Holy texts should be respected by scholars

[superluminal]

Sorry sammy old pal, but it really, really pisses me the royal blue fuck off when I read theists blaming humans for not feeding the children while shouting "allah akbar!" or "praise jesus!". It's absolute bullshit of the highest fucking order. No offense. I think we're all better than that. And you can engage in all the mental olympics you want to justify it to yourself. Dosen't matter. In the long run we'll either evolve better natures that don't rely on nationalistic fervor to bind us or unfounded hope for a universal father figure to save us. That or we'll just stay stuck where we are, fighting over petty ideologies of all sorts, wallowing in our own blood. allah akbar. praise jesus. Yeah. That helps.

 

[S.A.M.]

No problem super; you are welcome to your beliefs; but theists don't just sit around blaming God, you know. I don't know if you know this, but all Muslims give 2.5% of their discretionary income as zakat. It is a compulsory part of the religion. The zakat is usually food, clothing or other necessities and is distributed among the needy sections of society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakat

Being religious does not mean crying allaho akbar while people are dying around you. It means recognising the difference between right and wrong and doing the right thing as far as possible.

 

[superluminal]

No problem super; you are welcome to your beliefs; but theists don't just sit around blaming God, you know. I don't know if you know this, but all Muslims give 2.5% of their discretionary income as zakat. It is a compulsory part of the religion. The zakat is usually food, clothing or other necessities and is distributed among the needy sections of society.

Sweet. So, why are there hungry people? And just why oh why is it compulsory? Atheists give of their own free will all the time.

Being religious does not mean crying allaho akbar while people are dying around you. It means recognising the difference between right and wrong and doing the right thing as far as possible.

Hmm. Sounds just like humanistic atheism to me. But without the dogma.

 

[S.A.M.]

In addition we also give sadaqah, which is over and above the zakat, and is given to anyone you want to help.

Besides this we have a tradition called hadiyah, which means gift, and we usually give hadiya to people who work for us and it can be as little or as much as you can afford.

Also, during occasions like births, weddings, funerals, we have to feed an x number of poor people ( we usually arrange for a one time meal at an orphanage we know).

In Ramadan, every evening when it is time to break fast, we aarange food for poor people who are fasting and may not be able to afford the special foods that are characteristic of Ramadan ( like dates, fruits, juices etc).

 

[S.A.M.]

Sweet. So, why are there hungry people? And just why oh why is it compulsory? Atheists give of their own free will all the time.


Hmm. Sounds just like humanistic atheism to me. But without the dogma.

It is compulsory for the same reason that fasting in Ramadan is compulsory and driving under the speed limit is compulsory.

Everyone should have some boundaries.

 

[superluminal]

In addition we also give sadaqah, which is over and above the zakat, and is given to anyone you want to help.

Besides this we have a tradition called hadiyah, which means gift, and we usually give hadiya to people who work for us and it can be as little or as much as you can afford.

Also, during occasions like births, weddings, funerals, we have to feed an x number of poor people ( we usually arrange for a one time meal at an orphanage we know).

In Ramadan, every evening when it is time to break fast, we aarange food for poor people who are fasting and may not be able to afford the special foods that are characteristic of Ramadan ( like dates, fruits, juices etc).

Sounds to me like we need more muslims in the world.

 

[S.A.M.]

Why are there hungry people?

Because people would rather spend billions of dollars on war than a few millions on peace.

Priorities are so blurred that there is no distinction between what is right or wrong.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sounds to me like we need more muslims in the world.

Islam is a social religion; but it has been badly misappropriated and abused.

It makes me very sad.

 

[superluminal]

Islam is a social religion; but it has been badly misappropriated and abused.

It makes me very sad.

I imagine it would. The world would be a better place if you were the president of muslimism. Islam. Whatever.

 

[superluminal]

Why are there hungry people?

Because people would rather spend billions of dollars on war than a few millions on peace.

Priorities are so blurred that there is no distinction between what is right or wrong.

See? It's all people. Where is god in this equation? Watching? Analyzing? Waiting for someone to, for gods sake, please him?

Here's a nice quote from a good sci-fi movie "The Chronicles of Riddick":

"You don't understand father. I absolutely believe in god. And I absolutely hate the fucker".
- Riddick

 

[S.A.M.]

And do you notice that the richer we get, the better our standard of living, the less we actually care about anything except ourselves?

 

[superluminal]

So you don't believe in God and yet you expect him to rescue the world?

Of course not silly girl! I'm attempting to point out the absurdity of believing in a god while at the same time having the slightest awareness of the world around you. Of praising jesus or allah for... what was it - I forget, while insisting that PEOPLE solve their own problems. A little girl is murdered. Those murdering bastards. A little girl is saved. Praise GOD! So just what is the formula for calculating the percentage of gods involvement in an event anyway?

 

[superluminal]

And do you notice that the richer we get, the better our standard of living, the less we actually care about anything except ourselves?

Yes. It acts as insulation from the tragedy of others. The more comfortable we are, the less concern we have for the plight of others. We gradually lose the ability to empathise unless it affects us directly.

 

[S.A.M.]

Of course not silly girl! I'm attempting to point out the absurdity of believing in a god while at the same time having the slightest awareness of the world around you. Of praising jesus or allah for... what was it - I forget, while insisting that PEOPLE solve their own problems. A little girl is murdered. Those murdering bastards. A little girl is saved. Praise GOD! So just what is the formula for calculating the percentage of gods involvement in an event anyway?

Well I don't know about other people but I always think that God gave us the will to choose between right and wrong; so even if I say Thank God, I'm not really diminishing the contribution of the person who did it. I mean Thank God that person had the strength or whatever to do the right thing. But if he does the wrong thing well he obviously made the wrong choice, so he is responsible.

 

[superluminal]

Well I don't know about other people but I always think that God gave us the will to choose between right and wrong...

This is always a fun one. So why does god allow me to exercise my free choice to do harm to innocents? Minding their own business, leading good, quiet lives. Bang! Cut down because of my free will. What about their free will to live peacefully?

It's god's plan you say? Then where was the free will? Ha! It's a logical carousel with no escape.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes. It acts as insulation from the tragedy of others. The more comfortable we are, the less concern we have for the plight of others. We gradually lose the ability to empathise unless it affects us directly.

This is something about the Western culture that makes Muslims very uneasy; it goes against the teachings of the Quran and many of them feel uncomfortable associating themselves with it ( I'm talking about people not brought up in the West). The most common comments I used to hear about the West were, they put their parents in homes when they no longer need them ( Arabs are fiercely protective of their parents, esp mothers), they divorce ( divorce is pretty uncommon in Muslims); but they also appreciate the basic freedoms that most people in the West enjoy ( not surprising if you consider that in Islam all men are equal before God so nobody not even the king has a special status, except for his money, of course).

 

[baumgarten]

Of course not silly girl! I'm attempting to point out the absurdity of believing in a god while at the same time having the slightest awareness of the world around you. Of praising jesus or allah for... what was it - I forget, while insisting that PEOPLE solve their own problems. A little girl is murdered. Those murdering bastards. A little girl is saved. Praise GOD! So just what is the formula for calculating the percentage of gods involvement in an event anyway?

Going from what I remember of Catholic theology, God is in everything that is good (the words have the same etymology, I believe); it would be natural to praise him for any good thing happening, even though clearly no giant arm has reached out of the clouds and forced something to occur.

Alternatively, if your god is the creator of the universe, then he is by definition the reason why there is anything, so you can thank him for anything you want. Thank God for food, good grades, the bikini bathing suit (60 years of hawt!), getting hit by a car ten months ago, anything you want.

Maybe there is a misconception that God is supposed to be a giant man with a downy beard and eyes like Limecat. Or maybe it is my misconception that he is not. There are many definitions of the word, and seldom are two participants in a conversation using the same one.

 

[S.A.M.]

This is always a fun one. So why does god allow me to exercise my free choice to do harm to innocents? Minding their own business, leading good, quiet lives. Bang! Cut down because of my free will. What about their free will to live peacefully?

It's god's plan you say? Then where was the free will? Ha! It's a logical carousel with no escape.

Okay; let me explain the concept of destiny as it is in Islam ( I thought your read all my posts?)

In Islam, human beings are not completely the masters of their fate nor are they the puppets of destiny (qadar). We have limited power but great freedom, including the freedom to choose.

We cannot know our future and, to a large extent, we cannot control it. But we can make decisions within the limits of what we can control, based on our understanding of the way the world works. That is the reality — the “laws of nature” — we have to deal with.

Just as Allah created nature and its laws, He made moral laws, and we cannot claim any injustice if we get punished for disobeying or ignoring those moral laws.

The concept of qadar, therefore, indicates that we must seek harmony with God’s rules of human nature and nature at large, and consciously submit to His will. Destiny as conceived by Islam, therefore, does not take away our freedom of choice and action. We have the freedom to wilfully choose our action so it is in harmony with nature and its laws.

From an Islamic point of view, human beings are free for all practical purposes. A person has no excuse for making the wrong choice and then blaming qadar or destiny.

But our duty is to strive for the best in this world.

 

[S.A.M.]

Going from what I remember of Catholic theology, God is in everything that is good (the words have the same etymology, I believe); it would be natural to praise him for any good thing happening, even though clearly no giant arm has reached out of the clouds and forced something to occur.

Alternatively, if your god is the creator of the universe, then he is by definition the reason why there is anything, so you can thank him for anything you want. Thank God for food, good grades, the bikini bathing suit (60 years of hawt!), getting hit by a car ten months ago, anything you want.

Maybe there is a misconception that God is supposed to be a giant man with a downy beard and eyes like Limecat. Or maybe it is my misconception that he is not. There are many definitions of the word, and seldom are two participants in a conversation using the same one.

In Islam God has no form or shape, he is like light all around us and all encompassing

 

[General_Paul]

I say we torch all religious texts and move on with our respective lives. To hell with holy texts, they should all be burned, all religion has ever done is divide people and justify the mass slaughter of millions of innocent people, no matter how good the religion is, eventually some nutcases take it and twist it into something that isn't at all what the creators of said faith meant to make in the first place.