how would you live if God doesn't exist?
- Thread starter scorpius
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Which god are you referring, Jan? One god is very different from another.
The concept of the Easter bunny does not hold in my mind 7/24-365, but only when someone speaks about it or when pictures adorn the landscape during Easter. However, a theist must hold the concept of their god and reaffirm their faith continuously, by going to church services, practicing rituals, reading scriptures, talking about gods, etc.
You got that one backwards, Jan.
You cannot see god, therefore god must exist? That's logical reasoning, Jan?
That's called 'delusion.'
You say "Let me clarify" but you don't.
“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
There is no knowledge, common-sense, feeling, or understanding of God's existence. ”
Wrong.
Hence the reason why God is known throughout all time, and place (on earth)
“ It can only be a matter of gullibility. ”
This analasys can only come from an atheist, who has to hold the
concept in his/her mind ( with constant renewable effort) that God does not exist.
I cannot see God, therefore God does not exist.
The only logical reason to believe.
jan.
God is not known throughout all time, and place (on earth).
This analysis can only come from a theist, who has to hold the
unfalsifiable faith in his/her mind ( with constant renewable effort) that God exists
We've gone way off topic but of course that happens every time gods are mentioned.
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(Q),
The thing is, you're not really kidding anyone. We know that you know who/what we are talking about.
I'll go one stage further, it doesn't even hold in my mind at easter, it's so insignificant. But God, on the other hand is in my mind, and yours it would seem, 7-24-365, or close to. I guess God is absolutely significant in all our lives, whether we believe in him or not.
Not really. There are lots of theists who don't have to hold the concept of God in their minds, to believe God, or an equivilent being exists in some form or other. It's perfectly natural to believe that, just by observing life itself, and just some of the things it entails.
So I take it you have at least one good reason outside of "i can't see God, therefore he does not exist".
In case you ask, I'll throw a reason into the pot.
I believe a being like God exists because there must be an original cause.
Maybe I cannot see God, and I don't profess to, but I can understand that everything must be an effect of a cause, which goes right back to the original cause.
And as far as you or I can tell, life comes from life. By life I mean consciousness.
Compare that to you, who doesn't really know anything other than what you can fathom. But more importantly, know of nothing which would contradict the existence of God, yet believe God does not exist on the basis of "I cant see God therefore he does not exist".
That's like only accepting; doh, ray, me, fah, so, lah, ti, doh, as the only tune because you can't be arsed to use your mind to create different melodies.
LOL!
I can understand that coming from you, because you have no other choice but to attack. There's only so far you can go on "i can't see God, therefore God does not exist", before the cracks start to show. Then it's over to plan B.
Attack, attack, attack......
jan.
The thing is, you're not really kidding anyone. We know that you know who/what we are talking about.
I'll go one stage further, it doesn't even hold in my mind at easter, it's so insignificant. But God, on the other hand is in my mind, and yours it would seem, 7-24-365, or close to. I guess God is absolutely significant in all our lives, whether we believe in him or not.
Not really. There are lots of theists who don't have to hold the concept of God in their minds, to believe God, or an equivilent being exists in some form or other. It's perfectly natural to believe that, just by observing life itself, and just some of the things it entails.
So I take it you have at least one good reason outside of "i can't see God, therefore he does not exist".
In case you ask, I'll throw a reason into the pot.
I believe a being like God exists because there must be an original cause.
Maybe I cannot see God, and I don't profess to, but I can understand that everything must be an effect of a cause, which goes right back to the original cause.
And as far as you or I can tell, life comes from life. By life I mean consciousness.
Compare that to you, who doesn't really know anything other than what you can fathom. But more importantly, know of nothing which would contradict the existence of God, yet believe God does not exist on the basis of "I cant see God therefore he does not exist".
That's like only accepting; doh, ray, me, fah, so, lah, ti, doh, as the only tune because you can't be arsed to use your mind to create different melodies.
LOL!
I can understand that coming from you, because you have no other choice but to attack. There's only so far you can go on "i can't see God, therefore God does not exist", before the cracks start to show. Then it's over to plan B.
Attack, attack, attack......
jan.
*************
M*W: I can't imagine anything changing in my life at all. No god was ever there even when I believed there was. My morals have always been the same. My life has been the same. Perhaps the only difference was losing the overwhelming unworthiness and guilt christianity put upon me as a human being. What a relief!
M*W: I can't imagine anything changing in my life at all. No god was ever there even when I believed there was. My morals have always been the same. My life has been the same. Perhaps the only difference was losing the overwhelming unworthiness and guilt christianity put upon me as a human being. What a relief!
StrangerInAStrangeLa,
The question, although probably well intended, is really non-sensical as there is no way of knowing, feeling, or understanding beyond reasonable doubt that God does not exist. It begins and ends with "I cannot see God, therefore God does not exist". Which is okay if the conversation ends there.
Such a concept is based in ignorance, or it is a personal choice.
jan.
The question, although probably well intended, is really non-sensical as there is no way of knowing, feeling, or understanding beyond reasonable doubt that God does not exist. It begins and ends with "I cannot see God, therefore God does not exist". Which is okay if the conversation ends there.
Such a concept is based in ignorance, or it is a personal choice.
jan.
non sequiter
I never said "I cannot see God, therefore God does not exist". I don't recall anyone saying it in these forums.
strawman
You insist on promoting the most absurd & cruel fantasy anyone has imagined as truth with no proof yet claim those who disagree do so from ignorance.
Over & over & over & over & over & over again.
I never said "I cannot see God, therefore God does not exist". I don't recall anyone saying it in these forums.
strawman
You insist on promoting the most absurd & cruel fantasy anyone has imagined as truth with no proof yet claim those who disagree do so from ignorance.
Over & over & over & over & over & over again.
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StrangerInAStrangeLa,
You don't have to say it, it is your default position.
That which your point of view depends upon.
I'm not promoting anything, we happen to be in a forum which discusses God and religion. It would have no value if no posters believed in God, or vice versa.
How can "God does not exist" be explained without the basis of the explanation being based on ignorance, or personal choice?
Or, what natural phenomenon gives rise to the idea that God does not exist?
jan.
You don't have to say it, it is your default position.
That which your point of view depends upon.
I'm not promoting anything, we happen to be in a forum which discusses God and religion. It would have no value if no posters believed in God, or vice versa.
How can "God does not exist" be explained without the basis of the explanation being based on ignorance, or personal choice?
Or, what natural phenomenon gives rise to the idea that God does not exist?
jan.
Hi scorpius:
Do you think it's easy to steal, lie, cheat, or kill?
It's very difficult and risky to do so regardless of your belief or non-belief in God. And if you don't believe this, then just ask about it the residents of any jail near you! :bawl:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=22326
No. It isn't.
No. It doesn't.
I seriously doubt any atheist has ever said that.
You are promoting it as truth yet with no proof. That is argument from ignorance.
1st. you are evidently unaware of my position. 2nd, it is the responsibility of the person making a claim to provide proof. You have it backward. Without proper evidence, the claim must be seen as based on ignorance, not the nonacceptance of the claim.
No natural phenomenon gives rise to the idea of gods.
StrangerInAStrangeLa,
As I said, you don't have to say it.
You don't believe God exists due to lack of evidence.
Every atheist I've discussed this with, regarads scientific evidence as the criterea.
Science has nothing to do with the trancendental, simply because it has no physical properties to observe and test.
So in order to prove the existence of God, the atheist must see God. Because
every natural act, no matter how strange, can be/has been explained away.
It appears you are unwilling or unable to defend your position against my concept.
I assume you are atheist.
Am i wrong?
You want proof that i believe God exists? No problem.
First of all you must be clear as to what the claim actually is.
Secondly you must be clear as to what is to be accepted as evidence. Especially in light of the subject matter.
Thirdly, a claim based in "ignorance", is only so if the claiment refuses to, or, for whatever reason, cannot accept any other understanding of the subject matter.
Non acceptence of the existence of God, by default, has to be based on ignorance or personal choice. Not objective thinking, or evidence.
I'm talking about God, by the way.
On the contrary.
Natural phenomena is the main reason for belief in God. Isaac Newton, AlbertEinstein, Francis Collins, Anthony Flew, to name a few objective thinkers, are testament to that statement.
jan.
As I said, you don't have to say it.
You don't believe God exists due to lack of evidence.
Every atheist I've discussed this with, regarads scientific evidence as the criterea.
Science has nothing to do with the trancendental, simply because it has no physical properties to observe and test.
So in order to prove the existence of God, the atheist must see God. Because
every natural act, no matter how strange, can be/has been explained away.
It appears you are unwilling or unable to defend your position against my concept.
I assume you are atheist.
Am i wrong?
You want proof that i believe God exists? No problem.
First of all you must be clear as to what the claim actually is.
Secondly you must be clear as to what is to be accepted as evidence. Especially in light of the subject matter.
Thirdly, a claim based in "ignorance", is only so if the claiment refuses to, or, for whatever reason, cannot accept any other understanding of the subject matter.
Non acceptence of the existence of God, by default, has to be based on ignorance or personal choice. Not objective thinking, or evidence.
I'm talking about God, by the way.
On the contrary.
Natural phenomena is the main reason for belief in God. Isaac Newton, AlbertEinstein, Francis Collins, Anthony Flew, to name a few objective thinkers, are testament to that statement.
jan.
To clarify, means to make clear. How unclear is your own existence, to yourself? Do you have to think about this, in order to formulate a response, even if that response is "no response"? Do you need to consider your own existence by thinking about it, or do you "just exist". How much clearer can I get?Whoa.. said:
Except for every animist belief we find throughout our anthropology.
That's one thing the neanderthals probably didn't didn't have to worry about. Wondering and worrying about if there was a God. Or if they were going to go to heaven. Life was probably more simple back in those days. Just concern yourself about survival and how many rabbits and wild berries you could find everyday to try and survive. Forget about God and church service.
Ah, that would be the god YOU personally worship, not one of the many, many, many gods other people worship.
Your god is insignificant to millions/billions of people, as insignificant as holding the Easter bunny, or any other myth one wishes to conjure. Your god is as significant to you as the Easter bunny is to children. That says volumes by itself.
So, by observing life itself, we don't see gods, just like we don't see the Easter bunny. Yet, you believe in one and not the other.
A first cause has the alternative explanation of having nothing to do with gods. The problem is that I would entertain both possibilities while you would not.
So probably thought cavemen when they fled for their lives back into their caves upon seeing lightning and hearing thunder. It's the ignorance of accepting only the magical and mysterious as reasons for such cause that theists hold as did the cavemen.
That is one reason why you have a great deal to learn about the world around you.
In other words, I don't keeping repeating the same thing over and ove like you do; "God did it, God did it..."
And you would find that perfectly logical as opposed to, "I can't see God therefore he exists?"
Sorry Jan, but clearly you haven't been listening to anyone here who has provided a plethora of reasons why gods don't exist.
Funny Jan, that's exactly what I would think of you who only accepts, "God did it" and nothing else. What different reasons have you ever provided aside from that? None.
(Q),
Go ahead and be coy.
I know that you know what/who we're discussing.
You have a serious case of wishful thinking.
Your attitude speaks volumes about your thinking.
Keep it up, this is a good way to understand your mind.
I said nothing about seeing.
At least learn to decipher the simple symbols in front of you, known as letters,
then get back to me on the more serious subject of God.
Yeah sure.
What are you going to add to the pot?
Or probably not, but that's not the issue.
The idea of an original cause, is plausible, whether you think so or not.
It is certainly more plausible than things popping into existence without cause.
And you don't?
Explain how life can come from non-life.
You have a problem in understanding symbols known as letters, and ,what is written and said.
I haven't mentioned "God did it" once, let alone repeat it over and over again.
Do you use this same mentality in all things you attempt to understand.
Here's that problem again.
I said I believe God exists, and I gave a couple of reasons why.
The status of belief, and the reasons given, are perfectly justified.
You have yet to give me a reason why you don't believe in God, outside of
"i can't see God, therefore he does not exist", or "I don't believe because I don't".
There are very few who would openly, directly admit that God does not exist, because they know it is illogical, and irrational.
But I would like you to tell me why God does not exist, if you can.
Not so fast sunny jim.
I've provided, now it's your turn.
jan .
Go ahead and be coy.
I know that you know what/who we're discussing.
You have a serious case of wishful thinking.
Your attitude speaks volumes about your thinking.
Keep it up, this is a good way to understand your mind.
I said nothing about seeing.
At least learn to decipher the simple symbols in front of you, known as letters,
then get back to me on the more serious subject of God.
Yeah sure.
What are you going to add to the pot?
Or probably not, but that's not the issue.
The idea of an original cause, is plausible, whether you think so or not.
It is certainly more plausible than things popping into existence without cause.
And you don't?
Explain how life can come from non-life.
You have a problem in understanding symbols known as letters, and ,what is written and said.
I haven't mentioned "God did it" once, let alone repeat it over and over again.
Do you use this same mentality in all things you attempt to understand.
Here's that problem again.
I said I believe God exists, and I gave a couple of reasons why.
The status of belief, and the reasons given, are perfectly justified.
You have yet to give me a reason why you don't believe in God, outside of
"i can't see God, therefore he does not exist", or "I don't believe because I don't".
There are very few who would openly, directly admit that God does not exist, because they know it is illogical, and irrational.
But I would like you to tell me why God does not exist, if you can.
Not so fast sunny jim.
I've provided, now it's your turn.
jan .
There are plenty of objective thinkers that did not believe in God or religion, as well. Abraham Lincoln, Ayn Rand, Issac Asimov, Ben Franklin, Carl Sagan, Betrand Russell, Voltaire, Galileo, James Madison, John Stuart Mills, Karl Marx, Andrew Carnegie, Freidrich Nietzsche, John Adams, Mark Twain, Arthur C. Clarke, Helen Keller, Gloria Steinem, H.L. Mencken, Thomas Edison, Sigmund Freud, Thomas Huxley, Oscar Wilde, Robert Ingersoll just to name a few. A huge list can be found here.
And Albert Einstein said;
Albert Einstein said:
Charles Darwin was an agnostic, and many others were deists but actively rejected religion and all the dogma associated to it.
The more I observe nature, the less I believe in a God or Gods. The more I know and understand about evolution, the less I believe in a God or Gods. The incredible complexity of all living things plant, animal and mineral make me believe less in a God or Gods. Science can explain far more about our existance than any other written religious text.
The repeatable patterns and complex physics, the structure and depth of biology, the fathomless human psyche alone is enough for me to not believe in a God or Gods. A belief in God can make up the holes for which we don't understand at this time, but it does not have proof to keep us from understanding eventually. Once we understand, it falls into disbelief or gets denied by dogma alone but it is not untrue.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Oh so you base your entire concept of reality on one dusty old book ?
Liebling,
Of course there are, which is my point.
It is a matter of belief, nothing more nothing less.
Please, please, please, let's not go there.
You need to explain why otherwise it's just an empty statement.
Why am I not surprised.
That's very touching, but it explains nothing.
Please explain why.
Do you know what happens when we die?
Do you know if God exists or not?
Is this life all there is?
jan.
Of course there are, which is my point.
It is a matter of belief, nothing more nothing less.
Please, please, please, let's not go there.
You need to explain why otherwise it's just an empty statement.
Why am I not surprised.
That's very touching, but it explains nothing.
Please explain why.
Do you know what happens when we die?
Do you know if God exists or not?
Is this life all there is?
jan.
It's amusing how you guys put two and two together, and come up with something bizzare like seven hundred and nineteen.
jan.