How did Noah fit all those animals on the ark?

[NDS]

So what did viruses supposedly morph into?

"A virus is a microscopic particle (ranging in size from 20 - 300 nm) that can infect the cells of a biological organism. Viruses can replicate themselves only by infecting a host cell. They therefore cannot reproduce on their own. At the most basic level, viruses consist of genetic material contained within a protective protein coat called a capsid."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus

See IAC, viruses cannot reproduce on their own. So they didn't evolve into anything. Viruses came into existence after the evolution of the Eukaryote cell (human cells) since viruses are dependant on these cells as well as bacteria as a host cell in order to survive.

Again, your lack of research shows how ignorant your question about viruses was, and how ignorant you are on the subject of biology and evolution.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Hey M*W!!

Thanks for replying! I know that I didn’t really address all the questions you posted but I would be a liar if I said that I knew all the answers from Genesis. It would take more that a lifetime to learn all the truths of Scripture this is why it never gets old in a person’s lifetime. I guess I am just wondering which of those questions hinders you from risking the destiny of your soul?

*************
M*W: Well, I'll forgive you for not being able to answer all my questions. Since you are new to this forum, I was hoping the new kid on the block could answer some of my questions. The regular christians here don't have the answers. There are no specific questions I have that would impact the destiny of my soul. Being a medical person, I tend to interpret the 'soul' as bioelectric energy. At least that can be tested and measured.

I am sure of the Bible because I live my life according to it. It is the Book of Life. Is there any other book you want to live your life by? And it is interesting to know that the Bible informs us of every important aspect of life. This is what God intended. He gave us the Bible to have "light" in the world. What evidence have you personally discovered that disproves it? I mean life attests to it truths. I don't believe it because I was raised that way (my life is very different now from when I grew up). I believe it because I chose to--as the Bible even says: "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve." Joshua 24:15

*************
M*W: If I were to say, "I'm sure of Edith Hamilton's Mythology, because I live my life according to it," that's what the gods intended...". There are truths to be found there, too!

I definitely am not all-knowing--especially when it comes to matters of life after death. Why not believe the historical accounts written by the 40 men, who spoke 3 different languages, lived on 3 different continents, over a period of 1500 years, with perfect agreement? The fact is I am not going to trust myself with such an important decision as the destiny of my soul. God formed us in the womb and our soul was created.

*************
M*W: I'm very interested in the historical accounts of the bible. I had no idea that it took all of 1500 years to write the bible, but I am confused by the bible being written with 'perfect agreement." There seems to be some debate on this forum that there is no perfect agreement to be found in scripture. Can you clarify why the bible contradicts itself, especially where 'historical' data is concerned?

I'd rather be a believer than a doubter. Its not gonna hurt you to believe. Its better to believe than to doubt.

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M*W: In some circles, believing a lie would be harmful to one's soul. I'll use Jim Jones as an example. Believing killed all those people in Guyana. They were bible believers. They prayed all day everyday, and where did it get them? Dead.

The Bible has to be either all true, or not true at all. If only some parts are true, how could I choose which parts those were?

*************
M*W: That is a very logical assumption, and I believe you are right about this. Take Jesus' genealogy for instance. There are discrepancies between the gospel accounts. What happened to Jesus' body? Was the ever put in the tomb? Was he put in the tomb and taken out without anyone seeing him? Was the tomb just a decoy? That's always confused me. And this whole son of god thingy is confusing. There's only one son, and it's the sun.

I know that I have already written a lot but I just wanted to add again that in order to fully understand the nature of God you have to read about Him in the Bible. This is why he gave us the Word and why no one on the face of the earth can deny the influence of the Bible. It has been translated into hundreds of languages.

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M*W: I just wonder if all those translations are consisent and correct? Yes, I agree, the bible has had a tremendous amount of influence in the world. I just hope the people who read it will do so with an open mind.

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:14

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M*W: I don't understand how a god could promise everlasting life and then end it all. Is there some kind of control issue going on? I'm not too concerned myself about everlasting life. I'm kinda tired of it all right now.

What do you think about Jesus and Mary Magdalen having children? Was Mary Magdalen really the whore they said she was? Why would Jesus mess around with someone like her? All she did was carry that damn jar around. The bible says it was full of special oil, but I don't think it was holy or anything. Do you think that could really have something to do with OPEC and the end times?

I know I have a lot of questions, and I hope you can answer them. There are many of us on sciforums who want to know the truth.

 

[NDS]

"I once lost six months of work because a bacterum evolved a new protein, and I didn't catch it immediately."

- An advanced biologist

See IAC, viruses didn't evolve, bacteria did. In fact, paleontologists have found ancient fossils of bacteria from millions of years ago when the Cambrian era started. Then, as the rocks the fossils are in get younger and younger more advanced species of animals are found.

This is called faunal succession.

 

[NDS]

The problem with many people who are not informed about evolution is that they all think that "Dinosaurs" existed independent of everything else, were wiped out, then suddenly "humans" and "other animals" existed.

The truth is, humans and all animals are made up of Eukaryotic cells. The very first creatures, as proven from the fossil record, appeared around 545 million years ago. There were many types of creatures such as fish which led up to the dinosaur.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I think when it comes right down to it, Noah's Ark is an attempt to explain the discovery of fossils. From seashells on a mountaintop to dragon bones found by any means. I don't think with religion at that time being the authority on everything that anyone was going to come up with the theory of evolution. Again, common sense prevailed at that time, but its time to move on and start using it again.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

So NDS, what then do viruses have to do with your Darwinian morphing?

 

[nova900]

No matter how hard we study science no one will be able to predict our physical and mental state of mind after we die. And that is the fact. We will die and I am not going to leave it up to myself to determine what happens. I will trust the Bible.

Unless you consider many reports of near death experiences.
Anyways, Jim, perhaps you might find this site of interest. The site owner claims to be christian and much of his site of course comes from that perspective.

http://www.near-death.com/

 

[SnakeLord]

It is still a virus, no morphing into a new kind of creature, right?

But wait IAC, what if we use your argument and claim it's a "hyper mutt virus"? We can then follow the rest of your method, (refusing to explain what the hell a "hyper mutt" is while believing that this hyper mutt can give birth to several hundred different species within a very short period of time).

They are universal truths that apply to everyone who has ever existed. Rich or poor, man or woman, ugly or pretty, smart or dumb, young or old, black or white--need I continue?

Kindly cite some examles of these "universal truths"

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Still would have been a virus, right?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I think IAC means it doesn't become a giraffe or something other than a virus just as his pair of cats become other cats not alligators. His main contention is that God made all the critters in the world and after the flood a temporary but quick evolutionary era took place. Diversity was established post flood. Everything that crept was represented by one species of creature before the flood. One dog group, one cat group and so on down the line. Am I correct so far IAC?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I've edited the animal family groups from my original post. I don't think anyone can deny mammals, reptiles , amphibians etc. existed or am I wrong on that?

 

[w1z4rd]

The Atheist's Wager: "You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in God. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him."

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Noah had 120 years to build it with his three sons.

I heard a 100 tops, but who's counting. What part of the ark was completed first? 100 year old timber kind of loses its strength after a while. I'm staying on deck.

I believe the ark also had an altar for sacrificing animals, clean ones I think. I can never remember which ones are clean or unclean. Anyways the number of extra animals are noted somewhere in Genesis. I believe 5 or 7 critters but it might be 2 plus 7 for sacrificing. I guess if your not the selected pair it doesn't matter because you're going to roast to appease God, as if killing 99.999% of the world's creatures wasn't enough to keep Him happy. With all that rain I'm sure they had fun keeping the fires stoked let alone lighting them.

Poor Noah, as if committing 100 years to build a boat wasn't enough, he still had to build an altar. Not sure what God's priorities were, kill the world, build a boat, save a few good men or make sure the sacrifices get done. Do you think the animal sacrifices held more or equal status as compared to killing and saving them. Isn't it a bit ironic that the same God is asking Noah to save animals yet bring some extras along to be killed.

Wow!! What a fucking nightmare for that crew! Unbelievable. Between keeping countless animals alive they had to cut some up under extremely bad conditions.

 

[spidergoat]

JimHR,

You said: Why we can't see species evolving today?
I said: In fact we do.
You said: We can see one species evolve into another!?!

That was not your original question, we can see species evolve. But it is true anyway, we have observed a species being formed in the lab. The definition of species is a human one, not an absolute scientific rule. The definition of a species is: a set of living things with similar characteristics that do not naturally reproduce with living things outside this set. Scientists have bred fruitflies until they formed a type that could no longer mate with their original population, thus by the definition of species, they became a new species.

Why should I believe evolution if every time a species reproduces--it is still the same kind?

Because it happens gradually. We know this because of fossils. They are found in distinct layers corresponding to the time period they died. In older layers, there are no modern species whatsoever.

They have stood the test of time. They are universal truths that apply to everyone who has ever existed.

The bible contains some good advice about living, but it also points out the value of learning, and contains descriptions about the origins of life and Earth that are not literally true.

Well no wonder its hard for some to understand the end product. You don't know the source! Know the source then the end product will be understood. Come on man!

I know better than you think. Any assertion of fact can be considered independently of the source. As Galileo stated, if the bible seems to contradict scientific truth, it must be our interpretation of the bible that is incorrect.

If asked to consider the meaning of certain bible passages, I would suggest that they be understood in the context of the culture in which they were written. Also, I find the statements of Jesus to be of a different quality as the rest of the bible, containing some profound truths that unfortunately few realize, none of which contradicts evolution.

Evolution says species evolved from a completely different form into a brand new species.

That's just a part of it. Evolution describes how living things change over time. If a breeding population is isolated from the rest, it changes in ways that do not allow it to breed anymore, making it a new species. Eventually, it will change enough that it no longer resembles it's original species.

This is just like asking can I see the wind? Of course you can't. But you can experiment with, feel and SEE the effects of wind. Can't do that with evolution.

Yes, you can. You can see the effects in the fossil record. You can experiment with natural selection.

Wisdom and teaching is the understanding of God's character in these verses.

No, it says that's just the beginning. Why do you hate knowledge?

I feel sorry for you because you seem to believe that science will determine the destiny of our souls.

I don't think there is such a thing as a soul.

No matter how hard we study science no one will be able to predict our physical and mental state of mind after we die.

Not true. Science predicts that the mind is the product of the brain, which when dead, no longer functions. Death is the end. That is why you seek comfort in a limited and traditional interpretation of the bible, because you fear death. This was a comfort even to those Christians who were persecuted and tortured, but knowledge of our true origins isn't comfortable. It reveals that we are special, but only one of billions of species of animals that lived and died out on this planet, with no purpose or plan, alone in a vast uncaring universe.

Are you going to trust evolution's approach--to consume and enjoy and then we become nothing?

Evolution is a description of how life forms change. My personal purpose is up to me. I enjoy the freedom of that.

I hope you please ask God to reveal Himself to you. Try it right now. Will it hurt you?

I don't think of God like that. In this context what you ask makes no sense, like dehydrated water. God is inseparable from me and you and everything. It is not a literal personality. Any conception I could have of God would be merely a symbol. Jesus asked us to realize the kingdom of heaven, which is all around, but most do not see it. Paradise is here and now, let them that have eyes see. The God you describe is no more than a pagan idol in comparison.

 

[NDS]

Spidergoat, do you believe DNA Proteins can evolve, which means that an entirely new species can be formed over time through a process of altering or adding information to dna, not subracting it?

 

[JimHR]

wrong.
mithraism does.

Hey the DevilInside!! (what made you decide that name by the way?)

Thanks for responding. Well Mithraism is not a current religion--it died out. The truth will not die out. Jesus Christ is changing lives today as he has throughout history. That's pretty amazing--don't you think? So there is no religion today that professes a risen Savior.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." -Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:35

What's more--their religion is a secret order. Would that be fair of God to be totally inclusive of certain people? Plus they don't have the authority of the Bible.

"And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:4

Just a reminder that if you really want to know the answers to these questions they are in the Bible but you have to read it in context. Ask God to show you. Will it really hurt you? Please be open minded.

BTW have you ever tried following the teachings of the Bible? That is what I do. Please let me know.

 

[spidergoat]

Spidergoat, do you believe DNA Proteins can evolve, which means that an entirely new species can be formed over time through a process of altering or adding information to dna, not subracting it?

I think only a relatively small percentage of change in the DNA sequence can and does often result in new species.

 

[Satyr]

What if there were only a few animals and Noah inseminated them with his own seed to create all the species?

 

[spidergoat]

It was a supernatural event, why try to invent naturalistic explanations, anyway?

 

[JimHR]

JimHR.

Where did you get your degree in advanced palentology, genetics, etc.?

The point is, you are far from being an expert on anything related to advanced evolution (as am I). And clearly you have not done much of any research into the issue of evolution. You simply rationalize everything to support "The Bible."

We don't see "new" species being formed today because that takes literally millions of years. Humans have only been around for about 10 thousand. It's pretty clear why we haven't seen an entirely new species develop.

The Bible says each will reproduce after their kind because that is exactly what happens. Only dogs and reproduce with other dog type creatures. Only cats with cats. This in no way excludes the idea of "Darwinian Evolution."

Hey what's up NDS? I appreciate your responses. Well so what you are saying is that evolution is a theory of history and not science. We don't see "new" species because it happened in the past. Part of the scientific method is observation, right? It's interesting you note that humans have been around for about 10 thousand years--that's about as long as the Bible teaches.

Should an undeniable fact be discovered only with an advanced degree?

Each dinosaur fossil actually is a "transitional link" since one dino led to another, which led to another, and on and on. Mammals, by the way, were around during the reign of dinosaurs. In fact, we have dug up fossils which represent creatures which are part mammal, part reptile from the dino era. There is your "transitional link." If you had done the research, instead of using the Bible as your only source of scientific data, then you would have realized this.

Ok well please tell me the creatures you are talking about. But still you have not observed this transition taking place and those creatures could simply be a species that always was and never changed.

So you find a couple of bones out of the millions of supposed transitions and that's enough evidence? What about the birds and whales and insects? And more importantly humans? Where are our supposed millions of transitions? Do you know how complex the human is? We have organs that cannot function without the other. We need a brain, a heart, lungs, intestines, blood, bones... Undoubtedly we are complex. Not only that we love, hate, seek, design, create. To think that we evolved from one single microorganism--from dead matter by the way--into the vibrant living creatures we are now is pretty complex. How much have we evolved in this generation of ours? And just look at how much evidence we've left behind.

"all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation. For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Evolution is simply an attempt to take God out of the public schools.

And even if you could explain how life began, how can your "science" provide observable, empirical and measurable evidence for what does or does not happen after death?