I'm not trying to bash christianity, but...

[Jadebrain_Prime]

In your other thread you attempted to disprove atheism, there is no mention of God or how he came into being.

So, could you please answer my question ?

Okay. (Q) is probably going to start another war of some sorts here, but here goes.

In my theory, God is existent in a way that makes him immune to anything related to the concept of time. That way, his eternal existence would not be self-contradictory. I believe I did say something like that. Now, there's the whole debate of free will which could result from this, but let's not go there now.

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

You don't expect me to hold your hand all day now, do you?

C'mon grease those little grey cells.

awkward

 

[S.A.M.]

awkward

Just take a deep deep deeeeeeeeep breath till it feels really really painful, then let it go.

Believe me, its as easy as that.

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

Just take a deep deep deeeeeeeeep breath till it feels really really painful, then let it go.

Believe me, its as easy as that.

Okay, now what?

 

[Enmos]

Okay. (Q) is probably going to start another war of some sorts here, but here goes.

In my theory, God is existent in a way that makes him immune to anything related to the concept of time. That way, his eternal existence would not be self-contradictory. I believe I did say something like that. Now, there's the whole debate of free will which could result from this, but let's not go there now.

Thank you Rokkon

Ok, for arguments sake lets say something can exist outside of time.

1.) Following your theory the same could be said about the universe, time would then simply be a property of the universe.

2.) If God indeed exists outside of time that still doesnt explain how he came into being. See your own argument that something cant come from nothing.

3.) Although God is placed outside of time he will still be part of the universe, because the universe is by definition all there is. So then he must have come into existance as part of the universe, or he was the universe first then created the rest of the universe out of nothing...

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

Thank you Rokkon

Ok, for arguments sake lets say something can exist outside of time.

1.) Following your theory the same could be said about the universe, time would then simply be a property of the universe.

2.) If God indeed exists outside of time that still doesnt explain how he came into being. See your own argument that something cant come from nothing.

Regarding the second thing, my theory uses the nature of his existence as a way to justify that he's here without a beginning. Of course, (Q) thinks that's ridiculous.

 

[S.A.M.]

Okay, now what?

Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop.

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop.

The beginning and end of what?

 

[S.A.M.]

The beginning and end of what?

You choose.

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

:huh:

 

[Enmos]

Regarding the second thing, my theory uses the nature of his existence as a way to justify that he's here without a beginning. Of course, (Q) thinks that's ridiculous.

But why then are you rejecting that the universe didnt have a beginning ?

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

But why then are you rejecting that the universe didnt have a beginning ?

Because the universe is in time, which, considering the other scientifically proven facts (mostly that we all know we go forward through time), doesn't allow the same type of justification as God has.

 

[Enmos]

Because the universe is in time, which, considering the other scientifically proven facts (mostly that we all know we go forward through time), doesn't allow the same type of justification as God has.

Did you read my first point ?
And i added a third too btw

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

Did you read my first point ?
And i added a third too btw

I don't quite get the first point, and the third point is understandable, considering my lack of emphasis on what I mean by universe. In other words, God isn't really a part of the universe like that.

 

[Jadebrain_Prime]

Sorry, but I have to go for now, and I probably won't be back til tomorrow.

 

[Enmos]

I don't quite get the first point, and the third point is understandable, considering my lack of emphasis on what I mean by universe. In other words, God isn't really a part of the universe like that.

As you comfortably make up God exists outside of time i thought id make up the universe does too. Your own theory allows for that since you didnt show in any way how it would be probable that God exists outside of time.

I think youre reasoning backwards. First assuming God always was then making up the rules in your own head to allow that.

I dont believe any of the three points i made; i was just going by your kind of reasoning.
What i meant with point 1 is that time is a product of the universe, which means anything inside the universe follows time while the universe itself does not. You see if you start talking about anything being outside the universe (which is illogical in itself) there can consequently be something inside the universe. Which makes the universe nothing more then a container.

 

[Enmos]

Furthermore, i thought God created heaven and earth and all that in 6 days and rested the seventh day. It sure sounds like he is INSIDE time to me.

 

[Benauld]

First of all, atheism is not a religion. It is a LACK of religion.

Couldn't agree with you more...

IMO, this is a big problem with Theism. It binds their identity so tightly to the delusion that attacking the delusion is often perceived as a personal life / identity threatening attack.

Agreed CC. Religion creates dependence, as if it were a physical crutch. Take that away, however slowly, and they end up flat on their faces! Personally, I pity them not being able to comprehend life any other way... for me it would be like being trapped.

 

[(Q)]

What a load of crap. If I address your values and principles, thats exactly what I am doing, addressing YOUR values and principles; its hardly an objective evaluation to be pondered in the third person.

So, you have no values or principles you can call your own? Your religion completely defines YOUR values and principles?

If so, then the values and principles in question are NOT yours, but that of the religion.

Therefore, they are completely fair game to ponder, evaluate and criticize without anyone getting their panties in a knot.

If a stand were to be made of my criticism, let the one being criticized step forward and face the music.

That would be your god.

 

[S.A.M.]

So, you have no values or principles you can call your own? Your religion completely defines YOUR values and principles?

If so, then the values and principles in question are NOT yours, but that of the religion.

Therefore, they are completely fair game to ponder, evaluate and criticize without anyone getting their panties in a knot.

If a stand were to be made of my criticism, let the one being criticized step forward and face the music.

That would be your god.

Do your WORST!!! I am NOT slitting my wrists!!! :bawl: