I am considering brainwashing to fix my son: religious experiment.

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

Jayleew,

Thank you number one, for giving me something semi interesting to respond to, because overall in the years and years I've been in this forum, not much, if anything even infinitesimal has changed. I've yet to see something like this, a real world situation where one of basic reasons for religion existing in the first place can be seen and religion can be employed in similar fashion. But...

Is CHRISTIANITY the ONLY thing that can cure him? Why not create your own "religion" haha. Now THAT would be a good social experiment. I could create one for you?

Buddhism, Hinduism, Utilitarianism, Socialism...theres plenty of epistemological and "moralistic" viewpoints to indoctrinate your child with, and surely I understand that perhaps Christianity is the easiest and the simplest for children to understand (go figure...). But have you considered these other options?

Take Christianity and break it down...down to the basics.

You want him to understand "eternal suffering"? Is he going to care? He's more concerned with the here-and-now it seems, he may be immune to such threats because they're empty and misleading as you are immune to them, correct? Despite him being 9 he isn't necessarily as naive as a 4 yr old. or a believer, haha.

And in all honesty, 9 years old is when I realized Christianity DIDN'T make sense to me. That's when I realized that the things this all powerful being "God" did were somewhat immature? I asked why do people have to go to hell if GOD made them the way they are, if he controls everything and knows what they're going to do before they do it and if they do it because it's God's will for his great plan? My mother couldn't answer...no one can...

Are you going to SHOW your son people in "hell" (prisons, poor living conditions, a lava pit, etc)? Ha, that might be too much as it seems his brain is developed differently than a typical 9 year olds? And perhaps...not enough.

"That's not me!" he might say...

You're right, the time IS now, it's always now, but you don't have to worry about "running out of time", only how hard it gets the more it goes on. The brain does develop further in the adolescent-teenage years, you know? Just because he's doing wild things now doesn't mean he won't stop ever if he doesn't stop now. There were twins in my sister's 3rd grade glass and they were completely and utterly misbehaved, they went to special classes, etc etc etc, but I've seen them since and they're not totally lost to the world, they mostly normal and truly aren't any worse than some of the other kids I've seen who showed NO signs of misbehavior when they were children, but went on to prisons and correction facilities all around the nation by 21.

My best suggestion for you is ask him, and get the psychiatrist (who should have done it already) to find out what he WANTS. Attention? Toys? To rule the world? Leave him alone in a controlled environment that he is not aware is controlled, where no one gives him what he wants until he concedes to THEIR demands, or better yet, give him something every time he listens rather than rejects someone's wishes, positive reinforcement has better results.

I don't know the entire medical history, but if he's on medications, sometimes those are the problems for long term disability verses short term health, which most prescriptions do for their patients: Fix them until the next dose is due...it keeps the revenue band flowing, you know?

But honestly, I don't think Christianity is going to help in the long run. If it's so bad you don't have patience for anything else, then so be it... but I hope it's not THAT bad. You've got time...don't lead him astray because he's developed differently than everyone else, perhaps that is indeed his saving grace?

 

[jayleew]

The fruit of the politically correct athiest way is coming upon you jayleew. Be prepared for a lot more heart ache and suffering as you see your son reach his athiest potential. No moral compass. No moral guidance. As you know in the politically corrected world there are no such thing as morals anymore. Only freedom to be what you want to be and the outcomes of the exercising of that freedom. Your son is "free" prepare to weep.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

OMG, you just scared me out of doing this. If this is how the religious think, then I'd rather have him where he's at. Jappl had some constructive things that might work. You just sit in your hole and wait for your god to come have his way, k?

 

[John99]

I smelled bullshit rigth out of the gate on this one.

 

[jayleew]

Jayleew,

Thank you number one, for giving me something semi interesting to respond to, because overall in the years and years I've been in this forum, not much, if anything even infinitesimal has changed. I've yet to see something like this, a real world situation where one of basic reasons for religion existing in the first place can be seen and religion can be employed in similar fashion. But...

I know what you mean I've been on this thing for years with only over a 1000 posts.

Is CHRISTIANITY the ONLY thing that can cure him?

Clearly, I need to try a couple more things, but this will be plan Z. But, I am on plan X.

I don't know, it still might happen because my wife is excited about going back to church. If I did this though, I'd have to commit to the act till he was of the age to choose for himself, so the child is not too confused. But, I have pause because I am reminded of how religious folks CAN be, as well as another angle I have not yet tried which is the "Team" concept from Jpappl. He might respond if he is punished by being temporarily suspended from our team (his family) when he chooses poorly (over the threshold of normal boy mischief). I don't want to raise the next zealot, whom there is no hope for a real life. I want him grounded, and if he looks up at the sky and wonders the age old question, "I wonder if God exists." Then, he is welcome to pursuit it from a rational view and not bottle up in a bubble of holy protection that is useless to his fellow brothers and sisters who need him.

Buddhism, Hinduism, Utilitarianism, Socialism...theres plenty of epistemological and "moralistic" viewpoints to indoctrinate your child with, and surely I understand that perhaps Christianity is the easiest and the simplest for children to understand (go figure...). But have you considered these other options?

I am fond of Utilitarianism, but he's too young yet to learn that it too much depth.

Are you going to SHOW your son people in "hell" (prisons, poor living conditions, a lava pit, etc)? Ha, that might be too much as it seems his brain is developed differently than a typical 9 year olds? And perhaps...not enough.

I was planning on showing him movies like the Ten Commandments which depicts the power of God. Movies where God was depicted as real. The goal would be to convince him that God exists and that we've been living without him for long enough. If he would believe God is real, then perhaps he would heed its warning and want to learn and do the Christian way of life. I picked Christianity because I am most familiar with it and can pretend to be one. It's not all that different than how I live now, just without the God element.

My best suggestion for you is ask him, and get the psychiatrist (who should have done it already) to find out what he WANTS. Attention? Toys? To rule the world? Leave him alone in a controlled environment that he is not aware is controlled, where no one gives him what he wants until he concedes to THEIR demands, or better yet, give him something every time he listens rather than rejects someone's wishes, positive reinforcement has better results.

He has a psychiatrist and a therapist. The medicine from the psychiatrist helps, but the therapy I question and we've tried a few of them.

I don't know the entire medical history, but if he's on medications, sometimes those are the problems for long term disability verses short term health, which most prescriptions do for their patients: Fix them until the next dose is due...it keeps the revenue band flowing, you know?

But honestly, I don't think Christianity is going to help in the long run. If it's so bad you don't have patience for anything else, then so be it... but I hope it's not THAT bad. You've got time...don't lead him astray because he's developed differently than everyone else, perhaps that is indeed his saving grace?

Thanks, I agree. I'm going to try to back peddle with the wife, but if she holds me to my word, then the experiment will take place to completion. I'll give an update sometime...(within a year).

 

[jayleew]

I smelled bullshit rigth out of the gate on this one.

I said I was considering it, and I might have to do it if the wife holds me to my word. This idea has been festering for a couple months, but we now are at a fork in the road. It may yet come to be that I post "I am brainwashing to fix my son: religious experiment"

Thank you for your input on the concept, it's been helpful to the discussion.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Does God give that freedom of choice...or does secular society give that freedom?

society keeps making laws..so society keeps taking those freedoms away..
do i have a choice about whether i get insurance or not?

 

[NMSquirrel]

It's not an advise. The post is addressed to another member who suggests Jesus is better than any other alternative. Of course it's an outburst, I am a sensible human being.

in that case that post had nothing to contribute.

 

[NMSquirrel]

I don't know, it still might happen because my wife is excited about going back to church.

this is a good reason to attend..you know family harmony,if shes happy im happy..etc..

If I did this though, I'd have to commit to the act till he was of the age to choose for himself, so the child is not too confused. But, I have pause because I am reminded of how religious folks CAN be,

this is why i say do not join the first church you go to..finding a good church home is a struggle..most churches are like that..i would test the churches..share with them some sin you have in your life and see how they react, if they react with offense or condemnation it is not the right church and they will do nothing but judge you..seek out the ones with understanding and good advice,the ones who will accept you for who you are,the ones whos members are not quick to be offended..these churches are few and far between..i have noticed that there is a good chance that you can find these types in the smaller churches..(less than 100 ppl attending)

as well as another angle I have not yet tried which is the "Team" concept from Jpappl. He might respond if he is punished by being temporarily suspended from our team (his family) when he chooses poorly (over the threshold of normal boy mischief).

this is not an option..he must always know he is a part of your family,no matter how bad he messes up..this is the love that a good church will teach..
besides,that is not a reasonable consequence as he knows,you will not kick him out of your family..

with sports it is a different story,i agree with that idea..the only thing i say about it is to be sure to find the right coach/teacher/sensei..as they are human also and susceptible to the pressure of compliance also..IOW find a tough love coach..more concerned with the players than the play..

 

[Stryder]

Some points:
Do you find him bickering with his sister? Or getting into trouble for "retaliating" at things she might of instigated?

When something is broken, is he the obvious choice for the person or party responsible for breaking it? Do you launch into a torrent of angry slurs for his clumsiness or destructiveness?

Does he find the classroom a noisy place? Does he find other kids disruptive in the sense that they actually undermine his own concentration to a subject?

(I ask this because sometimes the seemingly intelligent kids that get behavioural difficulties are actually "struggling", they might suffer a form of dyslexia or even Dyspraxia that causes learning difficulties. You will find they Excel at subjects they are interested in, however they will grow quickly bored of things that don't interest them and will find to attempt to keep up with other kids they require greater concentration.

They might struggle with particular subjects like Languages or in a Dyspraxia cause possibly physical Education. You might find they don't have the same level of skill with their motorskills. A simple test of this is to get the kid to play a game like Streetfighter etc. You can identify if they have the memory capacity and motor function to remember specific combat moves in the game or if they resort to "Button bashing" where all buttons are fumbled cumbersomely.

There is also the entire potential for "Introversion", is the kid left to his own devices? does he have many friends? or does he end up confined to a room playing on a computer or games console for hours at a time? (obviously finding him an interest that he is genuinely interested in and has a club outside of school will likely increase his social capacity while dealing with some of his antisocial behaviour.)

It's often the case that Negative responses don't help his problem, so you've got to look to creating positive responses like praise when he actually does something right (even if it's something small). Support him in his interests and give him positive insentives, this should negate the need to have to resort to Brainwashing or religion.

(Incidentally it's known that hardline religious families can actually cause distress to children either due to their peers not accepting them, taunting them about their families or teaching them the generalised nature of the world. You are best therefore not forcing religion down his neck or you will just force him to behave negatively in response.)

 

[Lori_7]

Of course it's an outburst, I am a sensible human being.

just wanted to point out that the two parts of this sentence, separated by a comma, completely contradict one another. so much for sensibility.

 

[Lori_7]

Because it's fake? Ever dated a girl who was educated in a convent? Your daughter is gonna fuck like a steam train picking up passengers when she realises you lied to her.

She'll fuck anybody she thinks is telling her the truth. Many won't be. She's gonna fuck a load of creeps 'cos you lied to her, dad.

Maybe your lies will turn your son into a rent boy. But hell, they're your kids, so do it, and be sure to tell us how it works out.

I've shagged a few convent educated girls. I think you miss the point.

so i see you've given the ladies an excuse...what's yours?

 

[spidergoat]

The fruit of the politically correct athiest way is coming upon you jayleew. Be prepared for a lot more heart ache and suffering as you see your son reach his athiest potential. No moral compass. No moral guidance. As you know in the politically corrected world there are no such thing as morals anymore. Only freedom to be what you want to be and the outcomes of the exercising of that freedom. Your son is "free" prepare to weep.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

As if Christian children never had a behavoral difficulties. As if Christianity ever stopped people from doing what they wanted to do anyway (raping priests, meth using closeted gay priests, the holocaust).

 

[ejderha]

just wanted to point out that the two parts of this sentence, separated by a comma, completely contradict one another. so much for sensibility.

You should be able to understand how outrageous were your advice then.

I never reacted to any of your other posts -or your fellow kind's- in any other religion threads. The situation and the reason of my reaction is very obvious.
Another obvious thing is that you are intelligent enough to understand what is meant and also weirdly secular enough (in your case it becomes creepy) to get what's going on.

So stop pretending like you don't know what's wrong with your attitude in this thread.

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

so i see you've given the ladies an excuse...what's yours?

Ha in all Honesty, I've found the same type of girls, and they're not the minority, they're the majority because most people are religious in SOME sense. And if you look at priests, and pastors, doing similar things, only with CHILDREN, then I think its safe to say the constant reminder of "sin" and "purity" and most of all SAVIOR, the fact that "well, if you're really bad, and ask for forgiveness, you'll STILL get to go to heaven, so hush child, be "good" and come back here if you waver from that"

Honestly, I hooked up with a girl and she left the next day (Sunday) to go to church, it was a late night for us, obviously, and when I asked her "did you fall asleep in church" not trying to be rude, but literally because I was falling asleep at work, she said "no of course not!" and did not talk to me for a few months after. We are good friends again but now shes back in action, and ten times crazier than she was then, she still goes to church to ask for forgiveness...and I'm sure she feels even BETTER about her life than if she didn't have anything to "request" at all. Because she knows that we are MEANT to sin, its in our blood. YOU can't control it, only Jesus can and God...so ask him to help, and he will help you...you're too weak and inadequate to do it alone, all of humanity is...but YOU have a special tool, it's called faith, and you're forgiven in the worst of times, and rewarded in the best of times. Just like any good placebo...if the shoe fits...

 

[John99]

I said I was considering it, and I might have to do it if the wife holds me to my word. This idea has been festering for a couple months, but we now are at a fork in the road. It may yet come to be that I post "I am brainwashing to fix my son: religious experiment"

Thank you for your input on the concept, it's been helpful to the discussion.

If this is true you dont have time to play games or be indecisive. The kid will see this indecisiveness as a weakness. I gave you advice and you pretty much ignored it. Secondly, kids like you describe below and as i said earlier were put into special ed.

This is what you told us:

I was not here yesterday and I am not sure if you have been aware that your son had some issues on the bus last night. Jimmy Dean (bus supervisor for DeKalb Central) has notified me that your son began to call other students names, pulled hair, kicked bus, hit another student with seat belt and spat on driver.He stated that he was going to kill his family.

Jimmy will be letting us know what the consequences are and I will let you know. He will be put back on HOLD in the classroom for the physical contact. If you have any questions, let me know. Thanks!

Do you honestly think you have a few months? Or you may talking about your own conflicts. Often times people want advice so they create a scenario because it is easier to discuss. What i am getting from you is some conflict you are struggling with and indecision...This is no time to be indecisive and "shit or get off the pot".

 

[Lori_7]

You should be able to understand how outrageous were your advice then.

I never reacted to any of your other posts -or your fellow kind's- in any other religion threads. The situation and the reason of my reaction is very obvious.
Another obvious thing is that you are intelligent enough to understand what is meant and also weirdly secular enough (in your case it becomes creepy) to get what's going on.

So stop pretending like you don't know what's wrong with your attitude in this thread.

the only thing that's wrong with my attitude in this thread is that you don't like it.

the christian philosophy was brought up in the op, and i agree that the philosophy is solid, whether you believe that god exists or not.

i addressed the discrepancy between the philosophy and believing in god with my own testimony. i know from experience (not from a book) that god does exist, so he wouldn't be lying, even if he didn't believe himself.

i recommended what? saying a prayer. could it hurt the situation? no. could it help the situation? perhaps. and then the onslaught of emotional, defensive, abusive bullshit from the atheists. is emotional, defensive, abusive bullshit helpful? no.

 

[Lori_7]

Ha in all Honesty, I've found the same type of girls, and they're not the minority, they're the majority because most people are religious in SOME sense. And if you look at priests, and pastors, doing similar things, only with CHILDREN, then I think its safe to say the constant reminder of "sin" and "purity" and most of all SAVIOR, the fact that "well, if you're really bad, and ask for forgiveness, you'll STILL get to go to heaven, so hush child, be "good" and come back here if you waver from that"

Honestly, I hooked up with a girl and she left the next day (Sunday) to go to church, it was a late night for us, obviously, and when I asked her "did you fall asleep in church" not trying to be rude, but literally because I was falling asleep at work, she said "no of course not!" and did not talk to me for a few months after. We are good friends again but now shes back in action, and ten times crazier than she was then, she still goes to church to ask for forgiveness...and I'm sure she feels even BETTER about her life than if she didn't have anything to "request" at all. Because she knows that we are MEANT to sin, its in our blood. YOU can't control it, only Jesus can and God...so ask him to help, and he will help you...you're too weak and inadequate to do it alone, all of humanity is...but YOU have a special tool, it's called faith, and you're forgiven in the worst of times, and rewarded in the best of times. Just like any good placebo...if the shoe fits...

that's a load of bullshit. you recognize that, and so do i.

 

[Lilalena]

For God's sakes get him off those pills!!!

Your son's behavior seems similar to my nephew's, who has been capable of shocking violence since the age of 2 1/2. He is also genius-level brilliant, and has advanced language and conceptualization skills, spoke in complete sentences from that age, and has a catchphrase : "I want to understand".

He's now 4 yrs old and we've found ways to calm him down - however he is still pretty hyperactive. Some things we learned:

- Never patronize him. He knows when you are not serious / when you're only trying to scare him with ghouls and fairytales.
- He responds surprisingly maturely when you say "I don't know" if you genuinely can't answer a question of his. He starts speculating and wondering along with you.
- He doesn't like being left with nannies and , the more time he spends in direct contact with his parents, the calmer he is.
- Lame threats, the kind parents often make, only trigger violence. He only realizes you are patronizing him.
- You have to explain the TRUTH every time you tell him No.
- he responds better if you talk to him in a whisper / soft tones.

Your son is probably already full of fear of things he cannot understand. On top of that fear and insecurity, he will know that you are only patronizing him with your project to teach him fear of hell. I don't think that your project is going to be a success.

The last thing I will say is :

I really don't think the medication you have him on could help in the long term. What really helps for my nephew is almost all day direct contact with his dad. Playing sports etc. Physical active play.

Now I am sure that is completely impossible if both parents have to work. I'm just saying that -- that is a big part of what has calmed my nephew down. For some reason he needs more attention than other kids. Anything else, any other strategy would only be a poor substitute to having his parents full attention.

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

soooooooo, someone likes to experiment on his kids..why does this sound so fucked up to me?

 

[jayleew]

Do you honestly think you have a few months? Or you may talking about your own conflicts. Often times people want advice so they create a scenario because it is easier to discuss. What i am getting from you is some conflict you are struggling with and indecision...This is no time to be indecisive and "shit or get off the pot".

It is unwise to act in haste without fully grasping the situation. It only has come to a head yesterday, and I have decided to try a different approach for now. I was undecided yesterday because I had to talk with my wife. A worse incident happened today, she has deferred to me, so I have the full authority to make the decision now. I will try a team approach before the experiment. It will take a month or two to see how it works out. I'll post back then.

Again, thank you for your input.

On a side note, she has forsaken God today because of its worthlessness in dealing with situations effectively. It is just as quiet today as the time just before Jesus Christ came when they were crying out and God was silent. A silent God is worthless to solving anything. It's up to the person to take hold of faith in God to find strength. Therefore, it is clear to me now that the strength doesn't come directly from God, but from within, or from other people. God is a source of inspiration, not a being of power. If it exists or not, in its current state, it cannot be relied upon aside from that. Faith in God makes sense in some obscure way as a means to deal with life, as long as you are able to hold it. But, that faith is empty and without any teeth to get you out of any situation.