No starter, either.
I AM an Astrologer!
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No starter, either.
Very wise, Stryder.
Just as your 'Cold Reading Theory' was about to bite the dust.
As for SAM. I'm a man of my word. You'll get a concise but accurate chart analysis some time this week. I'm no quitter.
I'm depending on that.
The question of how astrology might work may be interesting, but it is logically subsequent to the question of whether astrology works.
Perhaps Billy ought to provide some evidence that astrology actually does what it claims. Also, we need to determine what is claimed.
Billy: what is astrology good for? What does it do?
Perhaps Billy ought to provide some evidence that astrology actually does what it claims. Also, we need to determine what is claimed.
Billy: what is astrology good for? What does it do?
It helps draw attention to individuals who are otherwise totally useless in society - and that's all. Period
I'm somewhat chary of using up the stringent limits imposed on me by the diktats of the biased moderator so to be brief....it helps one to be more philosophical about life, aids wisdom and quiet contemplation by teaching that trials are followed by tribulations. It provides a detachment from the tawdry trivialities of modern life and teaches the value of tradition and stoicism.
Our mod has dug a hole for himself by suggesting a 'a lack of evidence' forthcoming.
Since when have 'double blind tests' been deemed unsatisfactory, Stryder?
I'm sure we'd all be delighted to know.
Clearly Billy Chyldyshe is either lying or deluded since the evidence requested by members here has not been provided -the very evidence required by the magnitude of the claim.
Should the evidence be provided (and, doubtless, a future comment by the claimant will include something along the lines of "I've given evidence" with a vague reference to "somewhere in the 18 pages" without being specific), I'll gladly revise my opinion. But until then, Billy Chyldyshe is either a liar or deluded about his claim to be an "astrologer" that is able to perform the feats of divination and paranormal nonsense entailed in that position's job description.
Liar or Deluded. Perhaps a little of both.
Should the evidence be provided (and, doubtless, a future comment by the claimant will include something along the lines of "I've given evidence" with a vague reference to "somewhere in the 18 pages" without being specific), I'll gladly revise my opinion. But until then, Billy Chyldyshe is either a liar or deluded about his claim to be an "astrologer" that is able to perform the feats of divination and paranormal nonsense entailed in that position's job description.
Liar or Deluded. Perhaps a little of both.
I think Billy just answered the question here:
Q: What does astrology do?
A: It provides psychological satisfaction.
Which I would tend to agree is the only objective result of Astrology.
I must object. The insults direct to astrology is very adult in nature and based upon your unsubstantiated claims and intellectually dishonest attempts to shift the burden of proof.
I see no other possibility beyond the fact that you are either a liar or deluded (or a bit of both) since you refuse to evidence your claims. Now, should you provide evidence, I'm willing to revise my position to account for the very unlikely and, thus far, demonstrably false conclusion that you have any "astrological" ability or that "astrology" is a concept that exists beyond fantasy.
You can dismiss the insult as "childish" all you like. But it is anything but. The criticism of your claims are based on your own words and inabilities in this thread. Thus, if the insult is "childish," then it is a reflection on your own incompetence.
I see no other possibility beyond the fact that you are either a liar or deluded (or a bit of both) since you refuse to evidence your claims. Now, should you provide evidence, I'm willing to revise my position to account for the very unlikely and, thus far, demonstrably false conclusion that you have any "astrological" ability or that "astrology" is a concept that exists beyond fantasy.
You can dismiss the insult as "childish" all you like. But it is anything but. The criticism of your claims are based on your own words and inabilities in this thread. Thus, if the insult is "childish," then it is a reflection on your own incompetence.
The question is 'does it work'?
The list of imponderables is a very long one. 'The proof is in the pudding' and so far the sceptics have only shown consistency in running scared.
You proclaimed proudly - and wrongly - that astrology was merely a case of cold reading.
Well we are all awaiting your 'cold readings'...don't hold your breath, folks
As I said.
What we are seeing here is various people squirming on the hook. As I predicted - rightly - when the tables are turned the sceptics cannot back up their case. I'm prepared to present SAM my conclusions by PM if no 'cold readings are provided.
As I said. The theory about Cold reading is rubbish and no better proof could possibly be provided than the total absence of even one attempt..however feeble..from a plethora of so-called 'sceptics'.
Why doesn't flesh-creeper or stryken provide us with a 'Chart' produced by Cold Reading? Where are all the sceptics claiming that 'anyone can make it up by guesswork' - well get guessing..so far its a very poor show, chaps.
Not a sausage.
..we'll give them time..
Right up your alley, then.
Billy:
Is it any use for predicting the future, or determining personality traits, or any of the things we read about in the gossip mags?
Could you please link me to any double-blind tests you know of that support astrology? They will be the first I've seen.
Thanks.
Is it any use for predicting the future, or determining personality traits, or any of the things we read about in the gossip mags?
Could you please link me to any double-blind tests you know of that support astrology? They will be the first I've seen.
Thanks.
Thats actually an interesting post although its still slightly evasive in that I'm always 'begging' for a double blind test on here...the trouble is I'm the only one brave enough to put himself on the line.
I've said previously that I've studied the tests done by James Randi and they're the only ones I can go off and James is a clever trickster. I'm not trolling because in many ways he does a good job and the names are vaguely familar..Derek Ackora?..y'know these mediums who claim to be in touch with the spirit world. Sadly they are the media friendly and on TV. Or as you suggest in gossip mags..although the most serious newpapers have these silly columns, James..as I suspect you know;-)
I'm afraid you can set aside the gossip mags and even the broadsheets although the answer is yes and yes.
As for blind tests..as I said..the tests used by Randi are rigged to use buzzwords (see previous posts) to appeal to the reader that are generally positive. Its a fascinating subject..people don't like to hear about their bad trait..I mean who wants to read that 'they are totally lacking in a sense of humour'
Its all a bit a con by Randi but then even if picks competent astrologers (unlikely) then what people are responding to the tests..as I said..'if you ask someone if they have a good sense of humour?'
..........all of us answer in the affirmative. Its human nature, James.
I've said previously that I've studied the tests done by James Randi and they're the only ones I can go off and James is a clever trickster. I'm not trolling because in many ways he does a good job and the names are vaguely familar..Derek Ackora?..y'know these mediums who claim to be in touch with the spirit world. Sadly they are the media friendly and on TV. Or as you suggest in gossip mags..although the most serious newpapers have these silly columns, James..as I suspect you know;-)
I'm afraid you can set aside the gossip mags and even the broadsheets although the answer is yes and yes.
As for blind tests..as I said..the tests used by Randi are rigged to use buzzwords (see previous posts) to appeal to the reader that are generally positive. Its a fascinating subject..people don't like to hear about their bad trait..I mean who wants to read that 'they are totally lacking in a sense of humour'
Its all a bit a con by Randi but then even if picks competent astrologers (unlikely) then what people are responding to the tests..as I said..'if you ask someone if they have a good sense of humour?'
..........all of us answer in the affirmative. Its human nature, James.
The following is what Billy Quoted on Enmos.
Now something I didn't mention before to Billy was a book that I have gathering dust on my shelf, it's called Planetwise and written by Barbara Hill.
It gives a little intro into astrology chart making and then has a long list of referenced dates from Jan 1st 1930 - Dec 31st 1999 to allow anyone to composite a "Reading".
Each date is given a selection of numbers, each of the numbers is a "Generic"
preportion based upon planetary alignments etc which can be referenced on more than one date (It's not individualistic)
Lets see what Enmos would of had from this book.
May 4th 1977 has the following numbers: 20,170,207,181a,193a
The following is what each number states:
[quote="Planetwise" by Barbara Hill]
20. Sun in Taurus/Moon in Scorpio
A Self-Reliant person, Hard-working and determined.
170. Mercury in Taurus
Hates to be contradicted and is angered when unable to understand something.
207. Jupiter in Gemini
An alert, clever mentality. Up-to-date with news and ideas. Constantly talking, arguing and debating. Versatile, artful, entertaining and persuasive.
181a. Venus in Aries
Social qualities: Objective; impulsive; energetic; dominant; sensual;
Likely to enjoy: astronomy; atheletics; badminton; bird-watching; boxing; chess; climbing; collecting; crosswords; football; golf; intimate relationships; languages; motoring; music; painting; photography; reading; restoration; sailing; shooting; squash; table-tennis; theatre; walking; woodcarving; writing.
193a. Mars in Aries
Career qualities: enterprising; competitive; unconventional; industrious; efficient. (Better suited to self-employment or freelancework)
Suitable careers: actor; architect; builder; butcher; dentist; designer; doctor; explorer; faith healer; film director; fireman; historian; mechanical engineer; painter; philosopher; physiotherapist; property dealer; psychiatrist; psychologist; researcher; soldier; sportsman; surgeon; surveyor; writer.
[/quote]
If I take it upon myself to do other peoples readings, I might or might not quote references that are linked to their actual reading... maybe... just maybe I'll utilise my own numbers to concoct a fictious reading, will they notice however?
Just from the brief glance I've had it suggests someone who works within a group of people and who likes group activities where people have the same interests. I dont mean the internet but in the real world out there.
Thres no rela emphasis on any elemtn so looking elsewhere we see someone who has fixed ideas and is v.loyal. Also someone who if let down, cuts the cord and just moves on. Possible negative traits..well jealously..quite emotional but keeps it hidden.
Erm...Moon in Scorpio suggests your partly interested in this stuff...you like research, unveiling the truth.
BUT..its not much use to me..you quite well balanced actually...ask you wife, gf and so on whats your worse attribute..i'd suggest stubborness.
..
Now something I didn't mention before to Billy was a book that I have gathering dust on my shelf, it's called Planetwise and written by Barbara Hill.
It gives a little intro into astrology chart making and then has a long list of referenced dates from Jan 1st 1930 - Dec 31st 1999 to allow anyone to composite a "Reading".
Each date is given a selection of numbers, each of the numbers is a "Generic"
preportion based upon planetary alignments etc which can be referenced on more than one date (It's not individualistic)
Lets see what Enmos would of had from this book.
May 4th 1977 has the following numbers: 20,170,207,181a,193a
The following is what each number states:
[quote="Planetwise" by Barbara Hill]
20. Sun in Taurus/Moon in Scorpio
A Self-Reliant person, Hard-working and determined.
170. Mercury in Taurus
Hates to be contradicted and is angered when unable to understand something.
207. Jupiter in Gemini
An alert, clever mentality. Up-to-date with news and ideas. Constantly talking, arguing and debating. Versatile, artful, entertaining and persuasive.
181a. Venus in Aries
Social qualities: Objective; impulsive; energetic; dominant; sensual;
Likely to enjoy: astronomy; atheletics; badminton; bird-watching; boxing; chess; climbing; collecting; crosswords; football; golf; intimate relationships; languages; motoring; music; painting; photography; reading; restoration; sailing; shooting; squash; table-tennis; theatre; walking; woodcarving; writing.
193a. Mars in Aries
Career qualities: enterprising; competitive; unconventional; industrious; efficient. (Better suited to self-employment or freelancework)
Suitable careers: actor; architect; builder; butcher; dentist; designer; doctor; explorer; faith healer; film director; fireman; historian; mechanical engineer; painter; philosopher; physiotherapist; property dealer; psychiatrist; psychologist; researcher; soldier; sportsman; surgeon; surveyor; writer.
[/quote]
If I take it upon myself to do other peoples readings, I might or might not quote references that are linked to their actual reading... maybe... just maybe I'll utilise my own numbers to concoct a fictious reading, will they notice however?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
WOW!!! Strider that is uncanny !! Thats totally me lol
Actually this IS better (or rather less wrong) then Billy's.
I caugth myself looking for things that really apply to me and almost forgot all the other garbage.
A neat demonstration Strider
Also, most of the things mentioned are good things that people would want to be associated with.. people end up lying to themselves.
And THAT, people, is the whole trick of astrology!!! I've never ever seen one that said anything like, "You are basically a dishonest person, no one trusts you and you would steal from your own blind grandmother." Never have, never will see that. Simply put, it just lies to people by telling them what they WANT to hear - nothing more than that.
I'm not familiar with the book or author or 'use if numbers'..thats a first because no-one else has used it. Its very basic stuff
Oddly enough I agree with Stryder, its little more than a slight step forward from Sunsign astrology which is equally generalised.
Hopefully Enmos has calmed down a tad, from the rather OTT response. Where it falls down is in the lack of specifics and although parts of it seem reasonable..."20. Sun in Taurus/Moon in Scorpio
A Self-Reliant person, Hard-working and determined"..its far too generalised.
The date of the book gives it away. You really can't compartmentalise, there are numerous other factors to take into account.
In general I agree..I havent had time to google but if I dont recall the name then its likely she's from the soothsaying school. There aren't any really negative traits mentioned etc..its the type of book that possibly women may find entertaining (as with sunsign columns etc)..but something that simply wouldnt exist in an astrologers library.
As I said the most competent astrologers - and equally books - are few and far between.
Oddly enough I agree with Stryder, its little more than a slight step forward from Sunsign astrology which is equally generalised.
Hopefully Enmos has calmed down a tad, from the rather OTT response. Where it falls down is in the lack of specifics and although parts of it seem reasonable..."20. Sun in Taurus/Moon in Scorpio
A Self-Reliant person, Hard-working and determined"..its far too generalised.
The date of the book gives it away. You really can't compartmentalise, there are numerous other factors to take into account.
In general I agree..I havent had time to google but if I dont recall the name then its likely she's from the soothsaying school. There aren't any really negative traits mentioned etc..its the type of book that possibly women may find entertaining (as with sunsign columns etc)..but something that simply wouldnt exist in an astrologers library.
As I said the most competent astrologers - and equally books - are few and far between.
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