i wonder...

[Lori_7]

You know that in science music is occasionally used for "test patterning", mainly because Mathematics is usually referred to as a universal language and music is fundamentally mathematical. (even if musicians themselves don't actually do applied mathematics).

Also music isn't stuck with a language barrier, it doesn't matter if the output is done by one or other national as the results will be similar if not the absolute same.

I guess I'm saying Crunchy, what you hear isn't necessarily a bi-product of competing hemispheres, like the medical profession would have you believe, but could well be something a lot more sophisticated.

It's really down to what part you play in the world or of course what part people would have you play. Of course you can dismiss that and crawl back into the protective bubble of the human condition, or perhaps you could question it further. (That's where the Scientist emerges.)

purrr...

i wouldn't discount the human condition entirely though. i wouldn't see why our mental mechanics couldn't predisposition us, or even sometimes cause or allow us, to experience very real and meaningful things, that some other people can't.

 

[Lori_7]

in contrast, terminology like "brain glitch" and "out of sync" don't scream anything scientific or empirical at all, if that condition can't be identified and described (better than that).

to crunchy and dywyddyr...did these experiences prompt you to go to the doctor to investigate what might be going on biologically?

the stuff i was testifying to when going through my experience prompted my parents to ask me to have a cat scan of my brain. i did, and it was normal.

 

[Anarcho Union]

i saw a thread regarding parapsychology and mental illness, and i'm aware of some opinions, regarding an explanation of paranormal events, made by people on this board.

several years ago, i went through a very intense paranormal experience. one that i describe as spiritual in nature. i was 37 when this happened to me. up until that time, and going through it, i was as sane as anyone, and i have a lifetime to prove that. i actually think i dealt with it really well...considering.

it was very isolating, and frustrating. and it damn near drove me insane trying to deal with it...trying to reconcile it...alone. because if you don't live through it, you can not understand. i had tons of family and friends who really loved me. and it's because of them, that i had to take an objective look at my behavior and change it.

i had a conversation with my mother on the way to a funeral one evening, and i proposed that if the insane were to take an objective look at their lives, and in comparison with other people around them, surely they would realize that their behavior was not constructive, beneficial, or for all intents and purposes, right. and my mother looked at me like i was insane.

so this is what i wonder...

i wonder if it is those who can not and will not reconcile paranormal experiences who end up chained to hospital beds?

I believe in supernatural events. I believe in both demonic stalking and posession as well as both physical and psychological attacks. Because its happend to me. Its been happening to me and happens about 4 to 6 times a week since I was about 7. Wether hearing strange noises to be thrown on the ground. Its something that I think most people have happen to them but block it out or dis credit it because they fear and do not understand it. I believe that there are many cases that people who are demonicaly possesed are mistakenly consedered to have psychosis. And that some people can devolpe many different psychological dieases and illnesses because of tramitic expresiences.

 

[Lori_7]

Hardly. What bit did you see as a cry for help of any sort?
I clearly stated (as I have in the past) that



Not at all: I'm operating as a normal human and experiencing (actually experienced would be more accurate - they were in the past) "aberrations" within the norm without assigning any significant meaning to them.
Which, unfortunately is not what the crackpots do.
The human brain is subject to numerous "glitches", I accept them as such rather than considering them to be "paranormal phenomena".

in regards to "crackpots", why do you think that assigning meaning to experience is crazy?

 

[Anarcho Union]

No response for me?
Suuuuucks

 

[Lori_7]

I believe in supernatural events. I believe in both demonic stalking and posession as well as both physical and psychological attacks. Because its happend to me. Its been happening to me and happens about 4 to 6 times a week since I was about 7. Wether hearing strange noises to be thrown on the ground. Its something that I think most people have happen to them but block it out or dis credit it because they fear and do not understand it. I believe that there are many cases that people who are demonicaly possesed are mistakenly consedered to have psychosis. And that some people can devolpe many different psychological dieases and illnesses because of tramitic expresiences.

yeah, i agree with you. do you feel helpless against these experiences? would you think there might be a way to control them? is there any way to fight back? do you see any meaning in them? and what has this done to you in a personal sense? in regards to development and how you live your life...your perception?

 

[Lori_7]

No response for me?
Suuuuucks

hey you,

 

[Anarcho Union]

yeah, i agree with you. do you feel helpless against these experiences? would you think there might be a way to control them? is there any way to fight back? do you see any meaning in them? and what has this done to you in a personal sense? in regards to development and how you live your life...your perception?

No I do not. I believe in Jesus Christ and God as much as I do in Satan and fallen angels (demons.) The last thing you want to do is try to control them, these are more powerful forces than we can fathem. Call out to Jesus is the best way in my view. They end as soon as I do. Sometimes I believe that it is a way that God is trying to get your attention, using the concept that"if I can show you the dark it may help prove to you that there is a light." Sometimes its Satan trying to scare you. Sometimes its for other reasons.
Its made me closer to God and more educated on demonology and psycholigy. I've also become very decesored to fear and worry.

 

[Anarcho Union]

hey you,

:b.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Are you a musician?

Nope.

And how do you know what's going on in your brain?

Because I understand how schizophrenia works.

From what I read about your experience, the cause is unknown.

That would be incorrect; however, it is not important. What is important is noting the following:

* There is no external source of the music/sound. This can be verified by using an audio recorder.
* The music/sound is hallucinatory. This can be verified by going into areas with wildly differing accoustics and noting that the music/sound doesn't change accordingly.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I guess I'm saying Crunchy, what you hear isn't necessarily a bi-product of competing hemispheres, like the medical profession would have you believe, but could well be something a lot more sophisticated.

I don't think its a bizarre mutation beyond existing mutations in the human population. The experience is consistent with schizophrenia with the exception of the nature of the hallucinations. The majority of schizophrenia hallucinations are voices; however, some people get other kinds of hallucination (music/sound is documented to be one of those kinds).

It's really down to what part you play in the world or of course what part people would have you play.

I don't see why that is even relevant but... ok.

Of course you can dismiss that and crawl back into the protective bubble of the human condition, or perhaps you could question it further. (That's where the Scientist emerges.)

Well the "scientist" component says "hey, this is hallucination". As to exploring the exact mechnaics of my particular hallucinations with my particular brain, I don't hold enough interest to change careers to pursue neurology.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

in contrast, terminology like "brain glitch" and "out of sync" don't scream anything scientific or empirical at all, if that condition can't be identified and described (better than that).

While I can't expand on Dywydder's use of "brain glitch", "out of sync" is a very accurate term to describe a brain affected by schizophrenia. For someone unfamiliar with the mechanics, it might seem a little too abstract/uninformative. To expand on it a little, a schizophrenic brain doesn't operate with consistently timed electrical pulses that a non-schizophrenic brain does. By anaology it's like having a radio that is slighly off-station.

to crunchy and dywyddyr...did these experiences prompt you to go to the doctor to investigate what might be going on biologically?

Yep. I was asked how long I have had the experiences, if the experiences have interfered with my life in any way, and if they have gotten "worse" in any way.

The answers were "Since I was little", "No", and "No". He then recommended me to a psychologist. After evaluation my doctor gave me the final results. He said that I am mentally healthy and that if the hallucinations don't bother me then I have nothing to worry about.

the stuff i was testifying to when going through my experience prompted my parents to ask me to have a cat scan of my brain. i did, and it was normal.

CT scans can only detect physical abnormalities. For example, if you have schizophrenia because of brain chemistry, a CT scan wont be able to detect anything.

 

[Dywyddyr]

in contrast, terminology like "brain glitch" and "out of sync" don't scream anything scientific or empirical at all, if that condition can't be identified and described (better than that).

Oh you're making assumptions again.
I didn't say, or imply, that they can't be identified better than that. What I did was give my wording (and I'm neither a fully-trained psychologist nor a neurologist).

to crunchy and dywyddyr...did these experiences prompt you to go to the doctor to investigate what might be going on biologically?

No. I felt no need.

in regards to "crackpots", why do you think that assigning meaning to experience is crazy?

You failed to read again. I didn't say assigning meaning makes them a crackpot, I said "significant meaning". I.e. considering it to be a message from god &c...

Its made me closer to God and more educated on demonology and psycholigy. I've also become very decesored to fear and worry.

Well one of those subjects is valid in the real world, the other isn't.

 

[Lori_7]

While I can't expand on Dywydder's use of "brain glitch", "out of sync" is a very accurate term to describe a brain affected by schizophrenia. For someone unfamiliar with the mechanics, it might seem a little too abstract/uninformative. To expand on it a little, a schizophrenic brain doesn't operate with consistently timed electrical pulses that a non-schizophrenic brain does. By anaology it's like having a radio that is slighly off-station.



Yep. I was asked how long I have had the experiences, if the experiences have interfered with my life in any way, and if they have gotten "worse" in any way.

The answers were "Since I was little", "No", and "No". He then recommended me to a psychologist. After evaluation my doctor gave me the final results. He said that I am mentally healthy and that if the hallucinations don't bother me then I have nothing to worry about.



CT scans can only detect physical abnormalities. For example, if you have schizophrenia because of brain chemistry, a CT scan wont be able to detect anything.

i'm confused. at first you're describing symptoms of schizophrenia, and then you say that you're diagnosed mentally healthy. so, are you diagnosed schizophrenic or not? i assume there is a way to test the timing of these electrical impulses so a proper diagnosis can be made?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

i'm confused. at first you're describing symptoms of schizophrenia, and then you say that you're diagnosed mentally healthy. so, are you diagnosed schizophrenic or not?

A clear "yes" to a schizophrenia diagnosis wasn't possible because I have so few symptoms (audio-hallucination only); however, I was evaluated as being mentally healthy nonetheless. I suspect that I have a very mild form of schizophrenia, but apparently mild versions can be difficult to positively diagnose.

i assume there is a way to test the timing of these electrical impulses so a proper diagnosis can be made?

The clinical research that resulted in that particular discovery hasn't produced any tools that doctors can use for diagnostic purposes (at least not to my knowledge). Other researchers have found minute brain structure size differences (ex. smaller hippocompus and larger ventricles) when observing the brains of identical twins (one with schizophrenia and one without). Other research has shown people with shizoprenia have duplications and / or deletions of genetic material in their genes. There have been other discoveries as well. All of them combined will probably lead to better objective diagnostic tools (and possibly cures) in the future. But we're not there yet.

 

[Stryder]

Well the "scientist" component says "hey, this is hallucination". As to exploring the exact mechanics of my particular hallucinations with my particular brain, I don't hold enough interest to change careers to pursue neurology.

I wouldn't dream of suggesting a sudden career change, however to me the subject is an interesting one because I look at it from a "Transhumanist" perspective. My beliefs will seem unusual to the current Psychiatry community because there consensus was formulated on observation without the understanding that technology could play a vital role.

How can I put it without it sounding as odd as it probably will sound?!?. I reason that every person on this planet could have a symbiotic intelligence, partially "organic" merged with artificial intelligence. The reason I say this is because one of the main concerns that every person has, is their own mortality.

What ways are their to "cheat death" or prolong life? Well obviously there's a lot of medical research into that area, however it's all to Mary Shelley for me with organ transplantation etc.

Afterall the nature of organic systems is usually to breakdown organically over time, so trying to fend off what is inevitable is, for lack of a finer description... "pointless".

So lets say Scientists go for the grail and decide to extend our lives by moving us to a cybernetic future. This is great for the kids of those that make the equipment, but it's a little unfair to put loads of work in and not actually get anything yourself out of it, after all it's about "mortality", whats the point in martyring a lifetime of work for someone else.

This is why I don't think psychiatrists get it, such systems would indeed be "retroactive". This means that a future technology is applied in the here and now, a regular grandfathers paradox. Like any paradox however it too would suffer a fluctuating state until it's either identified as being the overall goal or denied by those that either fear it or don't understand it. (A Wavefunction collapse if you will.)

I would go into more detail but to most of you, you'll either not be interested, won't understand or have other agenda's that you'd prefer to fill, so I won't waste any more of peoples time on it.

 

[wynn]

i've simply had plenty of conversations with people on this forum, who are so tied to their beliefs (seemingly egotistically and arrogantly), that they are not open-minded at all regarding experiences that they have never had, and that other people like me, testify to. and i think that's weird. and i wonder, if those people, who so adamantly label anyone who testifies to a paranormal experience as a liar or insane, actually had a paranormal experience themselves.

I think discussions about such topics are psychologically and philosophically very complex.

For example, I, in othe other hand, wouldn't expect that anyone would want to talk, on a public forum, to a bunch of strangers, about what they felt were "paranormal experiences".

Everyone could be right, given the parameters they individually operate from. It's just that usually, we don't know all those parameters.

Someone said that the basis for all communication is misunderstanding.
If we would understand eachother perfectly from the beginning on, there would, paradoxically, be little or no communication.

you make a good point here. i guess insanity is relative. i think that it's insane to continue doing something that you know is wrong, detrimental, destructive. we all do that to some degree. i do.

I think there are always good reasons for why people engage in what appears like destructive behaviors.
And that it is impossible to just give them up, even when one sees they are destructive.

I also do not think one can "reconcile" such experiences on one's own, nor simply with the "support" of "loved" ones.

with what then?

With superior knowledge.

Left to ourselves, we are limited to our own experiences, the accounts of experiences of others, and to logical reasoning. We see, on a daily basis, how this kind of knowledge cannot truly satisfy our desire to understand.

It is only a knowledge that comes from a superior source that can.

actually, i think the only difference between people consists of their experience, and their degree of open-mindedness. and i think those two attributes are correlated.

It is hard to be open-minded if you're not sure whether it is worth it.

"Objective" and "healthy" according to whose standards?

society's ultimately. we're all born into a construct that determines how we live for the most part.

Society is relative, it changes. As such, it cannot give ultimate guidance.
Being normal by the standards of an abnormal society means to be abnormal.

 

[wynn]

i've simply had plenty of conversations with people on this forum, who are so tied to their beliefs (seemingly egotistically and arrogantly), that they are not open-minded at all regarding experiences that they have never had, and that other people like me, testify to. and i think that's weird. and i wonder, if those people, who so adamantly label anyone who testifies to a paranormal experience as a liar or insane, actually had a paranormal experience themselves.

As far as I know, you do not go to church, nor are you a member of a religious community.

If this is indeed the case, I would suggest you check out some churches and temples, of different religious traditions.

I think it would make for an interesting and useful experience for you, as you could witness first-hand how nuanced the discussion about "paranormal topics" is even among those people who nominally have the same or similar "paranormal experiences" as yourself.

 

[Lori_7]

No I do not. I believe in Jesus Christ and God as much as I do in Satan and fallen angels (demons.) The last thing you want to do is try to control them, these are more powerful forces than we can fathem. Call out to Jesus is the best way in my view. They end as soon as I do. Sometimes I believe that it is a way that God is trying to get your attention, using the concept that"if I can show you the dark it may help prove to you that there is a light." Sometimes its Satan trying to scare you. Sometimes its for other reasons.
Its made me closer to God and more educated on demonology and psycholigy. I've also become very decesored to fear and worry.

it's great that you're closer to god, have increased knowledge about such things, and are not afraid. have you ever thought that you're being prepared for something? toughened up for a reason?

do you know that you can command these beings in the name of jesus? i was shown this in a lucid awake dream once, and i've commanded plenty. would you be able to make them cease entirely do you think? have you ever tried?

 

[Lori_7]

Nope.



Because I understand how schizophrenia works.



That would be incorrect; however, it is not important. What is important is noting the following:

* There is no external source of the music/sound. This can be verified by using an audio recorder.
* The music/sound is hallucinatory. This can be verified by going into areas with wildly differing accoustics and noting that the music/sound doesn't change accordingly.

have you ever felt inclined to write the music down or record it? play it? to learn how?

also, is this a selective thing? selective schizophrenia? is there such a thing?