I just want to see my chart before you guys drive him away.
Why? You know it will be complete guesswork, don't you?
Or, do you believe in astrology, too?
I AM an Astrologer!
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Why? You know it will be complete guesswork, don't you?
Or, do you believe in astrology, too?
So, if the results are dead on, will that make you a believer?
What if the results are very close?
Relatively close?
Close?
Carl Sagan showed there was no good reason to believe in astrology in his series Cosmos many years ago, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iunr4B4wfDA . I've yet to see anything offered to rebut it.
It's a shame everyone didn't see it; but those who want to believe will, no matter how overwhelming the evidence against it is.
It must have been further on in the episode, but I remember Carl mentioning precession having made the zodiac inaccurate. No worries, here's Bill Nye to do that for us! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQPFoDkGFrU&mode=related&search=
Edit: You've gotta love YouTube! Here's the clip of Randi giving a class of college students their "personal" horoscopes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw&mode=related&search= .
And unintentionally hilarious; this is from one of the YouTube commenters, criticizing Randi for his skepticism -
It's a shame everyone didn't see it; but those who want to believe will, no matter how overwhelming the evidence against it is.
It must have been further on in the episode, but I remember Carl mentioning precession having made the zodiac inaccurate. No worries, here's Bill Nye to do that for us! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQPFoDkGFrU&mode=related&search=
Edit: You've gotta love YouTube! Here's the clip of Randi giving a class of college students their "personal" horoscopes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw&mode=related&search= .
And unintentionally hilarious; this is from one of the YouTube commenters, criticizing Randi for his skepticism -
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Lets just overview this:
You have inaccurate readings as to planetary alignments based upon old mythological uses of planetary meanings. (For instance the symbolism of Mars is based on Roman Mythology even in Astrology, while science of course identifies the planet for what information is available.)
On top of that Astrology only seems to concentrate on just our solar systems content, what of the rest of the universe? Does the rest of the universe not play an intrinsic part?
Obviously the rest of the universe is beyond the finite contained and simplified envisionment of an astrologer. (It makes you wonder if there was an alien race out there, would they have something as equally pseudo-scientific as Astrology in their home solar system?)
Do the planets effect our lives?
Well I'm sure a few UFO hunters have been known to chase Venus and if you are a astronomer and looking for the best time to view a particular planet then obviously it's something that governs your life.
But for Astrology which is pretty much just a sugar-coated psycho-babble to hold any effect over your life would be complete hog wash.
The only instance that Astrology could have effect on life is if it manages to enslave the brainwashed ready-to-believe-anything public into making actions based upon what their stars say about themselves or others they interact with. Without people taking a blind bit of notice about what their psycho-babble "Suggests" their entire pseudo-scientifically constructed house of cards comes crashing down.
You have inaccurate readings as to planetary alignments based upon old mythological uses of planetary meanings. (For instance the symbolism of Mars is based on Roman Mythology even in Astrology, while science of course identifies the planet for what information is available.)
On top of that Astrology only seems to concentrate on just our solar systems content, what of the rest of the universe? Does the rest of the universe not play an intrinsic part?
Obviously the rest of the universe is beyond the finite contained and simplified envisionment of an astrologer. (It makes you wonder if there was an alien race out there, would they have something as equally pseudo-scientific as Astrology in their home solar system?)
Do the planets effect our lives?
Well I'm sure a few UFO hunters have been known to chase Venus and if you are a astronomer and looking for the best time to view a particular planet then obviously it's something that governs your life.
But for Astrology which is pretty much just a sugar-coated psycho-babble to hold any effect over your life would be complete hog wash.
The only instance that Astrology could have effect on life is if it manages to enslave the brainwashed ready-to-believe-anything public into making actions based upon what their stars say about themselves or others they interact with. Without people taking a blind bit of notice about what their psycho-babble "Suggests" their entire pseudo-scientifically constructed house of cards comes crashing down.
Its no different than Dickie Dawkins telling us we're governed by 'memes'. Sadly for him 'memes' are imaginary objects living inside the delusions of many scientists.
When I first joined a forum I was lambasted by scientists fro daring to question Stephen Hawking and co claiming he was on the verge of discovering the 'Theory of Everything'. I was equally showered with insults merely by suggesting that this was most unlikely. Sure enough a year ago even Hawking admitted that he'd been wrong.
The other misunderstanding is that it isn't an exact science anyway. An interpration for someone from a poor family is going to differ from someone who is a part of the Aristocracy. Just as the chart for me and you differs from that of an african immigrant..in some cases mere circusmstance dictates that its a whim of civilisation. No astrological chart is going to help a person born in Ethiopia...but then again neither are 'memes'.
When I first joined a forum I was lambasted by scientists fro daring to question Stephen Hawking and co claiming he was on the verge of discovering the 'Theory of Everything'. I was equally showered with insults merely by suggesting that this was most unlikely. Sure enough a year ago even Hawking admitted that he'd been wrong.
The other misunderstanding is that it isn't an exact science anyway. An interpration for someone from a poor family is going to differ from someone who is a part of the Aristocracy. Just as the chart for me and you differs from that of an african immigrant..in some cases mere circusmstance dictates that its a whim of civilisation. No astrological chart is going to help a person born in Ethiopia...but then again neither are 'memes'.
<< Carl Sagan'scientific writings speculated on the possibility that there might be life on Jupiter, or Venus, or Mars. Even though science constantly gave a negative answer to every question he posed, Sagan would not quit. When it became likely that the entire solar system was void of any intelligence, he felt we had to set our sights to other systems. In retrospect, such enthusiasm might seem childish. >>
I don't think so.
I quite liked Sagans entusiasm just as I do Randi's but as Bob Dylan said 'don;t follow leaders'..and as we know our heroes often have feet of clay. He was wrong.
We has Patrick Moore..he can read a map of the Moon backwards..indeed he drew up a large part of it...his idiotic racist witterings on Politics are absurd.
The conclusion.
Dont mix geekish pseudo-intellectualism with common sense!
I think I could possibly go off on a tangent, SAM.
Looking at the chart I'd suggest there was a major change in your life during a certain period.
My suggestion is that you or I give a few choices of what several months that change took place and then gave a choice to everyone.
That MUST surely qualify as guesswork.
Is there anyone reading this whom the above does NOT apply to?
Right! Once again proving just how worthless astrology is. It relies on such gross generalizations that they fit anyone and everyone. Nothing but lies, smoke and mirrors - no substance at all!
You CC and Read Only have fallen right into the trap.
I'm going to write down 5 different time periods. Sadly they're all around a period when there are lots of changes anyway...which isn't ideal. So here...its guesswork. Get guessing Crunchy and Reedy..
5 different time scales.
1) Summer 1987 to Summer 1988
2) Spring 1988 to Spring 1989
3) Summer 1989 to Summer 1990
4) Summer 1991 to Summer 1992
5) Summer 1993 to Summer 1993
Now first of all forget exams, and the paraphernalia that we ALL go through then and thereafter..this is the first significant change in life.
Any real change has a lasting effect. Its a trial, a period of maybe forced change which isn't necessary positive and probably stressful but like most trials it helps you develop into the person you are now.
I'm making a reasonable assumption that I know which time frame is likely to be accurate.
However..as we know from the arrogant sceptics..its mere guesswork and cold reading. Where this cold reading is from is anyones guess. Do I know you, SAM?
Therefore we'll ask them to choose from the above. You dont say a word..SAM..I'll give my answer either through PM or on here..whatevers best/fair.
And, indeed I cant be fairer than that.
Billy Chyldyshe,
Major changes occur all the time. For instance you go into the supermarket looking for a particular brand of goods to find that particular line of goods has either stopped being made or has been made obsolete by a new line of product. The Corporation for ever alters it's product lines in regards to supply and demand, if the demand is not there it causes the production closure. This then has knock on effects like the people employed on that production line being fired etc.
You could suggest that if you were to take in merchandising and identified the people it effected you could come up with a near "mathematical" way of identifying how something missing from a shop shelf will effect others. You could then probably obscure the understanding by planting a bunch of mumbo-jumbo around it to keep your "Secret recipe" safe, even though the recipe is just for sugar-coating hard cold facts.
Major changes occur all the time. For instance you go into the supermarket looking for a particular brand of goods to find that particular line of goods has either stopped being made or has been made obsolete by a new line of product. The Corporation for ever alters it's product lines in regards to supply and demand, if the demand is not there it causes the production closure. This then has knock on effects like the people employed on that production line being fired etc.
You could suggest that if you were to take in merchandising and identified the people it effected you could come up with a near "mathematical" way of identifying how something missing from a shop shelf will effect others. You could then probably obscure the understanding by planting a bunch of mumbo-jumbo around it to keep your "Secret recipe" safe, even though the recipe is just for sugar-coating hard cold facts.
No one here will be surprised with that, just toss it on the heap of things you've not bothered to explain.
So, who hasn't had a major change in their life during a certain period?
If astrology actually worked, you'd be able to nail the exact dates, the exact events and the exact results, in detail.
Ambiguous and generalized statements usually are.
With that, being this the 400 post in this thread. It's time to lock this one up based upon the 20 page thread rule that I instated from the Mexican DOD thread (Which was longer and equally absurd).
It's very simple that no matter what objects people make, no matter what proof is put forwards the Thread starter is obviously not going to see reason. The reason for this is of course because they don't want to be changed which is fair enough, however it doesn't make any of what they said in defence any less pseudo-scientific.
I would suggest this topic has run its course, however feel free to start another thread on the same subject just don't expect any difference in the overall string of threads relating to it.
It's very simple that no matter what objects people make, no matter what proof is put forwards the Thread starter is obviously not going to see reason. The reason for this is of course because they don't want to be changed which is fair enough, however it doesn't make any of what they said in defence any less pseudo-scientific.
I would suggest this topic has run its course, however feel free to start another thread on the same subject just don't expect any difference in the overall string of threads relating to it.
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