How much do you stake on your opponent being wrong?

[Cris]

Yorda,

I am not my memory. Imagine that you would hit your head and forget everything... you would still exist. Your consciousness would still exist. I am not a body or a person, I am [that] I am (consciousness). You had no memory when you were a child, yet you existed.

As a new born child you were close to an empty slate with no self awareness. Constant exposure to external stimuli resulted in the formation of neural networks and memories. Self awareness occurs when a threshold level of neural networks is achieved. At this point self identity becomes possible.

The case of memory loss is not a simple analogy since some memory is stored in specific brain locations while much of it is distributed over large portions of the brain. A true memory loss would involve damage to such a large portion of the brain that you would be likely dead. Clinical memory loss is mainly due to disconnects within brain function, e.g. memory processes cannot access the memories.

Who you are and your identity is a result of being able to recall that information in your brain. If it is lost or you cannot access it then you would be largely like the newborn child with a clean slate and potentially able to build a new identity. If this occurs as a child then new memories and identity can be formed fairly easily but as an adult the brain is far more sluggish and a new identity becomes difficult to form. Much depends on the nature of the injury or ailment that caused the memory loss.

While you would still exist as a biological entity if your memory is completely lost then what was you will be gone and your body would have to start again and create a new identity.

 

[Yorda]

How do you know that one day for the lord is like a thousand years. Tell us how we too can find out.

it's in da bibles

Next , you are contradicting the bible. If one day is a thousand years as you claim then genesis is wrong or Christians are. Your arithmetic would make the world 7,000 years old, which contradicts what many believe.

the bible says that one day for the lord is like thousand years (why would genesis be wrong?)

and the earth would hardly be 7000 years... the creation took 7 days, and several thousand years have passed since then. so it's over 7000

You ,yourself, say you are an empty container. So are you waiting to be filled or what ?

we start empty, then the environment fills us with experience, and all kinsd of things. when i die, everything is erased so that i can become another person in my next life.

Why is the path to god narrow ? I take it you are speaking metaphorically but I still can't make sense of what you are trying to say.

again, i'm just quoting the bible, it says that the path is narrow

Finally, you still have not answered my earlier question concerning whether you believe scripture other than the bible. Do you ?

i believe in all holy scriptures. bible, quran, vedas and buddha stuff...

of course i don't believe everything they say since everything in them is not holy.

While you would still exist as a biological entity if your memory is completely lost then what was you will be gone and your body would have to start again and create a new identity.

yeah, that's what happens every time we are reborn into a new body. we lose our memory and start anew. i don't see that as a problem, i don't want to be the same person all the time.

 

[SnakeLord]

the bible says that one day for the lord is like thousand years (why would genesis be wrong?)

Which makes things really intriguing because clearly when god says he's going to make it rain for 40 days he obviously means 40,000 years. :bugeye:

 

[Adstar]

Now here you are contradicting yourself.
You have made it very clear that even most Christians don't get Christianity and are not really following God. So what they mean by God is not what you mean by God. Let alone the disdain you hold for Muslims and other non-christian theists who you also think do not get it and obviously mean something else by God than you do.

You have made it very clear that you hold not simply atheists but the vast majority of theists to be very confused about God - at best - and that the vast majority of the world's population is destined for hell. All those who have not accepted Jesus. All those who support war. And so on.

To use the % of the world's population who believe in God as a stick to hit atheists with really is, in your case, a kind of lie.

You are not being honest.

"To use the % of the world's population who believe in God as a stick to hit atheists with really is, in your case, a kind of lie."

No it is not. Just because the majority who believe in God have got His will for them wrong does not mean they do not believe that a God exists, they do believe a God exists.

The point i was making was that the majority of the worlds population believe that a God exists. That’s the only point i was making, Not that they necessarily believed in the true God of Abraham or believed in His Will as expressed through the Torah and Gospels.

So, no lie at all.

And a few corrections: I hold distain for false religion, not necessarily those who believe it. So I do not hold muslims in distain I hold islam in distain. I do not hold those who believe in justifiable war in distain I hold the doctrine of justifiable war in distain.

And i do not believe that people are doomed for not accepting Jesus i believe one is doomed for rejecting Jesus. Subtle but important difference there.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

"To use the % of the world's population who believe in God as a stick to hit atheists with really is, in your case, a kind of lie."

No it is not. Just because the majority who believe in God have got His will for them wrong does not mean they do not believe that a God exists, they do believe a God exists.

They are using the same word - well those that speak English. But they are not referring to the same god at all.

The point i was making was that the majority of the worlds population believe that a God exists. That’s the only point i was making, Not that they necessarily believed in the true God of Abraham

There you go.
You believe that the true God of Abraham is God. So whatever they believe in is not what you believe in. Are you confusing the word with what it refers to?

So, no lie at all.

And a few corrections: I hold distain for false religion, not necessarily those who believe it. So I do not hold muslims in distain I hold islam in distain. I do not hold those who believe in justifiable war in distain I hold the doctrine of justifiable war in distain.

But you approve of and have chosen to believe in a God that would torture them for all time. Disdain is a small thing compared to this.

And i do not believe that people are doomed for not accepting Jesus i believe one is doomed for rejecting Jesus. Subtle but important difference there.

Ah, so Muslims who never take Jesus as their personal savior can get into Heaven?

Come on. You know it was manipulative and misleading to suddenly respect their belief in 'God', or Allah, for example

 

[Yorda]

Which makes things really intriguing because clearly when god says he's going to make it rain for 40 days he obviously means 40,000 years.

no... he meant 40 days.

"Numbers in the Bible are often not meant to be taken literally, but serve a symbolic function. Our suspicions are aroused especially with a number that recurs so frequently as 40. What would be the symbolic meaning of the number 40? On one level, it represents a longer period of time, but there is more. The longer time has content: It is a time of need, of struggle, of testing. There is in fact extra-biblical evidence for this usage as well."

 

[Myles]

You sick and twisted sadist. Seek help.

He is seeking help. He reads the bible.

 

[Myles]

no... he meant 40 days.

"Numbers in the Bible are often not meant to be taken literally, but serve a symbolic function. Our suspicions are aroused especially with a number that recurs so frequently as 40. What would be the symbolic meaning of the number 40? On one level, it represents a longer period of time, but there is more. The longer time has content: It is a time of need, of struggle, of testing. There is in fact extra-biblical evidence for this usage as well."

What the hell are you talking about ? How do you know those numbers are not meant to be taken literally ? Have you a copy of god's code book?

So the shorter time has no content ? Well, as the longer time is made up of units of shorter time at what point does the content appear ?

The symbolic meaning of 40 could be anything you want it to be.

5 8-hr working days, (12 apostles x 3 )+ 4 , 13 Trinities + 1 god, 40 days in the desert, 4 seasonsx10 and so on. Let your imagination run free and it can be whatever you want it to be, even a song.i.e., Tea 4 2 and 2 40.

 

[superluminal]

He is seeking help. He reads the bible.

Again, I would have sworn that adstar was a she.

 

[Myles]

Again, I would have sworn that adstar was a she.

I do hope you are wrong. If he/she is a cross dresser the lake of fire awaits.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

According to acronym.com....

What does ADSTAR stand for?
Automated Document Storage & Retrieval System

 

[Myles]

According to acronym.com....

Well that's a Revelation.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I thought cross-dressing was an understatement given the meaning. (and honestly, I could find no other reference to adstar, making it, to my mind, an odd choice)

 

[Myles]

I thought cross-dressing was an understatement given the meaning. (and honestly, I could find no other reference to adstar, making it, to my mind, an odd choice)

Odd it may be but no more so than the hellfire and brimstone he/she revels in telling us about.

 

[SnakeLord]

no... he meant 40 days

I am actually in a slight predicament as I have had no sleep due to a serious overdose of caffeine. It wasn't intended at the time but one cup led to another and then another and then another. As such I'm feeling a little 'spiked' and so have chosen to delete my actual response to your statements because they were probably a little full on. Shame really, but nevermind. I shall instead, if it's all ok with him, quote Myles instead..

"The symbolic meaning of 40 could be anything you want it to be.

5 8-hr working days, (12 apostles x 3 )+ 4 , 13 Trinities + 1 god, 40 days in the desert, 4 seasonsx10 and so on. Let your imagination run free and it can be whatever you want it to be, even a song.i.e., Tea 4 2 and 2 40."

It's a load of old meaningless donkey nads.

One minute a day means a thousand years, the next it merely means days, the next is some magical formula for "struggle", or "banana" or some other meaningless gibberish. Oh how I wish the authors of the bible hadn't drunk as much coffee as I have - or maybe I shouldn't be blaming the authors? Aye, I think it more apt to look at the gooseberries that make up any old crap to suit their agenda.

Anyway, I'm gonna go jump head first in the snow and see if it helps. Ciao.

 

[Gustav]

there is a loophole
the translation

 

[Yorda]

What the hell are you talking about ? How do you know those numbers are not meant to be taken literally ?

do you know how many times the number 40 appears in the bible? there's no way it would rain exactly 40 days and moses would be with god 40 days, jesus would fast 40 days etc. it's obvious that there is some meaning behind it.

The symbolic meaning of 40 could be anything you want it to be.

but if you want to know the truth you can't just apply a random meaning to it. you have to know what the bible writers meant with the number.

btw... according to christians, we have lived on earth about 6000 years. and 1 day in heaven is like 1000 years, so one divine year is 360000 earth years. 360000x6000=2,160,000,000. that's pretty close to the real age which is supposed to be 2 billion years according to ancient science. maybe just a coincidence though...

I am actually in a slight predicament as I have had no sleep due to a serious overdose of caffeine.

i haven't tasted real coffee in this life yet.

 

[Adstar]

They are using the same word - well those that speak English. But they are not referring to the same god at all.


There you go.
You believe that the true God of Abraham is God. So whatever they believe in is not what you believe in. Are you confusing the word with what it refers to?

I never Said they all believed in the same God. Your not listening to what i am saying but only seeking to play on words.

I stand by what i said: Most people on earth believe that a god or that gods exist. It matters not a jot to the point i was making wether they believe in a myriad of hundu gods or the Allah or YAVEH or whatever, The fact remains. Most people believe in a god.

But you approve of and have chosen to believe in a God that would torture them for all time. Disdain is a small thing compared to this.

I accept and submit to the wisdom of a God who i trust in to know what is best. And if it is best to cast those that reject Jesus into the lake of fire than i accept that out of faith/trust in Him greater wisdom on the matter. I does not matter one jot what my personal opinion of this is at the present time. i know i am a human being of limited wisdom and i know the God of Abraham has perfect wisdom and i accept His judgement on the matter.

Ah, so Muslims who never take Jesus as their personal savior can get into Heaven?

I did not say that; Once again you are not listening to what i have said. i said rejection of Jesus as ones Redeemer/ Savour / one who atones ect ect is the door to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

Come on. You know it was manipulative and misleading to suddenly respect their belief in 'God', or Allah, for example

I don't respect their beliefs at all. There view on God is an abomination against the Gospel of Jesus. I was saying that muslims (over a billion of them) believe that a god exists. Not that i respected their beliefs. i do not.


No matter how you try to warp what i say, what i say is what i say not how you twist it.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Again, I would have sworn that adstar was a she.

i am a he. last time i checked anyway LOL


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I never Said they all believed in the same God.

Your not listening to what i am saying but only seeking to play on words.

No it is you who are playing with words. If I use a word to mean something different from my neighbor. I use 'chair' to mean 'table' and my neighbor uses 'table' to mean 'table'. We are not saying the same thing if we both say chairs should be made out of wood. We are not talking about the same thing.

I stand by what i said: Most people on earth believe that a god or that gods exist. It matters not a jot to the point i was making wether they believe in a myriad of hundu gods or the Allah or YAVEH or whatever, The fact remains. Most people believe in a god.

Check yourself. You know that you are hedging. Now you say ' a god ' rather than that they believe in God. You are playing with words.

I accept and submit to the wisdom of a God who i trust in to know what is best. And if it is best to cast those that reject Jesus into the lake of fire than i accept that out of faith/trust in Him greater wisdom on the matter. I does not matter one jot what my personal opinion of this is at the present time. i know i am a human being of limited wisdom and i know the God of Abraham has perfect wisdom and i accept His judgement on the matter.

If you know you a human being with limited wisdom than perhaps you have been listening to lucifer instead of God and are not wise enough to know the difference.

I don't respect their beliefs at all. There view on God is an abomination against the Gospel of Jesus. I was saying that muslims (over a billion of them) believe that a god exists. Not that i respected their beliefs. i do not.

Again the changed wording. You are being slippery. And notice too that inherent in your new wording is an admission that I was right. They do not believe in what you believe. They believe in something else. They do not believe in God. The fact that you change how you word it shows you know what I am saying is true.

No matter how you try to warp what i say, what i say is what i say not how you twist it.

It is you who now word it differently. I quoted from your words. You have now changed your words. It is disingenous to use for example, Muslims' belief in Allah, who you do not consider God, to add to the idea that this or that % of the world believe in God. You actually believe they do not believe in God but in some devil. You believe that because of their false beliefs they will burn in hell for all time and deserve to for reasons you cannot fathom but trust.

They do not believe what you believe. They do not believe in God. It is you who are playing with words and are trying to cover it up by changing the wording.

Have the integrity to admit this. It would not prove anything negative about your faith or your God. But it would show you have the integrity to admit you sometimes use rhetoric and manipulate - very human traits - rather than being honest.