Humans Aren't Perfect

[stray dog]

- all the religions of the world and all of the scientific communities, all agree on the same thing: the Creation/ the Big Bang

- our time spent here on Earth is but a fleeting moments passing,
an experience of being human, living within the garden of nature

- we have been given life, yet we do not know what is ahead of us after death; another type of consciousness is possible;
everything in the universe, including every single human, all born from the creation

-we have learned much, but there is so much more to understand;
our birth is such a mystery, as we are all individuals with unique
minds and emotions; our coming into this world is such a mystery
that our passing from this world is also a mystery; the scientific
evidence is yet to be found, the possibilty is still there.

- we have been given life, perhaps we should live it as if it were
a prelude to something more wonderful

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by daktaklakpak
Claiming "Future does not exist" is same as claiming "God does not exist". Both can't be proved otherwise. The fact that we can't travel through time now does not prove we can't tomorrow. Just like one can't find god does not prove god is fake. Why do you insist to say it's a fact instead of "I don't know?"

Do you mean future exists with its prefixed state, independant of the current state and waiting for us to catch up..? honestly i can't and i won't say "I don't know". unfortunately i know what i'm talking. people talk about time travel forgetting that will tear off cause-effect basis of our universe. don't believe in star trek operas. i suggest you can get experts' opinion in Pysics&Maths forum.

For the time being, to be simplistic, assume you travel to future and you could meet the great grand sons/daughters of you (or anyone whom you know) where their parents are not yet born presently..! does this make any sense to you..? as you seem to talk logically do you expect to see effect before the cause..?

It doesn't matter if god predicts or decides. Since you said future does not exist and exact outcome can still change, then no exact outcome is exact. There is not difference between all the possible outcomes and the exact outcome.

No. there is hell of difference between predicting and deciding. But anyway, as you agreed, there is no difference between all the possible outcomes and exact outcome, as it is subject to change till it happens.

You claimed "Free Will" can change god's decision on the exact outcome. Now please really think about it: what is true "free will"?

Free will, as i percieve, is a gift with which you make God decide your future accordingly. In a way we are responsible for our future.

Why A&E choose satan instead of god? If A&E willed to listen to satan without a reason, then god can't blame A&E.

Free Will puts us directly responsible for our action and its logical. Freedom comes with a cost.

Below is part of my earlier post :

This was not a case of winning in lottery. This was about losing the existing status. In such a situation, however dumb you are - not knowing how it is going to be bad - would you go by your friend's word (not to select a specific ticket) or would you follow a stranger's word to select exactly the same ticket. If you choose the later then you don't deserve to have a friend who was everything to you.

Adams went with a stranger's word despite a warning from their creator. i think, they did not deserve to be with God any more. As a matter of fact, the moment they decided against God to get the fruit , God would have decided not to intervene for they did not deserve to be prevented from going away from Him.

so i think.

If you can show me the reason why A&E picked satan, I can show you what god did wrong in human creation.

Well, since you found fault with God, you have to tell me why A&E picked satan. in addition to what i re-posted just above.

 

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by everneo
Do you mean future exists with its prefixed state, independant of the current state and waiting for us to catch up..? honestly i can't and i won't say "I don't know". unfortunately i know what i'm talking. people talk about time travel forgetting that will tear off cause-effect basis of our universe. don't believe in star trek operas. i suggest you can get experts' opinion in Pysics&Maths forum.

Talking to yourself from the future seems impossible in a single thread time line, but quite possible in a multi-thread time line universe, or parallel universe, or multivese.

For the time being, to be simplistic, assume you travel to future and you could meet the great grand sons/daughters of you (or anyone whom you know) where their parents are not yet born presently..! does this make any sense to you..? as you seem to talk logically do you expect to see effect before the cause..?

It makes sense if there are more than one time lines. And the future of one time line might just be the past of another.

No. there is hell of difference between predicting and deciding. But anyway, as you agreed, there is no difference between all the possible outcomes and exact outcome, as it is subject to change till it happens.

So why do you insist god knew the exact outcome given that there are more than one outcomes and any of them can be the true one?

Free will, as i percieve, is a gift with which you make God decide your future accordingly. In a way we are responsible for our future.

Free Will puts us directly responsible for our action and its logical. Freedom comes with a cost.

Well, since you found fault with God, you have to tell me why A&E picked satan. in addition to what i re-posted just above.

So you think free will means we can think for ourselves? Making a choice based on all inputs? Then what prevents us from making bad choice? The knowledge of good and evil or a warning from god? What make you think a warning from god has more weight over others? Just because it's from god? Why A&E failed to see that? Pride? What is pride? A gift from god or satan? If it's from satan, why there is no prevention to aquire it? If it's from god, then why there is a problem when exercises it? What prevents us from exercising it wrongly?

Can you see? If you can pick a reason why A&E failed god, that is god's design flaw. When we make a decision, we weight all choices base on all avaliable information. If we see no difference in benefit between choice A and B, then we just pick randomly. If this is the case for A&E, do you think god should blame them to make a bad choice? If we see an obvious benefit in A, then we will pick A. If A is indeed a good choice, then everybody is happy. Too bad A&E is not this case. If A is a bad choice, then obviously something is been over sighted. And this over sight is a major design flaw. Why? Because we missed something important yet we failed to notice. If we pick B despite the obvious benefit in A, then this is a suicidial action. That is an even worse flaw than last one. I hope A&E is not this case.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Binary
Perfect is a globally dictated property, attributed to the most suited 'is' to the exacting of the collective structure of a complex whole, such as all the corresponding effected sets or functions within the continuum, in relation to the final appearance of a singularity. Perfect is also an attribute of a nomothetic existence.

Eschew obfuscation.

It is really difficult to tell if you have a valid point or are simply spouting nonsense. I suggest that if you are truly attempting to communicate a cogent position that you use more than two, rather abstractly worded sentences.

~Raithere

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by daktaklakpak
Talking to yourself from the future seems impossible in a single thread time line, but quite possible in a multi-thread time line universe, or parallel universe, or multivese.

It makes sense if there are more than one time lines. And the future of one time line might just be the past of another.

Parallel universe, multiverses are mathematical models and their existance never proved. Time travel is a bad interpretation of these models. Different timelines don't enable time travel. They differ only in rate at which their time, 'proper time', progresses. Once again i suggest get proper meaning from experts, possibly in P&M forum. I don't know how fantasy is better than faith..!

So why do you insist god knew the exact outcome given that there are more than one outcomes and any of them can be the true one?

Which one..? The one, God ultimately decides.

So you think free will means we can think for ourselves?

Yes.

Making a choice based on all inputs? Then what prevents us from making bad choice? The knowledge of good and evil or a warning from god?

What is the difference between knowledge of Good and Knowledge of Bad..

What make you think a warning from god has more weight over others? Just because it's from god?

What/Who are the others ? in what way they are comparable to God ?

Why A&E failed to see that? Pride? What is pride? A gift from god or satan? If it's from satan, why there is no prevention to aquire it? If it's from god, then why there is a problem when exercises it? What prevents us from exercising it wrongly?

what is pride? you tell me.

So, Eating fruit is a matter of pride ? or Pride of satan ?

Can you see? If you can pick a reason why A&E failed god, that is god's design flaw.

I don't know why A&E betrayed God. You can pick any reason and blast God for that flaw in design. I have no objection. Its your opinion.

When we make a decision, we weight all choices base on all avaliable information. If we see no difference in benefit between choice A and B, then we just pick randomly. If this is the case for A&E, do you think god should blame them to make a bad choice?

I already said, A&E could not be so dumb that they could not differentiate between their creator's word and a stranger's word.

If we see an obvious benefit in A, then we will pick A. If A is indeed a good choice, then everybody is happy. Too bad A&E is not this case.

It is too bad indeed. Why they had not done this ?

If A is a bad choice, then obviously something is been over sighted. And this over sight is a major design flaw. Why? Because we missed something important yet we failed to notice.

No. A is not bad case.

If we pick B despite the obvious benefit in A, then this is a suicidial action. That is an even worse flaw than last one. I hope A&E is not this case.

Having free will it is upto them not to do any think as suicidal as screwing God's trust as well as themselves. Mind they are not as dumb as we tend to believe.

 

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by everneo
Parallel universe, multiverses are mathematical models and their existance never proved. Time travel is a bad interpretation of these models. Different timelines don't enable time travel. They differ only in rate at which their time, 'proper time', progresses. Once again i suggest get proper meaning from experts, possibly in P&M forum. I don't know how fantasy is better than faith..!

When time lines intersect, time travel is enabled.

Which one..? The one, God ultimately decides.

So before the ultimate decide, there is none?

What is the difference between knowledge of Good and Knowledge of Bad..

None. And that's not the point. The point is will the fruit or the warning prevent A&E to make a bad choice?

What/Who are the others ? in what way they are comparable to God ?

Satan was there. Apparently A&E thought he was comparable to god in someway.

what is pride? you tell me.

I don't know. But some people claim it was pride let A&E to defy. Same as why Satan defies god. I wonder why god havn't learn the mistake from satan's betray.

So, Eating fruit is a matter of pride ? or Pride of satan ?

I don't care. It's just one of the many possible reasons.

I don't know why A&E betrayed God. You can pick any reason and blast God for that flaw in design. I have no objection. Its your opinion.

So the bible didn't say?

I already said, A&E could not be so dumb that they could not differentiate between their creator's word and a stranger's word.

If god is the ultimate source, why A&E failed to notice that?

Having free will it is upto them not to do any think as suicidal as screwing God's trust as well as themselves. Mind they are not as dumb as we tend to believe.

So if they didn't pick by random then they must picked by a reason. Why the bible didn't mention it?

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by daktaklakpak
When time lines intersect, time travel is enabled.

What it is supposed to mean..? time lines by definition are seperate and they intersect, if at all, to merge. No time travel is enabled here.

So before the ultimate decide, there is none?

This is the nth time.

Before the unltimate decision, there were lot. He is capable of deciding anything. But restricted Himself to decide the ultimate decision according to how Adams react.

None. And that's not the point. The point is will the fruit or the warning prevent A&E to make a bad choice?

I have no idea what you are asking. "fruit prevent A&E to make a bad choice"...???

Satan was there. Apparently A&E thought he was comparable to god in someway.

I don't know whether God formally introduced Satan to A&E. How a stranger can be at par with their creator. what does that 'someway' mean..?

I don't know. But some people claim it was pride let A&E to defy. Same as why Satan defies god. I wonder why god havn't learn the mistake from satan's betray.

Pride was a result of eating the fruit. That did not make them to eat the fruit / defy the God.

I don't care. It's just one of the many possible reasons.

!!!

So the bible didn't say?

Should it say.?

If god is the ultimate source, why A&E failed to notice that?

or rather why they failed to realise God is ultimate source..?

So if they didn't pick by random then they must picked by a reason. Why the bible didn't mention it?

No reason is justifiable by them. They should not have done that either by random or by reason.



Edit : typo

 

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by everneo
No reason is justifiable by them. They should not have done that either by random or by reason.

That's very interesting. Obviously it was justified in A&E's mind. And their ability to reach that conclusion is a design flaw.

BTW, here is an interesting time travel thread: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6004

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by daktaklakpak
Obviously it was justified in A&E's mind.

Are you sure..? that they justified their action before-hand..?

And their ability to reach that conclusion is a design flaw.

They were equally able to adhere to God's warning, not to misuse the free will / trust. In fact they had more reason to do this.

BTW, here is an interesting time travel thread: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6004

There are few threads in Physics&Math forum too. It would be interesting to start one there.

A genuine warning. Particularly concentrate on the posting of those, who got firm grasp on facts viz., conservation of mass/energy, casuality, difference between dilation of time and time travel, difference between travel and jumping etc - they argue against time travel on solid scientific ground. the rest are either questions or wishful thoughts or junk.