How long does the American empire have?

How long until the USofA falls as the last super power?

  • It’s about over now, historians will refer to Bush Jr. as “America’s Nero”.

    Votes: 5 13.2%

  • <25 years

    Votes: 5 13.2%

  • <50 years

    Votes: 15 39.5%

  • <100 years

    Votes: 6 15.8%

  • Never!, ya and monkey will fly out of my butt!

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • A specific date that I will explain...

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
MEXICO!

But Mexico being a third world country is a problem

Is it? Really? No it's not the US capitalist (imperialist) system depends on cheap labour and having that right across the border in Mexico is a big plus. But to have a modern and vibrant Mexico will hurt the US in the long run. For instance if Mexico makes Mexisoft, and becomes a big competitor for Microsoft then will the US benefit? Nope. To have a labour force become un-competitive with high wages will only hurt the situation more. Unstead of 1 million people employed in Mexico, you would have a 100,000 lucky ones. Thus 2/10 mexicans would be employed. Which would not only make Mexico poorer, but the country would recess deeper into the 3rd world.

We had expected Mexico's economy to improve with NAFTA, so that we could also "sell goods to them". If the Mexican economy had improved the immigrants would not be flocking across the border at a rate of 2,000 per day

Well Mexico's economy boomed under NAFTA just the facts:

1994 (the first year of NAFTA)

GDP Million: 328 billion
Per Capita GDP: 3,600
Labor force: 26,000,000
Exports Million: 27.5 billion
Imports Million: 48.1 billion

2002 (12 years after)

GDP:
purchasing power parity - $920 billion
GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $9,000
Labor force: 39.8 million
Exports: $159 billion
Imports: $168 billion

And Mexico does buy your stuff she buys approx. $114 billion worth of American goods. That is 1/7 of all American exports, sounds pretty good to me.

Now the illegals, we are getting them here in Canada too. FROM THE US! Yes there has also been a rise in refugee applications from the US! Now the illegals always crossed the border, millions live and work in the US for minium wage jobs. But to say that NAFTA hasn't at least helped those in N.Mexico is a falicy.

To make matters worse many of the maquilodora plants are now closing and the jobs are being sent to Asia where there is an even cheaper labor market.

It's called the China drain! I am telling you China is going to control world trade very soon.
 
nico

I agree that China will be come the world trade super power.

I was just trying to state that the USA helped that to happen when we formed NAFTA and included Mexico. The numbers for Mexico look good, but those numbers are inflated by the influence of American companies operating in Mexico.

Raw materials going south of the border to American factories are counted as imports. Finished products leaving American owned factories are counted as exports.

The use of cheap Mexican labor was cancelled out by the closing of American factories, leaving us with only temporary gains which for the most part went into the pockets of corporate executives.
Now that cheap labor is located in China, leaving Mexico as it was , a third world country.

http://www.mex-i-co.com/MIR_Maquila_05_02.htm

Mexico is still a two class society. The average maquilodora worker lives in absolute squalor. I have seen their living conditions many times as I live only 70 miles from the Mexican border.

In the last ten years we have had an estimated 30 million latino illegals enter this country. Actually no one can be sure how many have entered because there is no way to count undocumented people, and they sure as hell don't volunteer to be counted.

This influx of illiterate unskilled workers will eventually drag down the US economy and most probably will spill over into Canada.
 
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Yes JusticeUSA, thats what ive read about the nAFTA as well. The increase in money is balanced by a continuing balance of payments problem, plus the destruction of mexican farming and everything else makes them more dependent on imports and exports. It can be shown that incomes per worker have declined throughout mexico.
 
Personally I only voted for 50 years for my own personal reason that doomsday is fast approaching...

Yet, in the event of that not happenining, the U.S. won't be dissolved while I'm still alive, they'll (Chinese) have to kill me first...
 
justiceusa

I agree that China will be come the world trade super power.

The Chinese are growing at rates hardly ever seen before. She will have one big competitor, India. These two are going to duke it out for western investment. The bad thing for India is Pakistan, China can use Pakistan as a proxy to keep the Indians busy with them and degrade western confiedence, and since Pakistan is going no where economicly it would be in Pakistans's best interests.

The use of cheap Mexican labor was cancelled out by the closing of American factories, leaving us with only temporary gains which for the most part went into the pockets of corporate executives.
Now that cheap labor is located in China, leaving Mexico as it was , a third world country.

How was it cancelled out? The US gains almost nothing from this influx of investment in Mexico. The goods maybe cheaper but in essence purchasing power is degraded. As for Mexico she is lucky she has a fall back:

Mexico 26.9 billion barrels of oil.

Mexico is still a two class society. The average maquilodora worker lives in absolute squalor. I have seen their living conditions many times as I live only 70 miles from the Mexican border.

The US is quickly becoming a two class society as well. You've been to the region (i'd bet Nogales) and seen the way they live. It's bad I realize, but they make more than a person living in poverty stricken S.Mexico, do they not? But if the American public wants to keep enjoying low prices for consumer products then she will have to abide by the laws of globalization.

This influx of illiterate unskilled workers will eventually drag down the US economy and most probably will spill over into Canada.

I doubt that, since I live in Canada. Here in Toronto we have the world's most ethnicly diverse city. So I see every culture here. The problem here is not that we are getting a influx far from, we don't have enough. Canada hasn't been reaching her targets for immigration. If anything the US has benefited from Canada's brain drain, a lot of our best minds go to the US because of lower taxes.
 
Globalization will be the downfall of the US as the world superpower. I give it 50 years. Economically, other countries such as china and india will be dominant. All a guess of course.
 
nico

"Canada hasn't been reaching her targets for immigration"
________________________________________________

If you want, poor unskilled illiterate immigrants, Canada's need will soon be fulfilled. Ask and they will come. Don't ask and they will also come. Ignore them and they will come, try to stop them and they will come.

Seriously, when the US job market for cheap unskilled labor is saturated, and it won't be long now, your immigration quotas will be filled. So will your schools, your medical care facilities and your prisons.
 
If you want, poor unskilled illiterate immigrants, Canada's need will soon be fulfilled. Ask and they will come. Don't ask and they will also come. Ignore them and they will come, try to stop them and they will come.

To come into Canada in comparison to the US is harder, we don't have a poor neighbour like you do. So a flood is impossible we can control it. Also Canada is considering something that would turn off many would be immigrants, they will be forced to live in the "other cites" Saskatoon, Regina, Halifax. And they won't be as accepted as they would in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver. They will come and they are coming but things will not be nearly as bad as the current situation in the US.

Seriously, when the US job market for cheap unskilled labor is saturated, and it won't be long now, your immigration quotas will be filled. So will your schools, your medical care facilities and your prisons.

We I believe don't have much cheap labour in the first place. I mean industrially we don't in terms of the service sector ok but overall it's not that easy, we don't have vast cheap labour farms like the Imperial valley in California. So to say Canada will suffer is a bit much.
 
cmon justice. every sector? the cnn link merely points out that illegals work in construction. the guardian link......meatpacking. these are typical areas of employment for illegals
 
cmon justice!!! have you lost your sense of perspective or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

:D

*i had a feeling you would drag out the customs thing. so what? private sector/low wage=typical illegal employment area
 
I am not referring to migrant farm workers, the illegal immigrants are taking jobs in every sector of the job market.

That's impossible, they can't take the hi-tech sector now can they? But this migration is natural to a Gloabalized world. How can you complain? You wanted it, you've got it. The Migration of the less endowed masses to the lands that once opressed them is sweet justice. Anyways the Mexicans might as well stay in Mexico. Most menial jobs are going to be coveted in the US once the industrial sector flies off to China and India. And those immigrants are the building blocs of a capitalist economy, they keep the demand up.
 
The U.S has alies all over the world, due to poiltical activity of dozens of years. Money was invested in bringing the "good" guys (for America) to power, and the "bad" guys off power. whether by funding, or by military acts.

Yet, as showed us the war in vietnam, America(I'm refering to the current ppl representing it) cannot control its own poitics for a long time. After several years of agressive and very high-cost foreign policy, the pressure from inside will stop America's moves and make her invest in her owen country. killing the national debt and the inlfation, re-establishing a wellfare prgram - all those will be the thing America will put her money on, and thus - it will lose its alies in the long term.

This means that a change in the american society will be the only thing that can stop it. how much time will pass until then? beetwen 25 to 50, in my opinion.

oh, and my bet on the next global force will be China. The fact it was not affected too much by the Sars crisis (while growing Singapur was shut down completly) shows something about the strengh of its economy. especially during a time of terror.
 
spooks

If they keep coming here we do have to be prepard to take care of their social problems, and I don't see Bushie about to do that. We have already hit the saturation point here in southern AZ. Like I have said before , how many are too many when no one is counting?

The illegals working for Tyson had no benifits whatsoever, if they lopped off a hand on a meat cutter they were sent packing back to Mexico, but only after a local hospital absorbed the cost of emergency treatment.

Nationwide 14% of our social services budget is being spent taking care of illegals with problems.
Our money would be better spent encouraging improvments in their own countries.

The original topic here was the downfall of the US economy and I think the immigration problem will hasten that downfall not delay or prevent it.

Is this obtuse?? Is there no perspective?? Hey , maybe its time for my meds :)
 
Re: spooks

Originally posted by justiceusa
........................... Is this obtuse?? Is there no perspective??
Click to expand...

not at all. makes perfect sense (as you usually do) i merely took issue with "every sector" and the "obtuseness" was in relation to that. lets drop it anyway. way too pointless to argue about
 
And I am supposed to feel sorry? HAHA! Please, the American economy has to compete right? The American economy is losing jobs to the Chinese and Indians because of lower wages right? Well the American public are going to have to realize that they will be payed less then they would have before. For example their wages may stay the same for years and benefits begin to disappear. How can the American economy when she is over=-bloated with high wages? This captialism, you fought communism for this. Remember that, you wanted it so bad that your were wiling to go to war with the USSR for it. Those Mexicans, Chinese, Indians seem ever so wiling to take your jobs. I won't be sheeding a tear. Americans are going to start to feel imperialism, corporate imperialism. ;)
 
Originally posted by justiceusa
Immigration is corporate welfare:
Click to expand...

stats on local labor availabilty, uni grads, industry growth projections?

it is true that low wage slaves imported from china and india do lot of high tech stuff. if you are against that, can you still ensure that silicon valley will stay competitive if they look locally for labor? what would you do if you were bill gates? or perhaps a start up company?
 
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