to manipulate you with fear, those are your enemies; that was God speaking through me.
 
What do you want? That death ceases to exist? Then birth would be ceased to exist as well...

Ah, the image of heaven..

If that's the eventual outcome anyway - no death, disease etc etc why not just go straight to that part and save all the f****** around?

probably a good indication why the relationship...

Blah blah blah.
 
Ah, the image of heaven..

If that's the eventual outcome anyway - no death, disease etc etc why not just go straight to that part and save all the f****** around?

That is the eventual outcome, only if you earned it with your actions, words and most importantly: thoughts. On the meanwhile, we are just learning our lesson because of past failures; our failures, nobody else to blame, thats the sucky part.
 
That is the eventual outcome, only if you earned it with your actions, words and most importantly: thoughts.

But why bother with a test of people that you know wont act, think or say anything right in the first place? Why not just create a heaven full of decent sheep which is exactly what the outcome is going to be anyway? Why create horseshit before the horse?

On the meanwhile, we are just learning our lesson because of past failures; our failures, nobody else to blame, thats the sucky part.

Speak for yourself.

I actually created a bunch of robots and gave them many abilities - the ability to kill, be nice etc etc and then laid down a book of rules that they all had to abide by. One of these robots was psychotic - something he didn't choose to be, and so failed to upkeep a law that many of the others could keep without an issue.

If for instance I was god and gave a law to mankind prohibiting sex. The problem with such a law is that it doesn't work on any level of equality. A 93 year old can obey that law with ease, without even thinking about it.. A hormonal 15 year old will have an impossible time of it - because of the way he had been programmed.

Ultimately the blame has to lie with the creator.
 
But why bother with a test of people that you know wont act, think or say anything right in the first place? Why not just create a heaven full of decent sheep which is exactly what the outcome is going to be anyway? Why create horseshit before the horse?



Speak for yourself.

I actually created a bunch of robots and gave them many abilities - the ability to kill, be nice etc etc and then laid down a book of rules that they all had to abide by. One of these robots was psychotic - something he didn't choose to be, and so failed to upkeep a law that many of the others could keep without an issue.

If for instance I was god and gave a law to mankind prohibiting sex. The problem with such a law is that it doesn't work on any level of equality. A 93 year old can obey that law with ease, without even thinking about it.. A hormonal 15 year old will have an impossible time of it - because of the way he had been programmed.

Ultimately the blame has to lie with the creator.
If God created you that is...

The devil spread his seed in the world.

Ultimately God made everything, but if you were only created inside that everything and not as a critical step of God Himself, then what are you?

The analogy of the robots is false. God didn't want a robot, God wouldn't love a robot, it's not the skin and flesh that God loves, He loves you and you are no robot, and can never be.

What if you wouldn't find your way if the body was different, if you didn't have those faults, if you were Perfect? Perhaps life is a step in our making? So how can you complain? I think because you speak out of dumbness and doubt - it's not the state you should preffer, when you are angry you make mistakes, when you doubt you trigger falsity. A little bit of anger can be good, a little bit of doubt can be good, but if you overdo it then you are bound for accident.

Oh, and you probably won't come nearer the truth here on sciforums, don't make the mistake of thinking that the best answer possible will come from here, you stand on a mountain passing your question, thinking that the mere amount of people will be able to answer it properly, but look to the one individual and ask him. Honestly. You will find that the truth isn't in numbers.
 
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If God created you that is...

The devil spread his seed in the world.

What a sly dog that devil is. Popped himself into existence with the express purpose of seeding the world with evil/possessing people and turning them evil etc etc.

Oh if only there was some being that existed that could do something about it!!!

God didn't want a robot, God wouldn't love a robot

The good folk get to spend an eternity worshipping this being. Didn't want robots indeed :bugeye:
 
What a sly dog that devil is. Popped himself into existence with the express purpose of seeding the world with evil/possessing people and turning them evil etc etc.

Oh if only there was some being that existed that could do something about it!!!
They have a purpouse though. Everything must have.

-Even if they have blinded themselves for it-

The good folk get to spend an eternity worshipping this being. Didn't want robots indeed :bugeye:
That they are robots are your oppinion, you don't see what is happening behind the surface. You don't see backstage. As I said, it isn't the robots that matter.
 
I see your concerns, I understand, but there is a need to see farther than our limited perspective. Try to understand existence and how it works, and you will go mad; the thing is a brain the size of the Universe is needed to understand it, are you aware of that? of our tiny little arrogant brains? Trying to understand something obviously outside our understanding is kinda idiotic...

There is free will, we all love free will don´t we? Then why blame god on the evil of the world? free will is a both side coin. Ask God for free will, and you will get a dualist world with good and evil.

People would like a world without evil, without death, without unsatisfactory circumstances; can´t you see the stupidity in that? If there was no death, everything would be created and there would be nothing left to create, nothing to be born... If there was no evil, there would be no free will, and worst, everybody would be "good and loving" but nobody would realize what is good; in fact if everyone would be "good and loving" then people would create divisions on who is better than who, and there would be no evil, but good, and more good. The people who would be "more good", would believe that the people who are "less good", are evil, and they would blame God for that.
What the hell? I don´t know why people are always arguing for the way things are, when you are responsable for your happiness and your world view. You are arguing for the way things are, and if there was an "all loving world" you would be arguing there too...
It is your mind that creates unsatisfactory circumstances, and only you are responsible for your inner-feelings that you share with the world.
 
They have a purpouse though. Everything must have.

So us children of satan and satan himself have been created simply to fill a needed purpose - that purpose also created by god. Might I ask what that purpose is?

That they are robots are your oppinion, you don't see what is happening behind the surface. You don't see backstage.

I don't see an argument against us being robots given your last statement - that we were created, and had to be created to fulfill a purpose - we're needed merely to function as a purpose in the greater scheme of things, i.e we're robots.

I understand, but there is a need to see farther than our limited perspective.

This excuse rears it's head when the person saying it realises that everything we actually know is ridiculous and makes this god look more like an ass than anything else. Of course every single human is looking at it from a human perspective and can't ever do anything else, so any statement made is redundant, (considering your argument).

There is free will, we all love free will don´t we?

I disagree completely. You are a product of your genetics and environment, you don't really make choices. Say I put 5 pens on the table: red, green, blue, orange and black. You believe when I ask you to choose one that you're choosing, but you need to recognise and look at why you made the 'choice'. Was it really a free choice or is it because, for whatever reason, you are drawn to the colour blue - and thus would 'choose' it every time?

The same holds true in all aspects of life.. You don't choose to like the taste of bacon, you don't choose for your ears to like the sound of The Beatles, you don't choose to like women with large breasts and blonde hair - these are all products of your genetics and environment.

Free will? Not really.

Then why blame god on the evil of the world?

For the same reason you'd blame an author for a messed up book. Let's look at the 'facts'. (biblical/environmental):

1) Man was created in an environment that apparently lacked this evil - even death. But wait.. how did an evil snake get in there? How did an evil snake get the ability to talk?

2) So there's an evil snake that somehow sneaked it's way into a perfect garden. It's not an issue right, man will know he's evil! But wait.. man was given no understanding of good or evil... That could prove to be slightly problematic. If this poor guy has no understanding of good or evil how can he ascertain that god is good and the snake is evil?

3) So there's this evil snake that sneaked it's way into a perfect garden, a man that doesn't understand good and evil and wait! There's a tree that somehow found it's way there that will corrupt mankind forever if he eats from it.

4) Is god slacking? Is he not paying attention? What's going on? Evil snakes, stupid people and a tree that must be eaten from if man is to ever learn that he must not eat from it.

5) All of this could have been avoided if man could tell the difference between good and evil, god had have put up some sensors to detect if an evil entity sneaked it's way into the garden with the express purpose of corrupting man that had no understanding of good or evil, and there wasn't some silly tree that some snake was going to use to corrupt mankind slap bang in the middle of a place where mankind that didn't understand good and evil just so happened to reside.

So ultimately one guy and girl that didn't know good and evil supposedly made a mistake which is fine - give them a 10 year prison sentence and 100 years for the snake. But no.. instead he curses them and yes.. every other human ever to live like it's my fault that Adam and Eve did wrong. Hell, the very second we were born we were guilty. It's not like "let's wait 20 years and see what this human gets upto", no.. you're instantly a sinner before you're even old enough to poo.

Who's to blame? Hmmm...

People would like a world without evil, without death, without unsatisfactory circumstances; can´t you see the stupidity in that?

Certainly, so why bother creating a heaven? Is god an idiot?

What the hell? I don´t know why people are always arguing for the way things are, when you are responsable for your happiness and your world view. You are arguing for the way things are, and if there was an "all loving world" you would be arguing there too...

I don't mind death and evil and whatnot, I am merely pointing out to you who is to blame for it being that way. Humans most certainly did not make it evil etc - as you state in your own post now, god had to do it because apparently that's the only way he could.
 
Being in agreement with The God of the Bible is the correct 'place' to be.

Not at all.
If Yahweh ordered me to kill and slaughter on his behalf I would definetely not do it.
Study the history of Yahweh and you will find he was simply one of many,many Gods worshipped by the Canannites before he was selected by the bronze age hebrew priesthood as their "one true God".
This is historical fact that even hebrew biblical scholars today will concur with.

http://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X

God is God ..and Yahweh is simply one group of peoples "take on God"
Some good fatherly qualities I will admit but afflicted with too many negative ones..pettiness,jelaousy, often irrational violent outbursts,rascist,etc.
These do not reflect Gods' true nature.
Isis (Aset) for instance has many endearing qualities that better reflect what God is than Yahweh. Of all of her mythology I know of no blood soaked or violent actions attributed to her.
 
you cant blame mans disruptive reign on god after all freewill is the life that we know and a pure god cant deny his promise
 
it hasn't been that long, it's only about a year mind you thats long enough, where were you.
 
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