If there is a Hell, I WANT to be there.

[wynn]

You're an irresponsible fool.
And I say that in all seriousness.

God doesn't make "irresponsible fools."

Aaq sometimes acts irresponsibly or like a fool, but this is not who he is.

 

[wynn]

No amount of discussion on a public forum will ever bring you closer to the divine, nor separate those who have made that connection. So why beat a horse that can't be resurrected through no will of your own?

Which brings us back to your parents.

Aaq is still relatively young. He is having a crisis of faith ...

 

[aaqucnaona]

Aaq is still relatively young. He is having a crisis of faith ...

Actually my faith has been trampled and mauled and butchered and boiled and then vaporised in a nuclear holocaust. Its not a crisis of faith, for crying out loud. I have taken various stances on the espitemology, ontology and importance of religion and God. My faith will not return, if it ever will, it will be due to the natural consequence of my discovery of reasonable beyond doubt reason/evidence/proof of God or religious concepts.

 

[aaqucnaona]

God doesn't make "irresponsible fools."

Aaq sometimes acts irresponsibly or like a fool, but this is not who he is.

Allow me to slightly change the direction of this thread -
When I am acting like a irresponsible fool, am I not, for that time, really an actual irresponsible fool?

 

[wynn]

Allow me to slightly change the direction of this thread -
When I am acting like a irresponsible fool, am I not, for that time, really an actual irresponsible fool?

No, you're just acting like one.
You may temprarily identify yourself as one, too, but that doesn't mean that this is who you really are.

 

[wynn]

Actually my faith has been trampled and mauled and butchered and boiled and then vaporised in a nuclear holocaust. Its not a crisis of faith, for crying out loud. I have taken various stances on the espitemology, ontology and importance of religion and God. My faith will not return, if it ever will, it will be due to the natural consequence of my discovery of reasonable beyond doubt reason/evidence/proof of God or religious concepts.

"Crisis of faith" is a term, and it is in no way limited to Christianity or any other particular religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_faith


Also check out this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fowler's_stages_of_faith_development

 

[aaqucnaona]

No, you're just acting like one.
You may temprarily identify yourself as one, too, but that doesn't mean that this is who you really are.

How do you tell who you really are? IMO, you can only describe HOW you are in a given time frame.

 

[wynn]

You can describe your intentions and your actions.

 

[Balerion]

You can describe your intentions and your actions.

So then your actions are who you are. You've gone and contradicted yourself again, wynn.

 

[wynn]

So then your actions are who you are. You've gone and contradicted yourself again, wynn.

Think of the most stupid, most uncharitable interpretation of what I said, and then insist that this is what I meant, right?

 

[Balerion]

Think of the most stupid, most uncharitable interpretation of what I said, and then insist that this is what I meant, right?

Let's review:

When I am acting like a irresponsible fool, am I not, for that time, really an actual irresponsible fool?

No, you're just acting like one.
You may temprarily identify yourself as one, too, but that doesn't mean that this is who you really are.

How do you tell who you really are? IMO, you can only describe HOW you are in a given time frame.

You can describe your intentions and your actions.

Are you going to pretend you didn't say it now? I'm curious what troll tactics you'll employ to wiggle free from admitting you contradicted yourself.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jan, atleast acknowledge me doing something that most* theists never do - accepting a mistake. I apologied, retracted my OP and practically bent over backwards in thanking you for do your job as a conversational partner.

*FYI, I dont include you in this. SAM, however, might be.

What would you like me to say? Thanks?


Is getting my acknowledgement worth stuff?


You gotta admit though, the essense of the thread is silly.


jan.

 

[aaqucnaona]

What would you like me to say? Thanks?

How about, 'retraction accepted'? I mean, come on - I retract my OP based on your reply, something, as simple as "Ok", would be fine. How do I know you even read that or acknowledged it?

Is getting my acknowledgement worth stuff?

Kinda. Mostly I wanted you to know that I agreed to your point and in return wished to be aware of your reaction to that.

You gotta admit though, the essense of the thread is silly.

Yes, quite a bit silly. Its not really fitting for a place like sciforums.

 

[Balerion]

How about, 'retraction accepted'? I mean, come on - I retract my OP based on your reply, something, as simple as "Ok", would be fine. How do I know you even read that or acknowledged it?



Kinda. Mostly I wanted you to know that I agreed to your point and in return wished to be aware of your reaction to that.



Yes, quite a bit silly. Its not really fitting for a place like sciforums.

You're too smart to be falling at Jan's feet. Jan's a troll, you're a quality (if quirky) poster.

 

[wynn]

Yes, quite a bit silly. Its not really fitting for a place like sciforums.

I don't think so.
Obviously, there is something troubling you, and you don't know yet how to put it into words directly, so you address it indirectly.

 

[aaqucnaona]

You're too smart to be falling at Jan's feet. Jan's a troll, you're a quality (if quirky) poster.

I am not. But as a rationalist, pragmatism and sceptic, I am obligated by the burden of rejoinder to accept, argue or leave. In this case I accepted, my point may be correct, tell you what, I will bring this up again, this time nice and proper; but the OP was full of logical fallacies and generalisations, appeal to emotion, etc. I accept where I am wrong and I punch puppies, kick kittens and shoot fish in a barrel when presented with a stupid argument - I cant do one without the other. I have spend the last two months throwing stones on the glass house of religion, and it has become quite battered in the last decade, but - when a stone comes my way, I am not the one to cover my window. I let it break, that the person for doing so and put a better one in place - scientism, putting my money where my mouth is, intellectual integrity and honesty - many reasons caused me to do what I did.

Btw, Thx for the complement.

 

[Balerion]

I am not. But as a rationalist, pragmatism and sceptic, I am obligated by the burden of rejoinder to accept, argue or leave. In this case I accepted, my point may be correct, tell you what, I will bring this up again, this time nice and proper; but the OP was full of logical fallacies and generalisations, appeal to emotion, etc. I accept where I am wrong and I punch puppies, kick kittens and shoot fish in a barrel when presented with a stupid argument - I cant do one without the other. I have spend the last two months throwing stones on the glass house of religion, and it has become quite battered in the last decade, but - when a stone comes my way, I am not the one to cover my window. I let it break, that the person for doing so and put a better one in place - scientism, putting my money where my mouth is, intellectual integrity and honesty - many reasons caused me to do what I did.

Btw, Thx for the complement.

But when you were presented with actual reasons why the OP was flawed, you fought tooth and nail. Then Jan walks in and calls you an idiot, and you not only fold, but heap praise upon him for making such astute observations.

I mean, are you kidding me?

 

[aaqucnaona]

I don't think so.

Save that for when the second version of the issues adressed in this thread comes. No, really - this thread began on a poor OP, I dont except much useful conversation to come from it.

Obviously, there is something troubling you,

Yes there is -
I am 5'9.5 and 17, I am working hard to touch 6 feet.
I dont have a gf, last one was almost 2 years ago.
My filmmaking and animation diploma has just began the largest and most complex software in the 3d animation pipeline.
My sleep schedule could do better.
My studies outside my diploma have been very poor in the last few weeks.
And of course, like all teens, there is the damn acne.

and you don't know yet how to put it into words directly, so you address it indirectly.

I just did. I know whats wrong and am working to set it right. However, there is no God shaped hole in my life, if thats what you are suggesting. Yes, I am still defragging my mind after my deconversion, but I am not in a crisis.

 

[wynn]

However, there is no God shaped hole in my life, if thats what you are suggesting.

No, this is not what I am suggesting.

Yes, I am still defragging my mind after my deconversion, but I am not in a crisis.

Do you think that posting the amount you do here, your very screen name and what it means for you, the topics you discuss -
really are not indicative of a crisis?

You may be in a kind of shock, and thus out of touch with how you feel - so to you, it might not feel like a crisis at all.


Here's the definition of "crisis":

cri·sis
   [krahy-sis] Show IPA noun, plural -ses  [-seez] Show IPA, adjective
noun

1. a stage in a sequence of events at which the trend of all future events, especially for better or for worse, is determined; turning point.

2. a condition of instability or danger, as in social, economic, political, or international affairs, leading to a decisive change.

3. a dramatic emotional or circumstantial upheaval in a person's life.

4. Medicine/Medical .
a. the point in the course of a serious disease at which a decisive change occurs, leading either to recovery or to death.
b. the change itself.

5. the point in a play or story at which hostile elements are most tensely opposed to each other.


This fits your situation, doesn't it?

 

[aaqucnaona]

No, this is not what I am suggesting.

Then what are you suggesting?

Do you think that posting the amount you do here,

I love discussions. The frustration of lack of intelligent, informed discussions after my deconversion is one of the reasons I post this much. And I really love this place.

your very screen name and what it means for you,

My screen name is a relic of my new age years and an account name on yahoo answers. Thats all it means to me. And who cannot like penguins with guns?

the topics you discuss -

Biology, which is my strong subject outside my career studies and religion, which is important in context of my recent deconversion.

really are not indicative of a crisis?

You may be in a kind of shock, and thus out of touch with how you feel - so to you, it might not feel like a crisis at all.

Ok, agreed to definitions 1 to 3, but things have not been better than this in a long time - this is really a great time of my life.