How can God not exist?

Status
Not open for further replies.
YoYoPapaya said:
Plenty of reasons. To comfort fear of death. To explain what is yet inexplicable. To control the primitive masses and make them adopt a behavior that is beneficial to society/the rulers. I'm sure someone can think of more.

To give life meaning + see above.
Click to expand...

But in order for there to be fear, there needs to be a reason.

For example, for a long time, people didn't wash their hands much, because they didn't know about dangerous bacteria. They didn't fear having unwashed hands, they saw no reason for fear of dangerous bacteria because they didn't know them.
If you walk up a flight of stairs and you don't know that one of them isn't firm, you will walk firmly.

So in order to be afraid of death, there had to be some reasoning that preceded it.

As for "giving life meaning" - that suggests that prior to the appearance of religion, life was considered meaningless. Why, on the grounds of what was it considered meaningless?
 
Jan Ardena said:
There are other ways to create this control.
Why go to the extent of creating an imaginary being.
I'm trying appeal to your sense of reason here, as I'm sure you can
think of less dramatic ways to acheive these goals.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

propaganda-propaganda-election-rally-left-right-political-poster-1287482879.jpg




Moreover, how exactly do religions control people? Who exactly benefits?
Especially given that in all major religious traditions all people are placed far beneath God, and everyone is considered subject to God's judgment.

In all systems for social and cultural control that are apparently invented by man, there are actual persons who are in the positions of beneficiaries, these persons have names and faces. Whether it is the Aryan race or a cult leader.
But a system where God is in the position of the beneficiary and everyone else a subject/servant, individual humans are not in the position to actually benefit from controlling others.

There is aof course the subversion of religion for political purposes, but this is another matter.
As far as theism is concerned, God is on top and everyone else is beneath.
 
Signal said:
But in order for there to be fear, there needs to be a reason.

For example, for a long time, people didn't wash their hands much, because they didn't know about dangerous bacteria. They didn't fear having unwashed hands, they saw no reason for fear of dangerous bacteria because they didn't know them.
If you walk up a flight of stairs and you don't know that one of them isn't firm, you will walk firmly.

So in order to be afraid of death, there had to be some reasoning that preceded it.

As for "giving life meaning" - that suggests that prior to the appearance of religion, life was considered meaningless. Why, on the grounds of what was it considered meaningless?
Click to expand...



Survival instinct is the reason. All animals have it.
 
Signal said:
Exactly.



Yes totalitarian regimes can conveniently replace religion with a person cult, where deity is replaced with a person. Like North Korea for instance.


Moreover, how exactly do religions control people? Who exactly benefits?
Especially given that in all major religious traditions all people are placed far beneath God, and everyone is considered subject to God's judgment.

In all systems for social and cultural control that are apparently invented by man, there are actual persons who are in the positions of beneficiaries, these persons have names and faces. Whether it is the Aryan race or a cult leader.
But a system where God is in the position of the beneficiary and everyone else a subject/servant, individual humans are not in the position to actually benefit from controlling others.
Click to expand...


televangelist.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jan Ardena said:
Again, I ask you to explain why would someone create a non-existent being to believe in?
Click to expand...

It is still as others have said and I have said, that it provides the emotional comfort of being taken care of, both here and in an afterlife. This doesn't make it so, plus you even have a being modeled after humans—the strict family father figure of the times.

You have an infinitely advanced Being as the first. This can only come later, in the far flung future, if at all.
 
SciWriter said:
It is still as others have said and I have said, that it provides the emotional comfort of being taken care of, both here and in an afterlife. This doesn't make it so, plus you even have a being modeled after humans—the strict family father figure of the times.

You have an infinitely advanced Being as the first. This can only come later, in the far flung future, if at all.
Click to expand...

Only an insane person would take comfort in an illusion or suggest to others to take comfort in something they know to be an illusion.

What you are suggesting is that people are basically insane.

:mad:
 
SciWriter,

It is still as others have said and I have said, that it provides the emotional comfort of being taken care of, both here and in an afterlife.
Click to expand...

What both you and others have said seems devoid of scientific or philoosophical input, but if you insist on this line of reason then I will continue.

Did the human being immediately desire an ''afterlife'', or, did the notion of the afterlife ''evolve''?

This doesn't make it so, plus you even have a being modeled after humans—the strict family father figure of the times.
Click to expand...

1) humans aren't eternal
2) humans didn't create the universe
3 humans are physical creatures

Where would the notion of ''strictness'' and it's relation to a ''father family figure'' come from?
Where in the animal kingdom (assuming evolution) are these traits to be found?

[qYou have an infinitely advanced Being as the first. This can only come later, in the far flung future, if at all.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this part, could you explain it please?

jan.
 
YoYoPapaya said:
Survival instinct is the reason. All animals have it.
Click to expand...

So you're saying man invented God in a bid to aid his survival?
Why did he suddenly feel the need to invent the non-existent to survive?
What were the circumtances that lead to this move?

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
So you're saying man invented God in a bid to aid his survival?
Why did he suddenly feel the need to invent the non-existent to survive?
What were the circumtances that lead to this move?

jan.
Click to expand...

I'm saying he invented God because his survival instinct makes him fear death. With the invention of God, he doesn't have to fear death as much. I don't know if it aids him in survival, but I'm sure it will put his mind at ease so he can worry about day to day things like getting food on the table and such.

The circumstances you ask? Human ignorance and fear of death and the unknown. Those are also the things that are keeping religion alive today. Hopefully that will change.
 
YoYoPapaya,

I'm saying he invented God because his survival instinct makes him fear death.
Click to expand...

Very unlikely as such an invention wouldn't quell his fear.

Thanatophobia, or fear of death, is a relatively complicated phobia. Many, if not most, people are afraid of dying. Some people fear being dead, while others are afraid of the actual act of dying. However, if the fear is so prevalent as to affect your daily life, then you might have a full-blown phobia.
Click to expand...


With the invention of God, he doesn't have to fear death as much.
Click to expand...


Then his ''survival instinct'' as you put it, is not so much a fear of death, but
of what occurrs after death.
I assume that at one point in man's evolution we accepted death as the end of existence, and the way to carry on was to produce off-spring.
So where and when did this fear of what occurrs after death take hold?


I don't know if it aids him in survival, but I'm sure it will put his mind at ease so he can worry about day to day things like getting food on the table and such.
Click to expand...


My contention is, how did he get to the point where he was so worried about
''getting food on the table and such....'', that he had to invent something like God to get him through the turmoil.

I find that when people are in desparation to find food they either accept their fate, or they become extremely selfish, lose compassion, lose their empathy, and become totally irrational. If they invent anything, they invent reasons why their actions are justified, not completely brand new concepts that are so brilliant, humans in the future are still in awe of it.

The circumstances you ask? Human ignorance and fear of death and the unknown. Those are also the things that are keeping religion alive today. Hopefully that will change.
Click to expand...

That's probably the ''religion'' you know.
Which probably why the current anti-religion groups are so
fervent in their cause.
It certainly explains the lack of reason in area of discussion. :)

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
YoYoPapaya,



Very unlikely as such an invention wouldn't quell his fear.
Click to expand...

Nobody said it was rational


Then his ''survival instinct'' as you put it, is not so much a fear of death, but
of what occurrs after death.
I assume that at one point in man's evolution we accepted death as the end of existence, and the way to carry on was to produce off-spring.
So where and when did this fear of what occurrs after death take hold?
Click to expand...

After the point in our evolution where our brains grew big enough to start thinking about such things and put them into some sort of language, no we didn't accept it. That's why we invented religion Example of ancient religion. It is only of late that people are starting to wake up.



My contention is, how did he get to the point where he was so worried about
''getting food on the table and such....'', that he had to invent something like God to get him through the turmoil.
Click to expand...

You're not quoting my honestly (I'm very surprised).
I'll answer this when you have reread my post and asked a question related to what i REALLY wrote.

I find that when people are in desparation to find food they either accept their fate, or they become extremely selfish, lose compassion, lose their empathy, and become totally irrational. If they invent anything, they invent reasons why their actions are justified, not completely brand new concepts that are so brilliant, humans in the future are still in awe of it.
Click to expand...

It's funny how you think it's so brilliant. It's not even very creative. A magic man that looks like man, talks like man and to some extent acts like man. The only difference is he's infinitely powerful. Like huh??? If somebody wrote a piece of trash fiction like that today, I'm sure it wouldn't sell well. Lord of the Rings is way more creative.

That's probably the ''religion'' you know.
Which probably why the current anti-religion groups are so
fervent in their cause.
It certainly explains the lack of reason in area of discussion. :)
Click to expand...

The lack of reason in the debate comes from believing in unnatural things. You can't have a reasonable debate about religion. What would you say to me if i brought you a stick and said it was magic and could disintegrate people if i pointed at them and said the magic word?
 
YoYoPapaya said:
Then his ''survival instinct'' as you put it, is not so much a fear of death, but
of what occurrs after death.
I assume that at one point in man's evolution we accepted death as the end of existence, and the way to carry on was to produce off-spring.
So where and when did this fear of what occurrs after death take hold?
Click to expand...
After the point in our evolution where our brains grew big enough to start thinking about such things and put them into some sort of language, no we didn't accept it. That's why we invented religion Example of ancient religion. It is only of late that people are starting to wake up.
Click to expand...

Wake up - to what, and from what?
 
YoYoPapaya said:
Yes totalitarian regimes can conveniently replace religion with a person cult, where deity is replaced with a person. Like North Korea for instance.
Click to expand...

This still doesn't address the supposed control issue of religion: Who benefits with the invention of God? Who gets to control people with the invention of God?
- Given that in a theistic system, everyone is beneath God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top