God's authorship self evident???

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

My dad smoked since he was 14, 2 packs a day for most of that time & died at 86.
I knew a smoker who died 4 years ago at 84 & had lost 1 lung at 74.
I could go on & on. Yeah, they're dropping like flies.

Tho it has nothing whatsoever to do with your comment or my response to it.

 

[fiicere]

double post

 

[fiicere]

I think if god wrote a book he would not wait 100 years after the stuff happened( supposedly) to wright it. Do you know how inaccurate that makes it?
Think about how much you know about Andrew Jackson now write his book.

Where are you getting this figure from?

The earliest pieces we have from the bible postdate Jesus by about as much as we postdate Andrew Jackson, it's true, but that doesn't mean that the bible was written at the same time as our earliest fragments.

Actually, given how sparse actual historical data is on anything from that time, it's surprising we even have 100 years. The earliest copy of the Caesar's Gallic Wars, the document with the third best manuscript history IN HISTORY has it's earliest fragment dating from about 1000 years after Caesar's death.

But, in case anyone is wondering, the estimate for the book of Acts, for example, is 66AD, even though we have no manuscrips until just after 200 AD.

Besides, your analogy is further flawed by your ignoring the fact that word-of-mouth traditions were the norm in those days, and disciples and students of famous teachers would often memorize their teacher's speeches word for word, and make their disciples do the same. Try asking what the world's top 4 experts on Andrew Jackson together know about him, and you'd get something a lot more thorough.

 

[swarm]

My dad smoked ...Yeah, they're dropping like flies.

That's stupid and you really should know better than to propose outliers negate the mean.

 

[swarm]

Reading accounts by religious fanatics about their mythic leader is no way to find out anything honest about him.

 

[Michael]

wouldn't you think that IF pictures of smokers' lungs were printed on cigarette packs all over the world, say the most gruesome and ugly pictures imaginable on planet earth, smokers of ALL cultures, ALL times, ALL walks of life would stop smoking?

I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone who don't know that smoking increases your chances of having lung carcinoma.

Buddhist meditation will increase your hippocampal volume and you'll be mentally happier - now you know, are you going to start meditating? Probably not...


My point here is that the question is about SELF EVIDENT.


I think Swarm hit nail on the head - God must be thinking to humanity: F*ck Off.

 

[Michael]

I'd just also like to point out - no book exists that is self-evidently written by God.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

But Michael, The Holy Babble says it's written by God.

My dad smoked since he was 14, 2 packs a day for most of that time & died at 86.
I knew a smoker who died 4 years ago at 84 & had lost 1 lung at 74.
I could go on & on. Yeah, they're dropping like flies.

Tho it has nothing whatsoever to do with your comment or my response to it.

That's stupid and you really should know better than to propose outliers negate the mean.

That is ignorant & arrogant.
I did not propose outliers negate the mean.

 

[scifes]

I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone who don't know that smoking increases your chances of having lung carcinoma.

hard pressed? ever cared to count doctors who smoke? university professors and students? are you being realistic?

Buddhist meditation will increase your hippocampal volume and you'll be mentally happier - now you know, are you going to start meditating? Probably not...

why yes i will, show me how..

besides, i think this is what they call a straw man, everyone would care not to die with ugly lung cancer, it's also undoubtedly proven, and is unavoidable.

but what concerns us is what's in bold, something being evident does NOT mean people should or do follow it, which as your straw man fails, Buddhist meditation is not undoubted.

so not only have i proven my point, but also got out of the maze you laid out for me.

god's real word is self evident, people following it or not means not that the word is at fault, but that the humans are, illogical, stupid, ignorant, arrogant, but you can sum it up nicely by saying it only shows they have choice, to be given a tool(the brain) and a situation demanding the use of that tool(evidence) and not using it only means the power of choice given to humans.

My point here is that the question is about SELF EVIDENT.

why the Buddhist example then?

I'd just also like to point out - no book exists that is self-evidently written by God.

i'd just also like to point out - a book exists that is self-evidently written by God. and it's called the quran, you've wasted hours of my time coming up with answers to your riduculous claims against it with stupid conditions making the answers harder to get, and when i do bring them as you asked you do nothing with them, you are here only to argue.

you never though one would actually go through the process of spoon feeding you, did you? best you can do now is just ignore my posts.

 

[Michael]

scifes,

You are the one building a strawman.

Let me ask you this. IS it possible for GOD to write a book that any person in the world could read and KNOW it was written by God?

Is God powerful enough to create such a book? Or is god not all powerful? Which is it?

Michael

PS: So it has nothign to do with humans, this is all about God. And no such book exists.

 

[fiicere]

scifes,

You are the one building a strawman.

Let me ask you this. IS it possible for GOD to write a book that any person in the world could read and KNOW it was written by God?

Not without resorting to the metaphysical, no. Essentially, I don't believe any book could convince EVERYBODY it was written by God merely on its own weight. I have a friend who believes the real world, the world we can see, anyways, doesn't actually exist. He believes he's in another world and is dreaming. The human mind is amazingly capable of stretching its beliefs.

If you allow for altering the human mind, then, of course, making us believe anything is possible. It does kind of defeat the purpose though.

Is God powerful enough to create such a book? Or is god not all powerful? Which is it?

Neither. You'd assume that creating such a book is in God's interest. That seems roundabout at best. God could just have created humans to innately know all about him, and screw the book.

 

[Dub_]

Not without resorting to the metaphysical, no.

You're right, it couldn't be done without resorting to the metaphysical or supernatural. But why is that a problem? We are talking about God, after all. Presumably he could get as supernatural as he pleased, if he was so inclined.

I'm not sure why the question in the OP even requires debate. If we accept the premise that God is omnipotent, then the answer to any question of the form "could God do X?" must always be Yes. It doesn't have to make sense, and in fact it often doesn't.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Neither. You'd assume that creating such a book is in God's interest. That seems roundabout at best. God could just have created humans to innately know all about him, and screw the book.

Your petty conceited childish god prefers to play muddled mindgames.

 

[Michael]

So, we agree it could be done - but, as of yet, it hasn't been done. No book in existence was written in such a way so as God's authorship is self-evident.

 

[mike47]

So, we agree it could be done - but, as of yet, it hasn't been done. No book in existence was written in such a way so as God's authorship is self-evident.

There is no evidence that there is a god somewhere .
If by definition and assumption only there is a god then he would write the perfect book to be understood by all humans otherwise he will be just another oxymoron . .

 

[Doreen]

There is no evidence that there is a god somewhere .
If by definition and assumption only there is a god then he would write the perfect book to be understood by all humans otherwise he will be just another oxymoron . .

He will be a two word noun where the two words contradict each other?

Interesting that you know what a God would do if one existed. How did you test this idea of yours?

 

[scifes]

scifes,

You are the one building a strawman.

Let me ask you this. IS it possible for GOD to write a book that any person in the world could read and KNOW it was written by God?

yes it is possible, everything is possible for god, it's what the word means.

not all people can read, but if god wanted to create a book to be read by anyone no matter what, again, he can.

and yes, people would KNOW it is from god, why not follow it then? because as i said before, they have choice. why do people smoke?

Is God powerful enough to create such a book?

yes he is, god is supposed to mean all powerful.

Or is god not all powerful? Which is it?

of course it's the first one.

Michael

PS: So it has nothign to do with humans, this is all about God. And no such book exists.

and smoking heals asthma.

I'm not sure why the question in the OP even requires debate. If we accept the premise that God is omnipotent, then the answer to any question of the form "could God do X?" must always be Yes. It doesn't have to make sense, and in fact it often doesn't.

good point.

Your petty conceited childish god prefers to play muddled mindgames.

hey, he's your god too, and he'll put you in hell if you don't play along.

 

[mike47]

He will be a two word noun where the two words contradict each other?

Interesting that you know what a God would do if one existed. How did you test this idea of yours?

Assuming that there is a god who is the creator of course . Then he must be the perfect designer since what he created is tremendously complex . So it will be fair for such an intelligence to be fair to the people and writes a book to be understood by all his creatures ( meaning humans ) . Just follow logic and no surprises .

 

[Doreen]

Assuming that there is a god who is the creator of course . Then he must be the perfect designer since what he created is tremendously complex .

So one rule you have is that if someone creates something tremendously complex they are perfect.

I don't see how you could prove this. It seems to me that people who are capable of creating vastly more complex things than other people are often just as fallible and no more perfect. I don't know how you calculated this one.

So it will be fair for such an intelligence to be fair to the people and writes a book to be understood by all his creatures ( meaning humans ) . Just follow logic and no surprises .

Again you are claiming to know what an entity quite unlike you would do, what the rules are in any possible such universe.

 

[mike47]

So one rule you have is that if someone creates something tremendously complex they are perfect.

I don't see how you could prove this. It seems to me that people who are capable of creating vastly more complex things than other people are often just as fallible and no more perfect. I don't know how you calculated this one.

Again you are claiming to know what an entity quite unlike you would do, what the rules are in any possible such universe.

Life aspects such as laws are taken from common sense, reason and logic . It will be unjust and stupid for a creator to write a book for his humans and makes it hard for them to understand . So I believe from reason that if god writes a book it will be easy for everyone to understand . Look....no one needs to teach us sex....and many other things as they are instincts . God could have made us believe in him in the same manner .
The Catholics call their god father....do you think your father will make your life miserable with a complex book ?. .