So he didn't take their word for it, couldn't even trust his best friends, that's why they called him "doubting" Thomas.
How is faith in God attained?
- Thread starter nds1
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The Bible says that Satan posessed Judas for that purpose, Satan's purpose to kill the Messiah, thinking that would be it, and God knowing that He would resurrect, fulfilling His plans since the foundation of the world.
Judas, Thomas, and Mary were Jesus' best disciples.
There miracles where to attract people to hear their message.
Belief comes when one believes in the Word of God, It does not come when one sees miracles. Miracles where used but again it is the Message that keeps people and it is the message that people must keep the faith in.
Did they believe in Him as the Messiah Jesus? Did they believe in His atoning death and resurection? No and No again. They knew He was not just an ordinary man but they did not understand His mission or who He really was.
Yes many of the common people looked upon Him as a great prophet, But Jesus was far more than a Prophet but believing Jesus was a prophet is one thing. Believing He is the Messiah, Son of God born of the virgin mary and through His atoning sacrifice salvation is obtained in quite another thing.
Once again note the Word "prophet".
Did they believe He was the Son of God??? What did they believe about Him?
John was referring to all the doings and teachings of Jesus, He was talking about all the things that he had written in the Gospel not just the signs.
Once again believing that someone can heal you is different from believing that one is the Messiah Lord of Lords King of Kings. The woman no doubt believed that Jesus was a great healer and probably believed that Jesus was a man of God (a Prophet) but there had been many prophets before many men of God Jesus was not like them.
Who is david blain. Is he a faith healer? If he is then that proves my point. people can believe that they will be healed by david blain without ever believing he is the Messiah, they might think he is a man of God even but again that woman might have looked upon Jesus as people look upon david blain. (i stress i do not know if david blain is a faith healer or if he is a true follower of the Messiah Jesus, I do not know the man.)
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Ahhh but you have not read on and received the real message of the Thomas incident have you. How about adding a few more verses to reveal a very important message.
John 20
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
There you have it. Blessed are those that have not seen and yet have believed. I am blessed.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
John 20:30-31
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
If we put these two verses together we get...... one sentence (assembled above). I don't know where you get the idea that John was talking about Jesus' teachings when he said "But these are written." Clearly, in the context of the sentence, he is talking about the miracles only.
You tell me Adstar, why did Jesus perform miracles at all? His word was so "awesome" right, so why did he need them? Further, why did John and the other writers write about any miracles of Jesus at all?
I asked the Christians on this site to tell me what the "Message of Jesus" was. These are the anwers I got:
Adstar:
Salvation through agreement with God and reliance on God. Rather than salvation by achieving the will of God, an imposable task for faulty humans.
Photizo:
Love God, Love your neighbor. Trust God as well since trust and love go hand in hand.
Nutter:
" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." - John 3:36
IceAgeCivilizations:
Google it.
Let me combine of all these into one Message of Jesus:
The Message of Jesus: You can be saved by believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and by agreeing with God, loving God, and relying on or trusting in him. You don't have to do his will per se, you simply must agree with what his will is.
So if I agree with the above message, then I will attain faith in God, right Adstar?
In order to agree with the Message of Jesus I have to first assume a God exists, correct? In order to believe that I can be saved through agreeing with God and relying on Him, I must first assume there is a God to agree with and rely on, right?
So essentially you are saying that to attain faith in God, I must attain faith in God. Clearly something is wrong there Adstar.
In any case, I don't think any of you really pinned down what the true message of Jesus was, which is: The kingdom of God is at hand.
Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
NKJV
This was the core of Jesus' teaching, yet none of you gave a single mention to it. I think you all better re-read the Bible.
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
If we put these two verses together we get...... one sentence (assembled above). I don't know where you get the idea that John was talking about Jesus' teachings when he said "But these are written." Clearly, in the context of the sentence, he is talking about the miracles only.
You tell me Adstar, why did Jesus perform miracles at all? His word was so "awesome" right, so why did he need them? Further, why did John and the other writers write about any miracles of Jesus at all?
I asked the Christians on this site to tell me what the "Message of Jesus" was. These are the anwers I got:
Adstar:
Salvation through agreement with God and reliance on God. Rather than salvation by achieving the will of God, an imposable task for faulty humans.
Photizo:
Love God, Love your neighbor. Trust God as well since trust and love go hand in hand.
Nutter:
" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." - John 3:36
IceAgeCivilizations:
Google it.
Let me combine of all these into one Message of Jesus:
The Message of Jesus: You can be saved by believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and by agreeing with God, loving God, and relying on or trusting in him. You don't have to do his will per se, you simply must agree with what his will is.
So if I agree with the above message, then I will attain faith in God, right Adstar?
In order to agree with the Message of Jesus I have to first assume a God exists, correct? In order to believe that I can be saved through agreeing with God and relying on Him, I must first assume there is a God to agree with and rely on, right?
So essentially you are saying that to attain faith in God, I must attain faith in God. Clearly something is wrong there Adstar.
In any case, I don't think any of you really pinned down what the true message of Jesus was, which is: The kingdom of God is at hand.
Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
NKJV
This was the core of Jesus' teaching, yet none of you gave a single mention to it. I think you all better re-read the Bible.
The Kingdom of God is now in the hearts of born-again people as the Spirit.
I mentioned born-again several times.
Well, let's assume that faith involves the Spirit of God entering a person and coexisting with that person's spirit.
In this case, we have to clear up what "the Spirit of God" is.
In the Bible, we see the terms: The Spirit, The Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, The Holy Ghost.
All of these terms are describing one thing: God's Spirit. Am I correct?
We know that God is a purely spiritual being himself. God is essentially a spirit. So how can God have a spirit, if he is a spirit? How can a spirit have a spirit?
In this case, we have to clear up what "the Spirit of God" is.
In the Bible, we see the terms: The Spirit, The Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, The Holy Ghost.
All of these terms are describing one thing: God's Spirit. Am I correct?
We know that God is a purely spiritual being himself. God is essentially a spirit. So how can God have a spirit, if he is a spirit? How can a spirit have a spirit?
Let me combine of all these into one Message of Jesus:
If you believe in that then you would have faith already.
Faith in God is both belief that He exists and trusting in Him. Faith is both belief and trust combined. So one must believe in God before one can come to seek to know Him and come to trust in God. It is not belief leaving to belief it is belief leading to belief and trust.
I gave you the most condensed answer i could. Look at my answer and you will see that if you trust in the will of God and believe Jesus then you will believe in the scriptures you posted Mark 1:14-15. My answer covers the scripture you posted. So thanks for offering advice but i do not need to re-read the Bible.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
If you believe in that then you would have faith already.
Faith in God is both belief that He exists and trusting in Him. Faith is both belief and trust combined. So one must believe in God before one can come to seek to know Him and come to trust in God. It is not belief leaving to belief it is belief leading to belief and trust.
.
I gave you the most condensed answer i could. Look at my answer and you will see that if you trust in the will of God and believe Jesus then you will believe in the scriptures you posted Mark 1:14-15. My answer covers the scripture you posted. So thanks for offering advice but i do not need to re-read the Bible.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
You are trying to understand the nature of the relationship between the 3 again arn't you. lol
1 John 5
7For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"
The very fact that jesus here states that there's something he does not know, shows beyond any doubt that he is not omniscient, and thus not god.
John 14:28 ".. for the Father is greater than I"
Again, jesus shows beyond any doubt that he is lesser than god, not god himself.
The biblical facts:
1) jesus admits that he is not omniscient, (and thus not god)
2) jesus admits that god is greater than he, (god is omniscient, jesus isn't).
While he might be powerful he is not and cannot be god by his very own testimony.
Hebrews 7:20 "God said to him: "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: 'You are a priest forever.' "
god here declares that jesus, (not god), is a priest forever, not a god. His function, like melchizedek before him, is to act as a middle man between humans and god. jesus is not god himself, he's a priest without omniscience - a lesser being than god. Hebrews continues to show that jesus role isn't even unique - that there have been "many of those priests", (including melchizedek who is an eternal being himself). It says of melchizedek:
'Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever'..
melchizedek and jesus are on the same standing. Neither one of them is god, both of them are eternally living priests.
Well said Snakelord. There are certain things which God knows and which Jesus does not know.
What this proves is that God and Jesus are undoubtedly two separate conscious beings with two separate memories and two separate modes of making decisions. If we are to take the Bible as truth, we must admit that it wasn't just God who had to make the conscious decision to sacrifice his Son, but it was his Son Jesus who also had to make his own independent conscious decision to sacrifice himself by temporarily coming down to earth as a physical being.
So God and Jesus must be two separate individual "spirits" with their own independent abilities to make decisions. Jesus could theorietically turn against God like Lucifer allegedly did, but he wouldn't.
No I'm trying to understand the relationship between the one (God) and the two others (Jesus + HS).
Adstar, you know as well as I do that the Holy Spirit is also called "the Spirit of God." So this means that God is in possesion of the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit is God's spirit.
God doesn't have a soul, correct? He is one spiritual unit. How could a spirit, have a spirit?
In other words, we know God and Jesus are two separate conscious beings, but I don't think we could say the same for the Holy Spirit. I think the Holy Spirit is just God, personally.
Adstar, when Jesus returns, what authority will the Holy Spirit have? What role or purpose will it have?
Aside from that, Jesus is described as the first-born, so he must have been a created being, right?
What this proves is that God and Jesus are undoubtedly two separate conscious beings with two separate memories and two separate modes of making decisions. If we are to take the Bible as truth, we must admit that it wasn't just God who had to make the conscious decision to sacrifice his Son, but it was his Son Jesus who also had to make his own independent conscious decision to sacrifice himself by temporarily coming down to earth as a physical being.
So God and Jesus must be two separate individual "spirits" with their own independent abilities to make decisions. Jesus could theorietically turn against God like Lucifer allegedly did, but he wouldn't.
No I'm trying to understand the relationship between the one (God) and the two others (Jesus + HS).
Adstar, you know as well as I do that the Holy Spirit is also called "the Spirit of God." So this means that God is in possesion of the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit is God's spirit.
God doesn't have a soul, correct? He is one spiritual unit. How could a spirit, have a spirit?
In other words, we know God and Jesus are two separate conscious beings, but I don't think we could say the same for the Holy Spirit. I think the Holy Spirit is just God, personally.
Adstar, when Jesus returns, what authority will the Holy Spirit have? What role or purpose will it have?
Aside from that, Jesus is described as the first-born, so he must have been a created being, right?
Once again.
1 John 5
7For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
The Holy Spirit is one of the three that are one.
If the three are one then the Holy Spirit would agree with all the decisions of a returned Messiah. So the Messiahs authority is The Spirits Authority and it is also The Fathers Authority for they are one. Can you not see that your question is irrelevant?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
That Jesus is raised from the dead, That Jesus is the Messiah, That believe the Word of God.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days