How can God not exist?
- Thread starter Jan Ardena
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Yes
The one you tried to debunk with your link.
jan.
Enlighten me.
If that is a request, my response is; it's not my job to enlighten you.
However we can make progress if you at least respond honestly to post
258.
Whaddaya say, uh...?
jan.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
How I am supposed to respond if I don't know what point you are making?
By the way, weren't you just banned for doing what you are doing now?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
You made aclaim by posting that quote.
If you deny that, that's fine. But then there would not be much to respond to.
K
keith1
Guest
Think about it.
1)[SOUND OF THUNDER CLAP]
2)Initial human response:Fear of danger and unknown; Shock and awe.
3)Repeat many times:[SOUND OF THUNDER CLAP]
4)Secondary human response: No danger; normalize; curiosity; possible conclusions; daydream; embellishment.
The quote undeniably speaks for itself, IOW, it's not my own concoction, and
I understand that it is uncomfortable for those who do not aggree with it.
However, it does exist, and we can't change that.
I'm willing to accept that my claim ''the atheist religion'' could have been
construed as ''ALL atheist'' fall into that scope. But to be fair to myself, I did state that atheism is as much a religion as theism in that their definition primarily relates to belief or lack of, in God, not religion.
My questions to you is an amendnent to that implication, if you like.
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.
In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.
Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.
Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
Taken from Wikipedia.
jan.
a) why do you relate that conditi on of fear to every human being?
b) is it possible that fear of thunder (if apparent) would subside after a few times?
c) why invent something that does not exist to quell the fear?
why not just rationalize it?
I didn't understand point no.4.
jan.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Well, apparently it doesn't..
If that wasn't the point of it I don't know what is. Atheism is neither a belief nor a religion, not in a broad sense anyway.
You are very much aware of the reason of why it was ruled a religion.
I agree with your quote below.
But you don't seem clear on what constitutes religion.
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
If anything in that definition applies to any specific person (who is an atheist) then that is additional to his or her atheism, not part of it.
A simple belief in, or lack of belief in, God does not in itself make one religious.
Enmos,
That is exactly my point.
And the term ''atheist religion'' described the type of religion, that these people
who are atheists, take part in.
And for that I got banned? :shrug:
jan.
That is exactly my point.
And the term ''atheist religion'' described the type of religion, that these people
who are atheists, take part in.
And for that I got banned? :shrug:
jan.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Enmos,
That is exactly my point.
And the term ''atheist religion'' described the type of religion, that these people
who are atheists, take part in.
And for that I got banned? :shrug:
jan.
Well, if that is what you meant then you kind of failed to make that clear.
And, still, the term 'atheist religion" is a misnomer because, as you admitted, it implies to cover all atheists. Atheists are a diverse group who, as a group, believe in all sorts of things not related to god. As such it is erroneous to speak of "the atheist religion".
Theists have, besides their god-inspired religion (which not all theists have by the way), also a host of beliefs unrelated to god. What would you think was meant if someone brought up the term 'theist religion'?
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I asked myself a question just a moment ago. It was "in what tangible and recognizable way does my atheism become apparent in my day to day life?". The answer is that it only becomes apparent when confronted with theism, and even then only if the situation warrants some kind of response to it.
Well obviously you weren't paying attention.
I continuosly stated that I had given adequate explanations, but
obviously those comments fell on deaf ears. Here's a brief run-down:
In post 85, I state my analasys of the forthcoming state of religion,
implying atheism as opposed to theism will be the order of the day.
Then in post 86 Dwy.. wades in with a reply, stating my analasys
was in need of a dictionary, asking what about the rise in atheism.
Then in post 88 I asked; ''you mean the atheist religion?''
(Note the question mark)
Then in post 89 the moderator waded in with an agreement to Dwy..
dictionary thing. :shrug:
And the whole thing started from there.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=107132&page=5
I never actually said ''atheism is a religion''.
In post 121, I was accused by the moderator of being intellectually
dishonest and disingenuous. Which was not a correct analasys IMO.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=107132&page=7
also..
post 125 I specifically stated that ''atheist religion'' was to be understood in
relation to page 5 post 85, not in the overall meaning of atheism.
and finally, in post 131, i made it clear to Dwy.. that all atheists were not
included in my analasys, in the same way all theists are not included in being
religious.
And, there were occasions when you were accusing me of trolling even
though you clearly hadn't been following my point.
But anyways, at least we have come to an understanding.
jan.
To engage in any intelligible discourse, the meaning of terms must be understood by all parties; that's why we have dictionaries.
What is correct, is how the term is predominantly used; its orthodox interpretation.
Preceding this of course is the strict linguistic meaning granted to a term as established by historical convention. Thus, as has been pointed out nuumerous times, "atheist religion" is a contradiction in terms....
Because there can be no such thing as more than one standard.
To argue otherwise is to support a contradiction in terms.
And now, to all:
Is there any way we can dispense with the semantic issue here and remotely get back on topic??
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Jan, it is easy, and mandatory, for God not to exist, for the concept is self-contradictory. God, as proposed, is a massive system, even an infinite one, and these cannot be elemental or fundamental. Please say how God can have been just sitting around forever, intact, before anything else, and how He was already made and defined without ever having been made or defined.
In light of this scientific forum, magic cannot be employed.
In light of this scientific forum, magic cannot be employed.
glaucon,
My dictionary definition of religion;
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs
As previously pointed out by me, the first part of this definition, up until the word ''especially'' is not contingent on the supernatural.
The term especially, while giving significance to the supernatural, does not
mean that such ''a set of beliefs...'' must require supernatural ideas.
That being said, an atheist can have a set of beiliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe without supernatural agents.
jan.
.
My dictionary definition of religion;
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs
As previously pointed out by me, the first part of this definition, up until the word ''especially'' is not contingent on the supernatural.
The term especially, while giving significance to the supernatural, does not
mean that such ''a set of beliefs...'' must require supernatural ideas.
That being said, an atheist can have a set of beiliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe without supernatural agents.
jan.
SciWriter said:
''God as proposed'' I take it, means a trancendental, spiritual being as described in any scripture. Right?
What are you comparing ''God'' with when you use the term ''massive''?
As you have already refered to ''God'' as ''as proposed'', meaning ''spiritual''.
To then insert that God ''...cannot be elemental or fundamental'' is a contradiction.
spirit; the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
You're contradicting yourself by pressuming that ''God'' is bound by time, like
the universe He is purported to have made (''God as proposed'').
If however, you insist that ''God'' is a material being, thus being under the control of material nature, then you must give an explanation as to how this is so, in light of ''God as proposed''.
jan.
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