Heterosexuality is unnatural

[Avatar]

"95% percent of men have a sexual need for other men"

O.K., it's not possible to talk about exact percentage, but let's say a majority of men have a sexual attraction for men.

So what is it then? A majority is 51%, you've everywhere else stated 95%
From where the figures? Imagination? Personal experience doesn't count, make an anonymous pool as c20 suggested. I know how I'll vote.

I pray to god to give me success in this important endeavour to bring out the truth.

I doubt anyone cares about your 'truth'. Maybe only the weak, oppressed individuals who are governed by their penis. It seems that your god is sexual pleasure. For each his/her own I guess.

 

[Buddha1]

More Evidence of all pervading pressures that affect a person psychologically

Bisexualtiy amongst young women rising

More women --- particularly those in their 20s --- are experimenting with bisexuality or at least feel more comfortable reporting same-sex encounters*, according to a new report from the Centres for Disease Control.

The survey, released on Thursday by the CDC's National Centre for Health Statistics, found that 11.5 percent of women, ages 18 to 44, said they've had at least one sexual experience with another woman in their lifetimes, compared with about 4 percent of women, ages 18 to 59, who said the same in a comparable survey a decade earlier.

For women in their late teens and twenties, the percentage rose to 14 percent in the more recent survey. About 6 percent of men in their teens and 20s said they'd had at least one same-sex encounter.

It wouldn't surprise Kat Fowler, a 27 year old art student who dates both woemn and men, if men were less likely to talk about their experiences. "There's a certain higher level of discrimination (for men). It's a lot easier for women to have these kinds of experiences and be open about it because it's more accepted" said Fowler, who attends the University of Florida.

When it comes to women and same-sex relationships, experts say it would be worth studying why young women seek such relationships, and whetehr they may be trying to avoid diseases more commonly spread through sex with men. (My comments: note how the experts, like good servants of the heterosexual ideology, try to explain away same-sex bonds --- they can't admit that women have always wanted to do that, its only that they feel freer to try that now!).

But some experts say it's even more likely that many college students simply see experimentation as a rite of passage. (My comments: The problem is heterosexuals and homosexuals, though they are a minority hold power and speak as the spokesperson of the heterosexual society --- they see the world as they are, so for the life of it cannot understand why straight people would seek same-sex relationships! --- the media too gives them prominence, so does the institution of science.) "It's very safe in the academic community; no one thinks anything of it," said Elayne Rapping, a professor of American studies at the University of Buffalo who has written about sexuality.

The trend among College women has prompted some sexual behaviour experts to light-heartedly refer to the term "LUG" (My comments: The west! it can't breathe without sexual identities; by the way you have similar identities amongst men: 'exploring', 'gay-friendly', and what not!) or "Lesbians until graduation", said Craig Kinsley, a neuroscientist at the University of Richmond who studies the biology of sexual orientation and gender (It would be too much to expect them to study the correlation between heterosexuality and femininity (lower levels of masculinity) in males).

 

[Buddha1]

If the survey was anonymous, what pressure would there be on anyone to lie? It seems to me that an internet survey would be a very good way for you to collect data Bhuddah1. Why don't you start by holding an anonymous poll/survey here?

Question for Heterosexuals : Do you have or have you had strong sexual feelings for other men?
Yes or No?
peace
c20

Either you're completely unaware about the pressures men face and how they play the part of social masculinity roles to the hilt --- or you're deliberately trying to make it sound so simple.

Did you not read Giambatista's experiences --- and how he noticed that the man that was drawn to him acted as if there was no such thing, even when he was all alone --- as if there was an unseen eye watching his every move? Another evidence here .

And that men after they convincingly establish their social identity as a 'heterosexual' after killing their sexual needs for men, as well as the other sacrifices they have to make to fit into that identity, do not want to acknowledge that they ever had to go through trauma to fit into heterosexuality. After an age, it all seems meaningless because now they can't establish relationships with young straight men (by now they have developed a terrible distaste for it!). And besides they now have made a great deal of investment in their families and children. So if my experiences of working with older men is anything to go by, they will not acknowledge the truth.

Many men start relating with the heterosexual identity --- even with their own contradictions --- and would do anything to uphold it --- lying is no big deal. Have you ever heard the theory that victims start relating with their oppressors/ capturers. It's psychological.

A parrot who has always lived in a small cage, considers that cage to be his only natural home and the outside real, free world is indeed unsafe for him. He would always, always vouch for the cage. And he actually loves the people that captured him because they feed him, and take care of his needs. Little does he realise how cruel their owners have been to him.

The number of people reporting same-sex behaviours in western societies have slowly gone up. It means that they were earlier hiding the truth which they are now decrlaring. Evidence here .

NO, C20, I don't think such a survey would bring out the truth.

 

[Buddha1]

So what is it then? A majority is 51%, you've everywhere else stated 95%
From where the figures? Imagination? Personal experience doesn't count, make an anonymous pool as c20 suggested. I know how I'll vote.

I doubt anyone cares about your 'truth'. Maybe only the weak, oppressed individuals who are governed by their penis. It seems that your god is sexual pleasure. For each his/her own I guess.

What does a male who wears jewellery and hangs only with the females know about men? We are not talking about women here, we are talking about men. As per your own statement, you don't know much about the subject neither do you care!

The 95% is from my personal + work experience. But I have never used that as a contention, only as an observation. I will contend only what I can prove. And I'll prove only what I contend.

And don't worry, I'll not try to prove a figure like 51%. It will be close to 95%. I'm not contending to prove 95% because I know that surveys don't work in these cases. (Actually, I've never conducted them, so I don't know they might work. But if my experiences are anything to go by, then people have strong motives to lie, and I've already given evidences of those pressures. So you can't deny them.)

 

[c20H25N3o]

NO, C20, I don't think such a survey would bring out the truth.

Then you are refusing to look at something that ought bear out your assertions if they are correct. A poll is anonymous. Nothing to lose for those who take part. If they have had strong sexual feelings, they suffer nothing by admitting it in an anonymous poll.

I know that surveys don't work in these cases.

Actually, I've never conducted them, so I don't know they might work.

Comon then. Give it a go. What have you to lose?

peace

c20

 

[spidergoat]

What? That's insane, it's probably more like 5%.

 

[Buddha1]

Then you are refusing to look at something that ought bear out your assertions if they are correct. A poll is anonymous. Nothing to lose for those who take part. If they have had strong sexual feelings, they suffer nothing by admitting it in an anonymous poll.
Comon then. Give it a go. What have you to lose?

When I can see that you have kept a gun on a man and want him to admit that the sky is red, you think I'm gonna ask that man if the sky is really red, and expect him to say no!

I have a valid reason for saying that surveys don't work in such cases. And I've given evidences.

If you have so much faith in my contention being untrue, then why do you not want to look at the sea of other evidences?

 

[Avatar]

Posting in big, red letters doesn't make your argument more true or false.

 

[Buddha1]

No, but it ensures that the other person bent on avoiding key sentences can no longer avoid them!

 

[spidergoat]

There's no reason someone would lie on an anonymous survey. Certainly the Kinsey report revealed that there is a wider variety of behavior going on than most people admit publicly, but there is no support for a 95% figure.

 

[Buddha1]

There's no reason someone would lie on an anonymous survey. Certainly the Kinsey report revealed that there is a wider variety of behavior going on than most people admit publicly, but there is no support for a 95% figure.

You're new to the whole issue. I suggest that you go through other threads that have been discussing this issue thread bare, particularly "Pressures of heterosexuality":

- There is no heterosexuality in nature

- Heterosexuality is queer

- Pressures of heterosexuality

- Is heterosexuality natural?

- Heterosexuality is harmful, unethical and immoral

- Heterosexuality is unnatural in humans too
-

 

[Avatar]

Why don't you write a huge book on this topic, then distribute it on the internet?

 

[Buddha1]

Why don't you write a huge book on this topic, then distribute it on the internet?

Will a book be better than this very interesting discussion site?

Seriously, all these bickerings tell a lot about our outer society, and is indeed very educating. Besides there would be no fun without opposition, if everyone just agreed.

I plan to have a site of my own. But this discussion site is very very educating indeed. I've learned so many new things just discussing with you guys. It especially helps me in putting together my thought process when someone challenges me. And even the disruptive ones prepare me to deal with similar oppositions that I may encounter in the future.

Plus of course, it gives me an opportunity to overcome my weak points. I'll keep in mind your suggestion though.

 

[Avatar]

Just a suggestion, seeing how much you write on this topic.
A book would also be a good reference for you and other parties in the discussion, because then you would not have to point them over many threads throughout the forum. You'd have all the evidence, arguments, etc., you need neatly written, organized and ready.
My suggestion has nothing to do with you not discussing this topic in this forum.

 

[Buddha1]

I know.
In fact for the last three years I have been writing my thoughts, observations, ideas etc. down on paper. I wanted to share them with others, and this forum gave me an chance to discuss them with a western audience. It's totally different when I discuss them with people here though I rarely got this opportunity in the past two years --- as my group is currently closed down. I've spent this time researching history, religion and other topics.

 

[Buddha1]

It's totally different when I discuss them with people here.

I remember when in the beginning we used to have these poster stalls, discussing many issues around masculinity, sexual health, HIV/AIDS etc., and hordes of people would gather around the poster supporting (at that time we called it homosexuality, because we believed that is what it was!) -- crowds ranging from 30 to 50. In every crown that size we would have one person opposing our support for homosexuality --- and would make a disparaging remark. But the other men there would respond back so angrily that we really did not have to do much.

I have seen things change over the years as our sountry is slowly being heterosexualised by the western media.

 

[Quantum Quack]

sorry I couldn't resist.
In all these threads on The contention that heterosexuality is unatural etc, all I see is a form of reverse homophobia.

Buddha1, not only do you defame one of the worlds greatest philosophers with your handle you demonstrate a extreme need to justify your own sexual preferences.

To say that it is unatural for men to dream and fantasize about relations with women is unatural is just meerly reflecting your own bigotry.
Why is it unatural to fantazise about relations with women?
Why is it unatural to fantazise about relations with men?

Whats wrong with just being you and your preferences?

You argue constantly that homosexuality is more natural because it is reflected in lesser animals etc. This is an invalid arguement. Humans are more than just guided by their instincts, they have the intelligence to make decisions about their instinctive sexual preferences [ with regard to sexual needs] where as animals have not such ability.

There is also the basic pleasure aspect of it all as well.
A woman provdes certain pleasures with her organs that a man can not possibly provide. Need I go into detail? Suffice to say that a rectum is a poor excuse for a vagina when it comes to actual pleasure.

Also on a more humorous note it could all come down to ecconomics.

In that a woman provides three orifices to untilise where as a man provides only two. Three holes is better than two.

I think personally you have not had the opportunity to know what lusting after a woman feels like. Of course if you are gay the mere thought of being with a woman seems repugnant. Such is the way your hormones are focussed. Your repugnance of being with a woman is very similar to a hetero's repugnance of being with a man.

So if you read all your posts and change the wording so that it reads "anti gay" you will see that the same arguements can be used by a homophobe as well. Such is the focuss of your sexual preferences.

Where you fail to understand is that your zeal to promote the cause of homosexuality is just reflecting your confusion as to the question:

"Why do men find women attractive if they are so repulsive to me?"

As you can not answer this question because your hormones wont let you you have made the asssumption that all men are the same as you in their confusion. Of course this is totally bunk.

Try having full sexual and love relations with a woman and come back and tell us why you couldn't.

 

[Huwy]

What so your last thread on this exact same issue failed, so you've started a new one? Sounds like you've done that before. That's pathetic.

 

[Giambattista]

thou Art Persistent!

 

[Giambattista]

Like I've stated before, I cannot verify 95%. I may be much more accepting of these theories (or laws?) and my approach more liberal, but 95% seems to be phenomenal!

Kinsey and other studies, when factored together give a grand total of predominantly homosexual males anywhere from around 2 to as high as 15 percent. The highest figures according to some researchers may not be high enough due to fear and pressure, and refusal to acknowledge.
When people are simply asked to grade their amount of sexual attraction on a scale, the numbers for both those who are predominantly same-sex attracted and those who admit to some moderate attraction seem to fall between 20 and 30%.

Given also that at least one study showed an unusual amount of homoerotic arousal for men who were considered to be quite anti-homosexual (or the term homophobic will work), and that although to a lesser degree, a fairly significant number of non-homophobic men also registered arousal. The arousal was categorized as none, semi-aroused, and significantly aroused.
All men self-identified as being heterosexual.

They were given a test to determine the amount of anxiety/fear/hatred they expressed towards homosexuality in general to determine which group they were in (homophobic and non-homophobic). Then they were shown different types of pornography, both heterosexual and homosexual, and a special apparatus was used to monitor the degree of penile erection.

Overall arousal for the homophobic group was quite a bit higher than the less hostile group. The researchers considered that maybe internalized homophobia (revulsion and disgust at their own latent or suppressed feelings) was a source of their anger. Curiously, they also considered that maybe part of the arousal came from their disgust, and somehow their intense aversion to homoerotic activity actually served to heighten their stimulation, for whatever reason that would be.

The degree of arousal in both groups, who again self-identified as heterosexual, does very much add credence to the other studies that at least 20 - 30 percent are bisexual to homosexual in nature. At least.

Now, whether it's 95% or not, that to ME sounds improbable.

But from all I've read and experienced, and by the sheer fervor and conviction of Buddha1 for his mission, I'm willing to go beyond 30%. How much further depends on Buddha1 and his work with other men. :bugeye:

Now, he CLAIMS he is a counselor, and that he has been studying this aspect of male psychology for a while. I cannot vouch for the validity of what his occupation truly is, or his experiences in this occupation with these young men and their testimonies. (I believe the word testimony is related to the word testicle. Now whaddya think about that?!?!?) I did ask him for some related information about what exactly he does and maybe to read some papers he's written for conferences, lectures, etc. He seemed reluctant, but apparently he's a little wary of revealing his identity. I don't blame him for that. All I can say, is that I've found this topic extremely intriguing since I stumbled onto it, and I probably am more willing to believe his ideas than most people on here. I think he's greatful at least ONE person is trying to take him seriously!!!

I feel like writing more at this time, but I'm not sure whether to put it here, or in the Pressures of Masculinity thread, or both! He jumps around alot.