http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/mute2.htm
though i suppose he is in on the "cover up" *rolls eyes*
though i suppose he is in on the "cover up" *rolls eyes*
Human Mutalation!!!!! SHOCKING!
- Thread starter A Canadian
- Start date
shaman_,
My resources are more than just internet websites. I have seen news reports, documentaries, and have read a few books.
I actually plan on contacting this man: http://www.ufobc.ca/Fern/cattlereports.htm ,as he is in the same area as me.
And just because your uncle has farm land and live-stock, does not mean his sheep are, or ever will, be abducted. My Dad, too, grew up on a cattle and pig ranch. He has never seen anything out of the ordinary. What does it mean? Nothing. As world wide as this phenomenon is, it does not mean you need to start hiding your live-stock in the basement of your home. Mutilations are normally localized, but still spread out over all over the world. There is no pattern really. I really just happens random. But most reported cases are becuase it happened 2-5 times on one farm. As far as the farmers who have had their live-stock mutilated, they clearly have not gone out of business due to it. There is still no reported case of an entire live-stock being mutilated except for one, which happened to 100's of chickens in one night, which was weird because no sounds where heard during the night, not even the farms guard dog made a sound the entire night. No signs of fright in the chickens either was observed, as feathers where not scattered all over the barn, which chicken tend to do when they are frightened.
The beast which I speak of is called the Chupacabra. Which most people claim is a sort of a cross between a kangaroo, a gargoyle, and the pop-culture conception of the alien "Grey." I personally have done no research on this so called beast. Nor do I care too for now.
Some people even claim that Bigfoot may be doing this too, which is false. As the Bigfoot type creatures are only spotted in wooded, unpopulated areas.
My resources are more than just internet websites. I have seen news reports, documentaries, and have read a few books.
I actually plan on contacting this man: http://www.ufobc.ca/Fern/cattlereports.htm ,as he is in the same area as me.
And just because your uncle has farm land and live-stock, does not mean his sheep are, or ever will, be abducted. My Dad, too, grew up on a cattle and pig ranch. He has never seen anything out of the ordinary. What does it mean? Nothing. As world wide as this phenomenon is, it does not mean you need to start hiding your live-stock in the basement of your home. Mutilations are normally localized, but still spread out over all over the world. There is no pattern really. I really just happens random. But most reported cases are becuase it happened 2-5 times on one farm. As far as the farmers who have had their live-stock mutilated, they clearly have not gone out of business due to it. There is still no reported case of an entire live-stock being mutilated except for one, which happened to 100's of chickens in one night, which was weird because no sounds where heard during the night, not even the farms guard dog made a sound the entire night. No signs of fright in the chickens either was observed, as feathers where not scattered all over the barn, which chicken tend to do when they are frightened.
The beast which I speak of is called the Chupacabra. Which most people claim is a sort of a cross between a kangaroo, a gargoyle, and the pop-culture conception of the alien "Grey." I personally have done no research on this so called beast. Nor do I care too for now.
Some people even claim that Bigfoot may be doing this too, which is false. As the Bigfoot type creatures are only spotted in wooded, unpopulated areas.
Well I relooked over the article and pictures but before I say what I need too...
A Canadian:
People have believed in god and "miracles" have been happening much longer than these UFO incidents, why are you ruling out that this couldn't have been a divine example?
According to the article they were referring to physical struggle and bondage. A head trauma is neither and would probably be very difficult to find in that mess, especially if parts of the brain was removed.
Well if this was done in the desert I have no doubt that these tracks could have been covered up by sand before the body was sound.
Yes....they have...how do you think the Bubonic Plague started?
Did I say the virus could have done this? I just mentioning the fact that there are known viruses that can liquify organs that was it. Anyways with the possibility of chemical warfare an artificial virus could have done much worse and with a human participant the virus wouldn't have to drill those holes would they?
Maybe if you don't want to keep repeating yourself you should give reasons why humans aren't involved.
Anyways about this Article, just wanted to point a few things out:
Looking at the photos you can deffinetly see the stomache and lower intestines were missing which has been supposedly sucked out through the belly button. Now according to a lot of you this is impossible to do with modern techology.
1. The most less likely way is it was done by an Alien
2. The second to less likely way was it was done by a Virus as I suggest, but I'm just gonna say the killer wasn't into bio-engineering.
Ok, so how could it have been done? The article pratically says it all people. Obviously ya'll left something out cause I would have sworn you said no technology today could suck out the person organs. Well your own UFO article says they can:
Quote from article: "In other words, internal organs were removed or sucked somehow through these small circular incisions. Why such a technique? Some doctors today are using a similar method to remove diseased tissue and organs from their human subjects"
Well then I guess we do have technology to do such a thing. Actually that's really it, Lmao, cause that's all ya'll gave us that would suggest alien acitivity.
After wards the article just goes on and on of how no human could do this because it just doesn't fit into human nature, anyone who has half a brain should realize that human nature is bizzare enough to do anything.
Boris:
I find that article to be a hell of alot more disturbing than the human mutalation article. That is pretty...weird...could that suggest a second coming? Everything in the bible is symbolic and with the weapons we have the world really will go up in flames... >.>
A Canadian:
People have believed in god and "miracles" have been happening much longer than these UFO incidents, why are you ruling out that this couldn't have been a divine example?
According to the article they were referring to physical struggle and bondage. A head trauma is neither and would probably be very difficult to find in that mess, especially if parts of the brain was removed.
Well if this was done in the desert I have no doubt that these tracks could have been covered up by sand before the body was sound.
Yes....they have...how do you think the Bubonic Plague started?
Did I say the virus could have done this? I just mentioning the fact that there are known viruses that can liquify organs that was it. Anyways with the possibility of chemical warfare an artificial virus could have done much worse and with a human participant the virus wouldn't have to drill those holes would they?
Maybe if you don't want to keep repeating yourself you should give reasons why humans aren't involved.
Anyways about this Article, just wanted to point a few things out:
Looking at the photos you can deffinetly see the stomache and lower intestines were missing which has been supposedly sucked out through the belly button. Now according to a lot of you this is impossible to do with modern techology.
1. The most less likely way is it was done by an Alien
2. The second to less likely way was it was done by a Virus as I suggest, but I'm just gonna say the killer wasn't into bio-engineering.
Ok, so how could it have been done? The article pratically says it all people. Obviously ya'll left something out cause I would have sworn you said no technology today could suck out the person organs. Well your own UFO article says they can:
Quote from article: "In other words, internal organs were removed or sucked somehow through these small circular incisions. Why such a technique? Some doctors today are using a similar method to remove diseased tissue and organs from their human subjects"
Well then I guess we do have technology to do such a thing. Actually that's really it, Lmao, cause that's all ya'll gave us that would suggest alien acitivity.
After wards the article just goes on and on of how no human could do this because it just doesn't fit into human nature, anyone who has half a brain should realize that human nature is bizzare enough to do anything.
Boris:
I find that article to be a hell of alot more disturbing than the human mutalation article. That is pretty...weird...could that suggest a second coming? Everything in the bible is symbolic and with the weapons we have the world really will go up in flames... >.>
1. Animal and Insects refusing to go near the bodies have been quite well documented. Here is an example, when my cat kills a mouse and leaves it outside my front door, flies begin to scatter around and on it within easily 2 hours.... the corpses they find clearly have been there at least 24 hours, and no insect, predator or scavengers, will not even go within a foot of the mutilated body.
2. Seeing as the cases fall into the paranormal subject, people just simply disbelieve that it could have anything to do something that we just don't know enough about. If you look at history, they said the earth was flat and witches where the real deal, boy did we prove them wrong. The witch example was a bad one, but technology has GREATLY improved since then. You must not underestimate what we can do now.
3. Forensic science is more amazing then you think. If a man gets pushed off a cliff 5 seconds before he was actully killed, they can prove that he died from some other factor before the fall. Even if it just a broken neck, which clearly would happen if you fell off a cliff. You are not giving forensic science a chance here.
4. As for Humans doing it, If you read the links, you would know why. I refuse to repeat myself for the hundredth time, this also falls into the same category as forensic science.
5. I did not say I believed in "La Chupacabra", but it is a fact that some people believe this is the/a cause of the mutilations
QUOTE: “Even today we are discovering newer and more dangerous viruses. The virus I mentioned above was discovered not too long ago, thank god it didn't become an epidemic..
- Viruses mainly spread from host to host, if the VIRUS theory is true, then the entire live stock will die. Which does not happen.
QUOTE: 200 years huh... people have believed in god for way longer than that but it still hasn't been proven true.
- I am not here to discuss the existence of god, please do not bring this up again, I have ruined friendships because of this subject. People believe aliens had something to do with Egyptian pyramids, but we know it is not true. Ancient hieroglyphs show “UFO” type objects, but that does not mean that they had anything to do with building the pyramids themselves.
To quote myself: “No virus of any kind”
Clearly I ment, that any virus on earth that we know of, can do such things.
If a virus is in a body, even if all blood is drained, we will still be able to find such existence that it was there. And yet, we find no existance of any new viruses in these bodies.
2. Seeing as the cases fall into the paranormal subject, people just simply disbelieve that it could have anything to do something that we just don't know enough about. If you look at history, they said the earth was flat and witches where the real deal, boy did we prove them wrong. The witch example was a bad one, but technology has GREATLY improved since then. You must not underestimate what we can do now.
3. Forensic science is more amazing then you think. If a man gets pushed off a cliff 5 seconds before he was actully killed, they can prove that he died from some other factor before the fall. Even if it just a broken neck, which clearly would happen if you fell off a cliff. You are not giving forensic science a chance here.
4. As for Humans doing it, If you read the links, you would know why. I refuse to repeat myself for the hundredth time, this also falls into the same category as forensic science.
5. I did not say I believed in "La Chupacabra", but it is a fact that some people believe this is the/a cause of the mutilations
QUOTE: “Even today we are discovering newer and more dangerous viruses. The virus I mentioned above was discovered not too long ago, thank god it didn't become an epidemic..
- Viruses mainly spread from host to host, if the VIRUS theory is true, then the entire live stock will die. Which does not happen.
QUOTE: 200 years huh... people have believed in god for way longer than that but it still hasn't been proven true.
- I am not here to discuss the existence of god, please do not bring this up again, I have ruined friendships because of this subject. People believe aliens had something to do with Egyptian pyramids, but we know it is not true. Ancient hieroglyphs show “UFO” type objects, but that does not mean that they had anything to do with building the pyramids themselves.
To quote myself: “No virus of any kind”
Clearly I ment, that any virus on earth that we know of, can do such things.
If a virus is in a body, even if all blood is drained, we will still be able to find such existence that it was there. And yet, we find no existance of any new viruses in these bodies.
Err well you got my post before I changed it but I'll answer anyways...
Point out where is sayd that.
Oh Im doing the exact opposite, which is why I'm suggesting with the technology we have today, we can achieve that kind of mutalation.
I have read and still don't see how human's can't do it.
Oh of course not, epidemics usually don't. An ebola break out in Africa killed a suprisingly low percentage of the population, even with the large amount of contact which happens there.
Neither am I, I'm just poining out that the 2 centuries of alien cases shouldn't be grounds of their existence.
Sorry I posted that without actually intending to keep it up there.
Point out where is sayd that.
Oh Im doing the exact opposite, which is why I'm suggesting with the technology we have today, we can achieve that kind of mutalation.
I have read and still don't see how human's can't do it.
Oh of course not, epidemics usually don't. An ebola break out in Africa killed a suprisingly low percentage of the population, even with the large amount of contact which happens there.
Neither am I, I'm just poining out that the 2 centuries of alien cases shouldn't be grounds of their existence.
Sorry I posted that without actually intending to keep it up there.
So.. you think that one belief is more credible than other, but you have zero evidence on each. It could be a madened spirit, it could be a loony alien or it could be a psycho human. It all depends on belief, doesn't it? So I say it was a mythological beast arisen from the ashes of time to claim its' victims. Prove me wrong if you can, but I see no difference among the belief in aliens killing cattle, or demons or strange earth creatures doing it.
Votorx said:
Now tell me, how can any human do this within a 45 minute to 24 hour time frame, without being noticed, without bothering the other animals around, without being in a special lab, and without leaving ANY TRACE WHATSO EVER that it was done by man?
What? Next you are going to tell me that people in helicopters, used a rope on this cow (or human, or whatever), to lift it to another area or into "the tiny helicopter", do an advanced medical procedure to remove pointless body parts and organs, remove all blood, including drain the entire capillarys bone dry. And then drop the corpse back into the field WITH OUT any noise or rope marks (or signs of abuse) done onto the animal? In the dark of night, where the dimmest light will be spotted and the slightest noise will be heard, by any know human made air craft. And above all, they managed to do this within a 45minute to 24 hour time period, a few feet, or a even a mile away from the house of the residents of the poeple who own the farm.
Amazing, that humans can do all this.
Makes you wonder why wars wage on for months and even years doesn't it?
We have all the technology to do THIS, but yet we still use crappy, loud planes only equipped with "smart bombs."
Please, Go On....!!!
Lets assume it is humans, it still does not explain the fact this is world wide.
Lets say it is the USA government, doing tests.
Why would the US gov. steal cattle and other critters, when they can easily breed their own for this. Why kill cattle in odd ways in the dark of night, only to add to the mystery that aliens are real. Why ruin the USA ecomony to do foolish testing, when they could just as easily breed their own animal to do such testing.
Please........
Your only other option is some magical beast on this earth, or some magical virus.
Lets say it is the USA government, doing tests.
Why would the US gov. steal cattle and other critters, when they can easily breed their own for this. Why kill cattle in odd ways in the dark of night, only to add to the mystery that aliens are real. Why ruin the USA ecomony to do foolish testing, when they could just as easily breed their own animal to do such testing.
Please........
Your only other option is some magical beast on this earth, or some magical virus.
Wait a sec Canadian I think you misunderstood why I mentioned my uncle. Perhaps I didn't explain the reference properly.
It was a response to this,
My point was that if it happened they would report it. If a farmer thinks that anything other than natural causes was killing his sheep/cattle they do something about it. They don't sit back and think "oh it's probably them aliens again so I won't worry about it."
I have never taken the Chupacabra stories too seriously as the descriptions from the eyewitness accounts are often completely different. Either there are lots of monsters running around or you can't rely on testimonies as evidence. I think the latter...
It was a response to this,
A Canadian said:
My point was that if it happened they would report it. If a farmer thinks that anything other than natural causes was killing his sheep/cattle they do something about it. They don't sit back and think "oh it's probably them aliens again so I won't worry about it."
I have never taken the Chupacabra stories too seriously as the descriptions from the eyewitness accounts are often completely different. Either there are lots of monsters running around or you can't rely on testimonies as evidence. I think the latter...
People report cattle mutilations to the local police/sheriffs all the time and even the countries scientists. And seeing as how no know natural occurrence can be accountable, they decide to give up on even reporting anything, as they know it will lead no where as the cause of these mutilations.
Boris2, I will have links for you ASAP, but I am currently busy playing Star Craft online.
But I must remind you, sheep are more common in Australia than cattle are. And it is fact that it cattle that are the most common animal that is mutilated. Which is wierd...
Do aliens know something about cows that we don't, or do they jusy prefer the taste more? *evil laugh*
But I will easily find you the same circumstances, in which of live stock of Australia are oddly mutilated.
Stay Intouch.
Boris2, I will have links for you ASAP, but I am currently busy playing Star Craft online.
But I must remind you, sheep are more common in Australia than cattle are. And it is fact that it cattle that are the most common animal that is mutilated. Which is wierd...
Do aliens know something about cows that we don't, or do they jusy prefer the taste more? *evil laugh*
But I will easily find you the same circumstances, in which of live stock of Australia are oddly mutilated.
Stay Intouch.
I think the point you keep missing Canadian is that your sources are unreliable. If everything on ufo websites were true then yes i agree it could not be done by humans/natural causes. Just because it's on a website doesn't mean its true.
The stories they tell on these sites and the supposed autopsies need to be verified. Also remember witness testimonies are not strong evidence at all.
You totally ignore official investigations done by qualified professionals yet instantly believe ufo sites where the evidence is not impressive. (A photo of a dead cow and a story to go with it.)
You have made statements like " top scientific minds cannot figure it out" and "Modern Science cannot figure this out" but you cannot show any evidence of this.
However, I am also interested in hearing some Australian examples. We are mainly a sheep nation but there is some cattle here.
The stories they tell on these sites and the supposed autopsies need to be verified. Also remember witness testimonies are not strong evidence at all.
You totally ignore official investigations done by qualified professionals yet instantly believe ufo sites where the evidence is not impressive. (A photo of a dead cow and a story to go with it.)
You have made statements like " top scientific minds cannot figure it out" and "Modern Science cannot figure this out" but you cannot show any evidence of this.
However, I am also interested in hearing some Australian examples. We are mainly a sheep nation but there is some cattle here.
Web links is all I can give for an example. It is not like I can tap into my brain and upload what I have seen from news reports and documentrys.
As for the Australian mutalations, I am having a lot of diffuculty finding anything on odd mutalition. Alot of UFO Reseach sites, but so far nothing on sheep or cattle mutalitions there.
Best I found, was 2 men found a dead kangaroo with a undetermind cuase of death and took it off the road, right before seeing a UFO. That really isn't nothing to go on.
I will keep looking later tonight, however.
As for the Australian mutalations, I am having a lot of diffuculty finding anything on odd mutalition. Alot of UFO Reseach sites, but so far nothing on sheep or cattle mutalitions there.
Best I found, was 2 men found a dead kangaroo with a undetermind cuase of death and took it off the road, right before seeing a UFO. That really isn't nothing to go on.
I will keep looking later tonight, however.
1. According to the article this whole act was done in at least 3 days, not a day as you just mention.
2. Within this interval of 72 hours one can take a body and do such procedures and put the body back into the middle of the dessert.
3. Don’t even suggest they need a specialized lab to remove the organs. A procedure that could have been done by the killer is called minimally invasive surgery that requires no more than several small tools for the incision and removal. Now if the killer wanted to remove the organ without damaging them then yes they might need some more evasive tools (a camera maybe) but even that can be done without a specialized lab.
4. If this was done in the desert I have no doubt sand would have blown over any tracks left by the man within the 3 days of the killing.
5. Now as for the cattle mutation, that is very ridiculous. You’re suggesting that the government has no reason for stealing cattle and that they can breed some of their own. Yet, those highly advanced aliens can’t? Lmao, come on. Lets say that they can’t for some reason, what suggests they need to dissect anything to get their information about the subject, or rather don’t you think they would have a better way of disposing the corpse after they were through? Or don’t you think they could deal with only few cattle rather than the thousands you’ve suggested, not even humans need that many test subject and we’re no where near as advanced as your aliens. Anyways, it would seem more likely for the government to steal the cattle or rather buy it from the farmers. It isn’t hurting the economy but rather helping it. Not too long ago there were agricultural surpluses and farmers were paid not to harvest crop and raise animals, so logically wouldn’t it be easier to get rid of these animals and use them as test subjects rather than paying millions of dollars to keep farmers from raising them? All corruption that’s still there in the government.
Votorx said:
I was talking about cattle mutalitions for starters, if you actully took notice, you would of realized we stoped talking about the human mutalition case ages ago...
I am not even going to bother posting in this thread anymore. Why bother posting in Pseudoscience, if everyone is going to debunk every little detail. For once I would like to hear, "wow, that is amazing." Even the moderator here attempts to debunk everything....
Fine, it was humans ok.... satanic torture ceremonies or something right?
We have more evidence of UFOs and Mutalitions, yet threads on "the moon landing was fake" and "NASA faking Mars photos" seem to be more popular with you 'debunkies'.
I see there is no place for me here.
A_Canadian,
The reason for my responses to the posts is very simple, sometimes there are other reasons/methods to how something is done. If you can only see one, then obviously you're not looking hard enough.
The reason I suggest an alternative is because when these stories emerge on bulletinboards and websites, they don't undergo a "Peer review" scrutiny. Usually the "reports" find themselves placed there by people that have already generated an opinion and even include their own assumptions within the report, making most reports biased.
I'm in my own way trying to balance out what the reality is (or could be) as apposed to what one reporter "thinks" occured. Otherwise people might reference a thread from this forum on a particular topic as "completely credible" in the future when some inputs are clearly very questionable.
I don't attempt to pull your ideas/reports apart for a personal reason, but some things shouldn't be believed unless investigated by yourself and even then the person who investigates still has to deal with the scrutiny of what they know and have said as being the truth.
As for your place? Thats up to you, but I think your personal views on the topics should be different and should be capable of understanding other peoples differences of opinion. Otherwise we would all agree and where would the discussion be in that?
The reason for my responses to the posts is very simple, sometimes there are other reasons/methods to how something is done. If you can only see one, then obviously you're not looking hard enough.
The reason I suggest an alternative is because when these stories emerge on bulletinboards and websites, they don't undergo a "Peer review" scrutiny. Usually the "reports" find themselves placed there by people that have already generated an opinion and even include their own assumptions within the report, making most reports biased.
I'm in my own way trying to balance out what the reality is (or could be) as apposed to what one reporter "thinks" occured. Otherwise people might reference a thread from this forum on a particular topic as "completely credible" in the future when some inputs are clearly very questionable.
I don't attempt to pull your ideas/reports apart for a personal reason, but some things shouldn't be believed unless investigated by yourself and even then the person who investigates still has to deal with the scrutiny of what they know and have said as being the truth.
As for your place? Thats up to you, but I think your personal views on the topics should be different and should be capable of understanding other peoples differences of opinion. Otherwise we would all agree and where would the discussion be in that?
If I told you all I had REAL PROOF of aliens and posted a photo, clearly, the majority of you all will easily try to contradict me.
Even if I saw it with my own eyes, even if the photo I got was clearly not falsed…
There will always be someone who denies it ever happened, it truly is pointless to post in sciforums.com concerning UFOs.
The debunkers and skeptics outweigh the believers… it is a lost cause.
Votorx, I accept other possibilities, but what these other have come up with, is truly ridiculous, if you are going to attempt to debunk something, at least show some intelligent reason as to why… instead of asking questions and such, that clearly have been asked already. I really hate repeating myself, yet you folks seem to want to ask the same questions over and over… Some of you even reply to the original post without even reading the whole thread or even looking at any of the links, though as stupid as most of these links may seems, it is amazing the time that people spent to make these web sites. True or not, something out there is unexplainable, yet no matter how hard someone can try, it is next to impossible to try and get them to think other wise. My time here is clearly wasted.
Even if I saw it with my own eyes, even if the photo I got was clearly not falsed…
There will always be someone who denies it ever happened, it truly is pointless to post in sciforums.com concerning UFOs.
The debunkers and skeptics outweigh the believers… it is a lost cause.
Votorx, I accept other possibilities, but what these other have come up with, is truly ridiculous, if you are going to attempt to debunk something, at least show some intelligent reason as to why… instead of asking questions and such, that clearly have been asked already. I really hate repeating myself, yet you folks seem to want to ask the same questions over and over… Some of you even reply to the original post without even reading the whole thread or even looking at any of the links, though as stupid as most of these links may seems, it is amazing the time that people spent to make these web sites. True or not, something out there is unexplainable, yet no matter how hard someone can try, it is next to impossible to try and get them to think other wise. My time here is clearly wasted.
Why do you think that my version of a mythological beast is not possible?
Even if I saw it with my own eyes.
There will always be someone who denies it ever happened, it truly is pointless to post in sciforums.com concerning mythological beasts.
The debunkers and skeptics outweigh the believers… it is a lost cause.
Even if I saw it with my own eyes.
There will always be someone who denies it ever happened, it truly is pointless to post in sciforums.com concerning mythological beasts.
The debunkers and skeptics outweigh the believers… it is a lost cause.