If there's no God...

ashura said:
So Norsefire, if you suddenly somehow someway found out for certain tomorrow that God does not exist, there's no heaven/hell etc., you'd have no point of living? You'd just sit there and rot away?
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That would depend; it has likewise to do with the direction this world is headed. No longer can a man go and make himself known and make a name for himself, for the sake of his faction.

Today, we have only policies and procedures, tedious institutions, and countless other nonsense, not Human will.

So I don't know....but I can tell you, I don't like the way the world is headed.
 
Norsefire said:
I've already explained this; not only after death, but the peace of mind, hope, and comfort it brings to society as a whole.

Because of the family aspect
Because of the encouragement of being a good person

It would also create common ground among the people, for them to have that faith and be confident, rather than only fretting constantly about money, drugs, some pointless tv show and that's the world today.


Faith, belief, hope: I think these are beneficial. I don't want to live in a world where people just have no belief, where they just don't care.

Not to mention in my opinion culture would take a big hit; many holidays would take a hit. It'd be boring, and pointless, and consequently I think there would be little point in living.
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Well ,the concept of god is widespread. Now all you need to show is that it makes the world a better place. Just look around you for evidence.

All religions are into money in one way or another. Don't you know that ?


I don't find life boring. Like others I give my life meaning without the need to rely on a big daddy in the sky.
 
Cris said:
Norsefire,

Whatever. It still leaves the theist position as irrational. Do you understand that? Accusing another faction of the same fault does not valiate in any sense your own failures.
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And the atheist; my only point is, why point out that theists are irrational if you yourself are as well?
 
ashura said:
Wait, you don't think that building a better world for ourselves and our children is a higher calling?
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Again, not if it leads to a world that the only thing that matters is as I've already stated.



Equal in what regards? My older brother was born with a defect in his brain that has left him mentally handicapped for life, with the brain/development of a child. Were he and I born equal?
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Not equal in ability, but equal in worth.

I was referring to normal people though (not that your brother is not sorry man). But, people who both CAN do something, and one chooses to be lazy; he is not equal.



I would never want to forcibly remove it. However, if I had the ability to persuade someone to give up religion on their own accord, I'd use it. And even in my America, God is most certainly not everywhere. In certain select parts of the country, absolutely. We've got representatives being elected on platforms that claim homosexuals are worse than terrorism and will destroy the US, a thought process reinforced by years of indoctrination by a book that for some reason is given legitimacy over other fairy tales. But that kind of person would be laughed and scoffed at in a different part of the country.

Recent polling data shows that religion is slowly but surely losing it's grip on Americans.
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And that's a good thing? Again, you'll soon see the massive impacts
 
Norsefire said:
That would depend; it has likewise to do with the direction this world is headed. No longer can a man go and make himself known and make a name for himself, for the sake of his faction.

Today, we have only policies and procedures, tedious institutions, and countless other nonsense, not Human will.

So I don't know....but I can tell you, I don't like the way the world is headed.
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I don't know what you're talking about. My faction is me, and my family. I can live for their sake. I will grow old with these policies and procedures, these tedious institutions and countless other nonsense to make life for those who raised me as best as it can possibly be, and also to prepare for when I'll have a family of my own. I don't need the idea of a supernatural creator to feel these things, or to live for these things.
 
Norsefire said:
Again, not if it leads to a world that the only thing that matters is as I've already stated.
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And I've replied in a seperate post why I disagree.

Not equal in ability, but equal in worth.

I was referring to normal people though (not that your brother is not sorry man). But, people who both CAN do something, and one chooses to be lazy; he is not equal.
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So then we can agree that your original statement is false. Not all people are created equal.

And that's a good thing? Again, you'll soon see the massive impacts
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I think so. But I'm one of those people who doesn't give religion as much credit as others. I don't give it credit for the atrocities or for the good deeds. I feel as if chances are, without religion, history would still have had roughly the same amount of good and bad when it comes to human actions.
 
Norsefire, what qualities of the universe can only be explained by an intelligent creator?
 
ashura said:
I don't know what you're talking about. My faction is me, and my family. I can live for their sake. I will grow old with these policies and procedures, these tedious institutions and countless other nonsense to make life for those who raised me as best as it can possibly be, and also to prepare for when I'll have a family of my own. I don't need the idea of a supernatural creator to feel these things, or to live for these things.
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Whatever. I just think it's a big mistake, you're removing alot of that hope and common ground AND effectively, well, destrying a ton of culture


And what about your country? Don't you want to lead your country to victory and conquest, RATHER THAN stupidass institutions?
 
Norsefire said:
Whatever. I just think it's a big mistake, you're removing alot of that hope and common ground AND effectively, well, destrying a ton of culture


And what about your country? Don't you want to lead your country to victory and conquest, RATHER THAN stupidass institutions?
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Victory and conquest over what?
 
We don't need religion to have culture. Also, monotheism deliberately destroyed the culture that existed previously.
 
Norsefire said:
Whatever. I just think it's a big mistake, you're removing alot of that hope and common ground AND effectively, well, destrying a ton of culture

And what about your country? Don't you want to lead your country to victory and conquest, RATHER THAN stupidass institutions?
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Honestly, I find it sad that you think you'd be hopeless without religion, or that you'd lose your common ground with your fellow human beings.

And what the hell does religion have to do with leading a country to victory and conquest? :bugeye: Victory and conquest over what and in what sense? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about with this.
 
ashura said:
And I've replied in a seperate post why I disagree.
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No, because people would have no limits. While they CAN be good, there is no guarantee that they WILL be any more good than they will be some porn addicted moronic idiots



So then we can agree that your original statement is false. Not all people are created equal.
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That is the statement I was disproving; it's from the Constitution not me.

I think so. But I'm one of those people who doesn't give religion as much credit as others. I don't give it credit for the atrocities or for the good deeds. I feel as if chances are, without religion, history would still have had roughly the same amount of good and bad when it comes to human actions.
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I disagree; many of the things, such as culture and tradition and celebration and holiday, have come from religion. That's the aspect I don't think society should lose, and there is less drawback in moderate faith within society than pure atheism.
 
Norsefire said:
None can ONLY, but that doesn't mean that just because there doesn't NEED to be, that there isn't.
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The only reason you would need religion as an explanation is if no other explanations were adequate. I do not blame Galileo for believing in God, because at the time it was needed to explain alot of things.
 
ashura said:
Honestly, I find it sad that you think you'd be hopeless without religion.

And what the hell does religion have to do with leading a country to victory and conquest? :bugeye: Victory and conquest over what and in what sense? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about with this.
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I am agnostic; I am saying that for society as a whole, that hope and common ground and overall happiness and faith, is more beneficial than a dull world.


Nothing, BUT do you believe a man can still do what he could've done a thousand years ago with a nation?
Today all people care about is the beaurucracy, and it's disgusting.
 
spidergoat said:
We don't need religion to have culture. Also, monotheism deliberately destroyed the culture that existed previously.
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Just as atheism would destry modern day cullture (most of it)

But it would be culture less because there is little to form culture! Most culture is centered around

1) patriotism
2) faith
3) that sort
 
Norsefire said:
No, because people would have no limits. While they CAN be good, there is no guarantee that they WILL be any more good than they will be some porn addicted moronic idiots.
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No limits towards what? If anything, you have to look both ways. This means the potential for goodness from human beings is limitless.

I disagree; many of the things, such as culture and tradition and celebration and holiday, have come from religion. That's the aspect I don't think society should lose, and there is less drawback in moderate faith within society than pure atheism.
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Like spidergoat said, you can have culture without religion. For example, I'm not religous at all, but I still enjoy celebrating Christmas. And then you have secular holidays like Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, etc.
 
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