If you were to pray to God...?

[Hapsburg]

Quick question. If you were to pray to God, would it be to ask for forgiveness, ask for favors, or give thanks for what you have?

Well, with the ethic of reciprocity that governs my religion, the latter two go hand in hand. Favors are followed by thanks, and so it goes in a cycle.
Forgiveness requires something to be forgiven for, and I don't believe in such things. At least not in the sense of things that the gods would be concerned about.

 

[Bowser]

Well, with the ethic of reciprocity that governs my religion, the latter two go hand in hand. Favors are followed by thanks, and so it goes in a cycle.
Forgiveness requires something to be forgiven for, and I don't believe in such things. At least not in the sense of things that the gods would be concerned about.

Our problems are trivial, for sure.

How do you see yourself, Hapsburg...meat or spirit?

 

[James R]

Quick question. If you were to pray to God, would it be to ask for forgiveness, ask for favors, or give thanks for what you have?

Are those the only allowed options?

As Musika rightly points out, religion conditions its followers to expect very little from God. Why is that?

I mean, God, being all powerful and all that, could grant you eternal life, could end all human suffering in a jiffy, could do away with poverty and need for all people everywhere, could give us all the powers of demi-gods. But nobody asks for that stuff - or at least nobody expects God to deliver on any of that.

Some people ask God to prolong their lives - cure their cancer, for example. "Miraculous" remission from cancer and other diseases is sometimes put forward as evidence of God, in fact. But no amputee who asks God to restore their lost limb ever has his prayers answered. Why is that? Does God favour the cancer-sufferers and ignore the amputees?

If the expectation, in general, is that asking favors of God will be fruitless, then it seems pointless to do so.

So, should one ask for forgiveness? That would imply that you've done something to injure or insult God in some way that requires his forgiveness. Since the idea of causing injury to an omnipotent being is ludicrous, it must be about the insult. So, we require God's forgiveness because we do things that God doesn't approve of, and we need the approval of God because ... why? To get a reward? To get into heaven? But then we're back to asking for favors.

Should we give thanks for what we have, then? Did God give us what we have, so we ought to thank him? Being omnipotent and all, it must have required minimal effort for God to give us what we have, if he did indeed give it to us. If I drop sugar on the ground and an ant eats it, should the ant pray to me to give thanks?

Should we thank God that he is allowing us to have a life in the first place? We had no say in that. If God did us a favor by allowing us to live, then should we be thankful? Is having lived better than never having lived? How are we to compare the two? It's not like life is all beer and skittles. Maybe never living is better, for all we know. Should we thank God for his arbitrary decisions?

 

[Musika]

Are those the only allowed options?

As Musika rightly points out, religion conditions its followers to expect very little from God. Why is that?

Because there is very little that we desire that changes our lives in any meaningful manner.

I mean, God, being all powerful and all that, could grant you eternal life,

According to many religious traditions, you already have it.

could end all human suffering in a jiffy,

Really?
What would this solution look like?

could do away with poverty and need for all people everywhere,

Given that suicide seems endemic to high GDP countries, this picture you offer appears to lack a certain completeness.

could give us all the powers of demi-gods.

Actually you could describe the allocation of power bereft of considerations of qualification as the number one problem of our post industrial civilization. Havinb a handful of nutcases with power seems to threaten us on so many fronts. Having an entire civilization of such walking time bombs would be far from ideal.

But nobody asks for that stuff - or at least nobody expects God to deliver on any of that.

Its also worth noting that no one much thinks about the ramifications of receiving such stuff, too.

Some people ask God to prolong their lives - cure their cancer, for example. "Miraculous" remission from cancer and other diseases is sometimes put forward as evidence of God, in fact. But no amputee who asks God to restore their lost limb ever has his prayers answered. Why is that? Does God favour the cancer-sufferers and ignore the amputees?

Even people with limbs or without cancer come to grief as they come into contact with existence, which works its inevitable magic on the mind and body.

 

[origin]

Some people ask God to prolong their lives - cure their cancer, for example. "Miraculous" remission from cancer and other diseases is sometimes put forward as evidence of God, in fact. But no amputee who asks God to restore their lost limb ever has his prayers answered. Why is that? Does God favour the cancer-sufferers and ignore the amputees?

OK, that was pretty humorous....

 

[cluelusshusbund]

"could end all human suffering in a jiffy"

Really?
What would this solution look like?

It woud look like heaven.!!!
Or does heaven include sufferin.???

 

[Musika]

It woud look like heaven.!!!
Or does heaven include sufferin.???

Then it begs questions of what a world without prisons would look like other than a world that requires prisons, if it involved a population that included violent car jackers, etc.

 

[Bowser]

Are those the only allowed options?

If there is something else you would say to God, I would be interested to read it.

I read your post. I have no answers for you. As we had discussed elsewhere, life is imperfect. That's just the way it is. Should it be fixed? I don't know.

I watched a video that made a statement I thought interesting. Perhaps arrogance is assuming other people are unhappy, based on our perception of happiness.

 

[spidergoat]

As Musika rightly points out, religion conditions its followers to expect very little from God. Why is that?

Because he delivers nothing.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Then it begs questions of what a world without prisons would look like other than a world that requires prisons, if it involved a population that included violent car jackers, etc.

God coud make heaven on earth... no need for prisons... or is ther a need for prisons in heaven.???

 

[Musika]

God coud make heaven on earth... no need for prisons... or is ther a need for prisons in heaven.???

So what would a violent car jacker's version of heaven look like?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

So what would a violent car jacker's version of heaven look like?

Just like any other violent sinner who was saved by God an alowed into heaven.!!!

 

[river]

If there is something else you would say to God, I would be interested to read it.

I read your post. I have no answers for you. As we had discussed elsewhere, life is imperfect. That's just the way it is. Should it be fixed? I don't know.

I watched a video that made a statement I thought interesting. Perhaps arrogance is assuming other people are unhappy, based on our perception of happiness.

what I would say to god , abramhamic god is this , Is Humanities survival important to you ?

 

[Musika]

Just like any other violent sinner who was saved by God an alowed into heaven.!!!

Fair enough if you want to say someone died for your sins .... I'm not sure how that resolves the issue of someone still intent on sinning.

 

[kx000]

I use prayer to be calm.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Fair enough if you want to say someone died for your sins .... I'm not sure how that resolves the issue of someone still intent on sinning.

Once a sinner always a sinner... or do people who are in heaven no longer have a desire to sin.???

 

[river]

I use prayer to be calm.

fair enough

but I also use Reason

 

[Musika]

Once a sinner always a sinner... or do people who are in heaven no longer have a desire to sin.???

One would assume so.

 

[river]

New
cluelusshusbund said: ↑
Once a sinner always a sinner... or do people who are in heaven no longer have a desire to sin.???

One would assume so.

maturity of the soul

 

[James R]

Musika:

Interesting that you ignored half my post, to concentrate on just one part. But never mind.

Because there is very little that we desire that changes our lives in any meaningful manner.

Nonsense. Try telling that to somebody with a terminal illness, or to a child soldier in a war-torn country, for example.

According to many religious traditions, you already have it.

No. Eternal life would mean not dying. Probably you're confusing that with the afterlife that religions promise (but only if you're a good boy).

Really?
What would this solution look like?

Like one with no suffering?

Given that suicide seems endemic to high GDP countries, this picture you offer appears to lack a certain completeness.

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can make you awfully comfortable while you're being miserable." - Clare Boothe Luce.

Actually you could describe the allocation of power bereft of considerations of qualification as the number one problem of our post industrial civilization. Havinb a handful of nutcases with power seems to threaten us on so many fronts. Having an entire civilization of such walking time bombs would be far from ideal.

God could easily fix that, though, couldn't he, if he wanted to? I can think of ways.

Its also worth noting that no one much thinks about the ramifications of receiving such stuff, too.

I wonder if people consider the ramifications when they buy a lottery ticket. If it would be as terrible to win as you say it would be, I guess they'd think twice.

Even people with limbs or without cancer come to grief as they come into contact with existence, which works its inevitable magic on the mind and body.

Nice attempt to dodge point there. I understand why facing it head on might be difficult for you.

So what would a violent car jacker's version of heaven look like?

Whatever it looked like, it couldn't be allowed to infringe on the versions of heaven that potential victims of the violent carjacker might have. That's if God decided to make everybody happy.

A more nuanced argument might be that if violent carjackers were happy in the first place then they wouldn't be violent carjackers. Violent carjacking wouldn't hold the same attraction. See?