Homosexuality and Religion
- Thread starter Thoreau
- Start date
Grantywanty we all know that it is possible to condition the human mind. We generally think of this a negative description. Yet conditioning happens in the armed forces, in school in church, while you're watching the TV or listening to your parents.
Behavior is changable. That's a fact. Emotions are also changable. Some change what the like quite decisively between the ages of 19 and 25. (Women notably) but choice is also a very effective way to effect change.
I'm not attempting to force you to be hetrosexual. Only you could have that drive an motivation. I've dealt with a lot of people and animals and I've noticed with the right motivation you can do anything.
I've been watch this "intresting" argument for sometime now. The main ingredient to the kettle is choice. Why would you chose to like vanila over chocolate if you know you like vanila better? That's the real question.
Apple or Oranges
Sweet Potato or Pumkin Pie
Saquist, I can't help but think that reading your post only supports my position. The type of conditioning that you mention in your first paragraph is environment. For the most part, real control over this is out of our hands, especially in the first decade and half of our lives. So whatever preferences someone happens to develop because of whatever conditioning they've experienced in those years, can you really say they chose to have those preferences?
With the right motivation, Reiku can become a heterosexual then? What's your definition of right motivation?
I understand that you seem to be completely incapable of honestly responding to points made.
I would say so. (@ Reiku)
I speak from experience. I didn't get out often and while I'm not very social I didn't quite know what to do when I got sexual advances from men or women. When I was about 21 I was preasured by a younger man into a sexual experience. I just froze and let it happen. It wasn't forced but if I had it to do over again I wouldn't.
There were consequences. I felt guilty and so I proceeded to confess to my congregation leaders. I was punished accordingly. Strangley I had no fear of those consequences. I did respect what they had to say and I definitely respected the punishment.
I speak from experience. I didn't get out often and while I'm not very social I didn't quite know what to do when I got sexual advances from men or women. When I was about 21 I was preasured by a younger man into a sexual experience. I just froze and let it happen. It wasn't forced but if I had it to do over again I wouldn't.
There were consequences. I felt guilty and so I proceeded to confess to my congregation leaders. I was punished accordingly. Strangley I had no fear of those consequences. I did respect what they had to say and I definitely respected the punishment.
The logic in your original post might suggest that you respected that punishment because you wanted that punishment. That all these thoughts are choices that happened to agree with or develop because of whatever conditioning you received as you were growing up.
I respected the punishment for one very simple reason. I didn't excercise control. It took years for me to realize that one way or another I had control over what I felt and my behavior I was just out of practice.
What you said previoiusly really makes a point that I agree with. You said. For the most part, real control over this is out of our hands, especially in the first decade and half of our lives.
This happened to me. I discovered my Father's hidden stash of sex tapes. One day (still to this day without his knowledge) I used his keys to unlock that drawer in his desk right before he went to work for the night. Let me ya for a 13 year old kid 20 tapes each eight hours long each of XXX material is lot of work to do undercover.
I know this is the reason why I have the sexual appeitite I have. It was unmolded an undirected view of the most hardcore material a child could be exposed to. I had a choice but as a kid we often don't excercise choice we excercise desire. And that is the no choice you're refering to.
That's a personal question one he and only he can answer.
I can't disagree with that. Isn't orientation just another way of saying.."The position I've taken"
Though, what repection did you have to accept? I need to ask... sorry
I was stripped of my responsibilities and privleges in the congregation for the better part of a year and a half. It was that long most likely because of myself and how I felt.
The difference between your position and Reiku's is that Reiku thinks he can't change his sexual preference even if he wanted to because it's genetic.
Those are question I had to answer. It's true. Can I give you a definitive answer? Probably not. I can tell you that I made a choice. That choice was that I wanted to have children and a family that depended on me. I wanted to raise my son correctly with a father and a mother involved. I wanted to see how it was supposed to be done. That was a very strong desire that prevented me from leaning in the other direction.
The other direction I would have none of that. No kids, a son nor a daughter. No wife...I don't blink at what I left. It held only a physical promise. I wanted a family and memories and posterity to pass it off to.