If there's no God...

Nonsense. Religion is the opposite of ambiguity, of mystery. Religion says it knows what it's all about. Religion tells you how to live, and it inhibits much of life experience. We cannot move on as a species until we give it up (voluntarily of course). If there's no God, then there are no limits.
 
spidergoat said:
Nonsense. Religion is the opposite of ambiguity, of mystery. Religion says it knows what it's all about. Religion tells you how to live, and it inhibits much of life experience. We cannot move on as a species until we give it up (voluntarily of course). If there's no God, then there are no limits.
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When I say "mysery" I mean, that in "faith"; faith in a higher calling, therefore creating a path in which one can be embraced and cultivated.

Perhaps I shouldnt' have said "mystery"?


Religion does not tell you HOW to live so to speak, but rather it does set certain limits and goals, that ultimately enhance a society.

And what would be "moving on"? Again, just money, do drugs, media all day, don't care about anything else?

That isn't moving on.
 
What if human beings are the only "higher" calling? What if we must acheive immortality for ourselves and not wait for the pie in the sky. I don't know why you keep diminishing the importance of drugs and media, they are the emergence of God-like qualities in the present. Religion does not represent the full extent of what we call spirituality. It's only a tiny slice of how spirituality is practiced.
 
shichimenshyo said:
Why?
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Unlimited benefits could come at the cost of common morality or any sort of loyalty; in other words, these benfits could be brought about by greed or other immorality.

And likewise that there is unlimited good (as there is in faith), there can be unlimited corruption.
 
spidergoat said:
What if human beings are the only "higher" calling? What if we must acheive immortality for ourselves and not wait for the pie in the sky. I don't know why you keep diminishing the importance of drugs and media, they are the emergence of God-like qualities in the present. Religion does not represent the full extent of what we call spirituality. It's only a tiny slice of how spirituality is practiced.
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That could work if we believe ourselves divine and a higher force; however, the base concepts from Abrhamic faith, for instance, has to be mantained; it would be a shame to lose it!


I am emphasizing the direction the world is taking. Today people are worthless in that all they care about is money and media; where is there a man in the US trying to seeek greatness for his countrY?
 
What if there is no difference between us and the devine? Thinking you are something lower could be preventing you from realizing your full potential.

So you think not caring, not being inspired by life, is a result of not believing in religion? I disagree.
 
laladopi said:
well unlike atheists, people with divine beliefs are directed to spread the word of god to those that experience doubt.
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M*W: You are young yet. How do you know that people with "divine belief" are directed to "spread the word of god to those that experience doubt."

How can you be sure that those "who experience doubt" are not on the right track?

I, myself, was a devout xian once, but I found the truth that it was a false assumption.

You're still young yet. Xianity is false. I spread the "word of god" the whole time I was a xian. What did it prove? Nada. Xianity is false. It pulls innocent people into it's lairs. Why don't you get back to sciforums when you're an adult?
 
spidergoat said:
What if there is no difference between us and the devine? Thinking you are something lower could be preventing you from realizing your full potential.

So you think not caring, not being inspired by life, is a result of not believing in religion? I disagree.
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No, it's a result of having no sort of faith whatsoever; I simply find religion to be the strongest form of faith.

Not to mention, as I've already stated, the massive aspects that religion holds within society; removing it would completely change how the world is, and it just isn't worth that loss.
Instead, having a moderate form of faith, for the benefit of both the individual and the society, seems like the best choice. Spidergoat don't you have Jewish relatives?



@Medicine Women, you can't know what IS the right track until you know if there is a God. For all we know, the religious may be right, or the atheists may be right........but you know what? Until you die, you simply cannot speak as if you KNOW.

However, that being said, I do believe being faithful, and having the assets given by faith, is better than being an atheist and having only the cold, cruel world, with no will to make it better. And yes, atheists can certainly TRY, but the problem is I have rarely seen many attempt to. And yet, I see plenty of Church organizations attempting to aid the poor, or the children, or the whatever.
 
Norsefire said:
No, it's a result of having no sort of faith whatsoever; I simply find religion to be the strongest form of faith.

Not to mention, as I've already stated, the massive aspects that religion holds within society; removing it would completely change how the world is, and it just isn't worth that loss.
Instead, having a moderate form of faith, for the benefit of both the individual and the society, seems like the best choice. Spidergoat don't you have Jewish relatives?



@Medicine Women, you can't know what IS the right track until you know if there is a God. For all we know, the religious may be right, or the atheists may be right........but you know what? Until you die, you simply cannot speak as if you KNOW.

However, that being said, I do believe being faithful, and having the assets given by faith, is better than being an atheist and having only the cold, cruel world, with no will to make it better. And yes, atheists can certainly TRY, but the problem is I have rarely seen many attempt to. And yet, I see plenty of Church organizations attempting to aid the poor, or the children, or the whatever.
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What redeeming qualities do you find in faith? Faith - meaning, to me, belief without evidence - seems to be the most worthless quality one could have.
 
redwards said:
What redeeming qualities do you find in faith? Faith - meaning, to me, belief without evidence - seems to be the most worthless quality one could have.
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I touched on this earlier. People today want "rational certainty". This is why many people today won't get married... they want this rational certainty. They aren't willing to take a risk. The same applies to a relationship with God.
 
ggazoo said:
I touched on this earlier. People today want "rational certainty". This is why many people today won't get married... they want this rational certainty. They aren't willing to take a risk. The same applies to a relationship with God.
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Absolutely not true. I don't have certainty about anything, but I do want a reason to consider a thing, and I will absolutely weigh something on its merits, and on its probability. If I were to believe anything anyone said to me, with no evidence to support its being true, then I would necessarily be convinced of all manner of contradicting absurdities. If not evidence, what reason would I have to differentiate between these things?
 
Norsefire said:
Spidergoat don't you have Jewish relatives?
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Yes, almost all of them are Jewish. I am the least religious, but perhaps the most concerned with spiritual matters. It was my interest in philosophical subjects that led me to question religious assumptions, led me to read more about Buddhism, Taoism, and Atheism. I think atheism is the natural outcome of spiritual development.
 
Norsefire said:
@Medicine Women, you can't know what IS the right track until you know if there is a God. For all we know, the religious may be right, or the atheists may be right...but you know what? Until you die, you simply cannot speak as if you KNOW.
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M*W: I was a christian for many years before I evolved as an atheist. Then I believed, but now I don't. It was a very gradual experience deconverting. I am more content being an atheist that I ever was as a christian. This is the right track for me. It's not the right track for people who need to have a crutch. That's what religion is for.

However, that being said, I do believe being faithful, and having the assets given by faith, is better than being an atheist and having only the cold, cruel world, with no will to make it better. And yes, atheists can certainly TRY, but the problem is I have rarely seen many attempt to. And yet, I see plenty of Church organizations attempting to aid the poor, or the children, or the whatever.
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M*W: Theists have the misconception that atheism leaves us in a "cold, cruel world," but this not so. Contrary to your belief that we have no "will," this is totally wrong! Atheists have plenty of "will," and we have no "crutch."

I would guess that atheists don't go around proclaiming their atheism like the religious do. There are a lot of things we have faith in, science most importantly.

I think you are under the assumption that atheists are anti-social or lack humanitarianism. This is a wrong assumption. I could say the same thing about Muslims. I don't recall every seeing Muslims doing humanitarian work... but then, I've never looked.

I can't speak for other atheists, but my world is neither "cold" nor "cruel." In fact, it's pretty nice place where no dogma or deities are needed.
 
spiderquote said:
Yes, almost all of them are Jewish. I am the least religious, but perhaps the most concerned with spiritual matters. It was my interest in philosophical subjects that led me to question religious assumptions, led me to read more about Buddhism, Taoism, and Atheism. I think atheism is the natural outcome of spiritual development.
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When Norsefire thinks of atheism, it isn't as an outcome of spiritual interests, it is simply the default. For him it describes someone who just doesn't care about questioning anything, about researching the history of religion, or reading anything philosophical. I think an interest in religion is only the first step.
 
For him, this disbelief isn't a considered position, but a product of simply not thinking about it at all.
 
spidergoat said:
For him, this disbelief isn't a considered position, but a product of simply not thinking about it at all.
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Again, I would agree with that as a default. I disbelieve in the idea that the core of the planet is a giant serpent - it's never occurred to me.
 
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