i wonder...

[Crunchy Cat]

i observe that everyone is hard-wired to be destructive to some degree.

Some are far more constent at it as you probably have observed as well.

i'm trying to understand the benefit of being adamant and close-minded toward an experience one has never had.

That's really subjective and ambiguous. Can you maybe provide an example of what you mean?

if because of your own ideals and experiences, you were to think you were either hallucinating or schizophrenic, what would you do?

You asked the perfect person for this one. I am one of those "lucky" individuals whom have audio hallucination. What I do about them is simply recognize them for what they are.

why do you suspect that?

Simply because all objective evidence supports it and none contradicts it.

do you see the difference between your response, and the response of danny g?

Yes. The difference is a result of knowledge (i.e. I am far more knowledgable than Danny).

 

[wynn]

what does that say about those who attest to paranormal experiences, and are able to make objective, healthy decisions about their lives?

What on earth are "objective, healthy decisions about their lives"?

"Objective" and "healthy" according to whose standards?

 

[wynn]

i had a conversation with my mother on the way to a funeral one evening, and i proposed that if the insane were to take an objective look at their lives, and in comparison with other people around them, surely they would realize that their behavior was not constructive, beneficial, or for all intents and purposes, right. and my mother looked at me like i was insane.

You seem to think that "the other people around them" are all sane, normal, good and productive. This is what Western psychology and many people assume too.

But if the majority of people truly is so sane, normal, good and productive, then how come the world has come into such a crisis?

Most people around me and you eat meat, for example. Do you think that their eating meat is constructive, beneficial, and for all intents and purposes, right?

i wonder if it is those who can not and will not reconcile paranormal experiences who end up chained to hospital beds?

Yes, this could be the case.

I also do not think one can "reconcile" such experiences on one's own, nor simply with the "support" of "loved" ones.


Actually, Lori, from what you say at the forums, I have gotten the impression that you are torn between thinking that it is only you who is crazy and that everyone else is sane and well, and thinking that you are the only one who is sane and well and everyone else is crazy.

 

[wynn]

secondly, to my knowledge to date, there has never been a beneficial outcome from me attempting to describe my experience to anyone. like i said, and i do not mean to patronize in any way, if you don't live through it, you can not understand. but, i honestly believe that an open mind and humble heart invites knowledge. because, if you think you've got the answer already, and you're prideful about that, there is just no capacity for learning.

with that said, looking back, i can see that in some ways, i was prepared for what happened to me. then again, it seems like nothing could have prepared me for what happened to me. i already believed in god because of experience. i had also offered myself up to help, and to not be afraid to help, some people, again, because of experience.

in a nutshell, i believe that a manifestation of the holy spirit is taking place on this earth right now that is unprecedented. i swear to god, i felt like noah going through this, and i know i'm not the only one. thank god, i've been privy to a lot of verification and substantiation, albeit from people i don't know.

the experience involved lucid dreams, astral projection (not on my part as i have no idea how to do that), channeling, and the sensation and observation of myself and my immediate environment being manipulated by something i could not see. i received biblical prophecy revelation that i still do not understand from a logistical point of view. i do understand that what happened to me is a part of something much bigger than i am, and that is important. and even though i don't understand it entirely or logistically, it was very meaningful, and rational, and the experience ultimately benefited me personally. it opened up my mind, humbled me, and made me stronger than i ever thought i could be.

What do you want? A medal?

If you are so damn open-minded, humbled and stronger than you ever thought you could be, if you are so sure about what you have experienced: Then what validation do you need from others?

If you are sure to the point of seeing yourself fit to declare who deserves eternal damnation - eternal damnation, Lori - that what does it matter to you what anyone else thinks, unless of course you are either not so sure about your presumed certainty after all, or you just want to manipulate others?

 

[Bebelina]

Dywyddyr, is this a cry for help? Are you having experiences that are going against everything you used to believe was real?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Dywyddyr, is this a cry for help?

Hardly. What bit did you see as a cry for help of any sort?
I clearly stated (as I have in the past) that

it gets filed under "Weird shit that can't be explained at the moment, but may be worth investigating if it occurs again".

Are you having experiences that are going against everything you used to believe was real?

Not at all: I'm operating as a normal human and experiencing (actually experienced would be more accurate - they were in the past) "aberrations" within the norm without assigning any significant meaning to them.
Which, unfortunately is not what the crackpots do.
The human brain is subject to numerous "glitches", I accept them as such rather than considering them to be "paranormal phenomena".

 

[Bebelina]

Would you like to tell us about what you experienced?

 

[Lori_7]

What do you want? A medal?

If you are so damn open-minded, humbled and stronger than you ever thought you could be, if you are so sure about what you have experienced: Then what validation do you need from others?

If you are sure to the point of seeing yourself fit to declare who deserves eternal damnation - eternal damnation, Lori - that what does it matter to you what anyone else thinks, unless of course you are either not so sure about your presumed certainty after all, or you just want to manipulate others?

i don't want a medal, or validation, or to manipulate.

i've simply had plenty of conversations with people on this forum, who are so tied to their beliefs (seemingly egotistically and arrogantly), that they are not open-minded at all regarding experiences that they have never had, and that other people like me, testify to. and i think that's weird. and i wonder, if those people, who so adamantly label anyone who testifies to a paranormal experience as a liar or insane, actually had a paranormal experience themselves.

 

[Lori_7]

You seem to think that "the other people around them" are all sane, normal, good and productive. This is what Western psychology and many people assume too.

But if the majority of people truly is so sane, normal, good and productive, then how come the world has come into such a crisis?

Most people around me and you eat meat, for example. Do you think that their eating meat is constructive, beneficial, and for all intents and purposes, right?

you make a good point here. i guess insanity is relative. i think that it's insane to continue doing something that you know is wrong, detrimental, destructive. we all do that to some degree. i do.

I also do not think one can "reconcile" such experiences on one's own, nor simply with the "support" of "loved" ones.

with what then?

Actually, Lori, from what you say at the forums, I have gotten the impression that you are torn between thinking that it is only you who is crazy and that everyone else is sane and well, and thinking that you are the only one who is sane and well and everyone else is crazy.

actually, i think the only difference between people consists of their experience, and their degree of open-mindedness. and i think those two attributes are correlated.

 

[Lori_7]

What on earth are "objective, healthy decisions about their lives"?

"Objective" and "healthy" according to whose standards?

society's ultimately. we're all born into a construct that determines how we live for the most part.

 

[Lori_7]

Would you like to tell us about what you experienced?

not really. i summed up the highlights in a previous post to danny g.

my point is, for example...

i have never in my life seen a ufo or had any abduction experience. but people all over the place testify to having these experience. and i would never, ever, in a million years even consider labeling these people as insane, or as liars, or having hallucinations, just because i might have my ego firmly grounded in the ideal that there is no such thing.

i don't understand people who do that.

edit...my bad, i thought you were asking me. sorry.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Would you like to tell us about what you experienced?

Why?
Are you a neurologist or trained psychologist?
What would you learn from my mental glitches?

 

[Dywyddyr]

i've simply had plenty of conversations with people on this forum, who are so tied to their beliefs (seemingly egotistically and arrogantly), that they are not open-minded at all regarding experiences that they have never had, and that other people like me, testify to. and i think that's weird.

Yet because you have decided your experience was "genuine" (i.e. an external not internal phenomenon) you are (seemingly egotistically and arrogantly) tied to the belief that is actually was an external experience. And therefore the "close-mindedness" ALSO applies to you.

and i wonder, if those people, who so adamantly label anyone who testifies to a paranormal experience as a liar or insane, actually had a paranormal experience themselves.

One more time: you have been informed repeatedly that that is the case.

 

[Bebelina]

Why?
Are you a neurologist or trained psychologist?
What would you learn from my mental glitches?

Out of curiosity.
Partly.
There's something to learn from everything.

 

[Lori_7]

That's really subjective and ambiguous. Can you maybe provide an example of what you mean?

like the ufo/abduction analogy i gave below...

You asked the perfect person for this one. I am one of those "lucky" individuals whom have audio hallucination. What I do about them is simply recognize them for what they are.

what do you hear? what is it caused by? do you hear it with your ears or in your mind? is what you hear meaningful at all?

Simply because all objective evidence supports it and none contradicts it.

that's not true. it just seems that the evidence is given to the individual and not conjured by some preconceived experiment.

Yes. The difference is a result of knowledge (i.e. I am far more knowledgable than Danny).

see what i mean? you don't know that.

 

[Stryder]

There is always people that are going to have a set opinion, this can't be helped. Some will deny any possibility of anything because they live straight forward lives, others will believe anything their mind concocts, others still are unfortunate pawns in a larger manipulation game, they either play their part as a pawn or they attempt to reach the opposite side of the board to elevate.

All in all, we are stuck with our single perspectives and what makes us, us. Which is why to the most part it's seen as ego.

My reasoning for what you might of seen Lori?... Well the likelihood is it's manipulated by external third parties to encourage their "Rapture", but in reality it's a load of horseradishes. By all means you can buy completely into it and you probably will since that will be the easier route than swimming against the current. Just don't let yourself be befouled by "cultist" groups as a forewarning.

 

[Lori_7]

There is always people that are going to have a set opinion, this can't be helped. Some will deny any possibility of anything because they live straight forward lives, others will believe anything their mind concocts, others still are unfortunate pawns in a larger manipulation game, they either play their part as a pawn or they attempt to reach the opposite side of the board to elevate.

All in all, we are stuck with our single perspectives and what makes us, us. Which is why to the most part it's seen as ego.

My reasoning for what you might of seen Lori?... Well the likelihood is it's manipulated by external third parties to encourage their "Rapture", but in reality it's a load of horseradishes. By all means you can buy completely into it and you probably will since that will be the easier route than swimming against the current. Just don't let yourself be befouled by "cultist" groups as a forewarning.

Wow. I have never had anyone call it like that. A very unusual take and on the money, in a way.
To elaborate, I was encouraged to help people who were in some deep spiritual shit, and I wanted to. I had no idea what that would involve and it was hard on me going through it. I know the encouragement was from something good, and what I did was out of love and a commitment to god and christ. The 3rd parties involved are a multitude of humans who I do not know. But they have a way of expressing validation of what I experienced.

I'm open minded but devout to some ideologies at the same time. Regardless of 3rd party intentions, beliefs, lifestyles, and reactions, I feel good about my intentions, and I'm glad I did what I did.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

like the ufo/abduction analogy i gave below...

People are abducted all the time. I see no reason why they cant be transported on aircraft. Of course most abductees are talking about being abducted by alien species. From there its a matter of following the objective evidence (whether that leads to a sapient species from another planet or a psychological phenomenon).

what do you hear?

Music and sound.

what is it caused by?

My brain being out of sync with itself.

do you hear it with your ears or in your mind?

Ears.

is what you hear meaningful at all?

Some of the music is pretty good.

that's not true. it just seems that the evidence is given to the individual and not conjured by some preconceived experiment.

Ultimately for something to be true, the concept held in a persons mind (regardless of how it got there) must match reality (i.e. what is external to their mind).

see what i mean? you don't know that.

I do. Reading his statement I see to very explicit things:

1) He wants to believe.
2) He doesn't have enough objective knowledge to understand the contraints that reality places on people.

Of course I am the one making the claim in this case and I would be happy to demonstrate it (pending his agreement).

 

[Lori_7]

People are abducted all the time. I see no reason why they cant be transported on aircraft. Of course most abductees are talking about being abducted by alien species. From there its a matter of following the objective evidence (whether that leads to a sapient species from another planet or a psychological phenomenon).




Music and sound.



My brain being out of sync with itself.



Ears.



Some of the music is pretty good.



Ultimately for something to be true, the concept held in a persons mind (regardless of how it got there) must match reality (i.e. what is external to their mind).



I do. Reading his statement I see to very explicit things:

1) He wants to believe.
2) He doesn't have enough objective knowledge to understand the contraints that reality places on people.

Of course I am the one making the claim in this case and I would be happy to demonstrate it (pending his agreement).

Are you a musician?

And how do you know what's going on in your brain? From what I read about your experience, the cause is unknown.

 

[Stryder]

In response to: What do you hear as an audio hallucination?
Music and sound.

You know that in science music is occasionally used for "test patterning", mainly because Mathematics is usually referred to as a universal language and music is fundamentally mathematical. (even if musicians themselves don't actually do applied mathematics).

Also music isn't stuck with a language barrier, it doesn't matter if the output is done by one or other national as the results will be similar if not the absolute same.

I guess I'm saying Crunchy, what you hear isn't necessarily a bi-product of competing hemispheres, like the medical profession would have you believe, but could well be something a lot more sophisticated.

It's really down to what part you play in the world or of course what part people would have you play. Of course you can dismiss that and crawl back into the protective bubble of the human condition, or perhaps you could question it further. (That's where the Scientist emerges.)