God does exist.

[Squid Vicious]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
God is immaterial.

Indeed he is. Inconsequential, and irrelevant.

Everything (everyone...?) that is outside the universe, or multiverse or whatever is imaterial, therefore, God is outside the universe (and inside too...).

If you can't convince 'em, blind 'em. Leave 'em casting about trying to figure out what the hell you were on about.

And I'm still a mystery for both theists and atheists...

Completely agreed.

I just look at the same things with different perspectives. I'm able to see a cup as half-empty and half-full at the same time. My brain is capable of analizing (sic) things in different perspectives all at the same time. won't bother with this "sentence" For example, once I carried a conversation in the net with three different people. or this one...by the way, in my experience most people tend to be a little different from each other With one I spoke in English, with the other in French and with the other in Portuguese. My brain was able to process the three completly (sic) different conversations with the same ease as if it were one... and I didn't messed up (mess up?) or made (make?) any mistakes...

One can only assume that when you posted this, you were carrying on 12 different conversations with 6 different people. We all have our limits.

WHat I'm trying to do is to "prove" God's existance with scientific facts. In other words, I'm trying to explain my reality in the matters of yours. I'm trying to speak your language, to show you in your own perspective what I see so clear in my side...

Just as well I'm not your teacher and you're not being graded on this then, isn't it? A regrettable drawback with the internet... no rubber stamps with a huge big "F" to mark this with...

 

[Imperial]

God

God does exist, do you think someone would waste time writing the Bible, just so people could belive in something that doesn't exist? No, it would be pointless.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

many people also waste time writing books that god doesn't exist...does this mean god doesn't exist or are they just really wasting their time?

or is it just that wasting time by people is not a very good argument?

 

[Xelios]

"God does exist, do you think someone would waste time writing the Bible"

Why would anyone waste their time writing a fictional book would then be your question. Obviously, many people write fictional books, most people don't want to waste time, so the logical conclusion is that writing books is not a waste of time, fictional or not. Have you heard of those Star Wars cults out there that base their religion on the Force? I could argue (using your reasoning) that the Force must exist, because no one would write a book about it if it didn't.

 

[MarcAC]

Originally posted by Frencheneesz
...would you take it as an insult if I said "it is bad that you are a fat idiot"? Because that is the implication of an insult.

Nope. Well, I guess if I considered being a fat idiot was bad and I were a fat idiot, yes.

You seem very closed minded yourself,

We are all close minded in our own rites French. For me it is good.

I don't think I want to talk to you anymore because you cannot accept that gods nonexistance is a possibility.

I can never accept God's non-existence as a possibility. In that rite, and that only, I am VERY close-minded - I'm a kind of Fox Mulder - as long as God exists almost anything is possible - but probability plays a large part.

You are typical of most religious people,

Typical? That doesn't say anything. Please expound.

and you have a real problem with definition.

We all have problems with definitions - thus the existence of a dictionary to try and standardise. Yet we still tend to use words out of context (you included)

Start looking things up.

I told you already French; I always look things up, thus I avoid mistakes. You should do likewise - especially in the biblical context.

 

[MarcAC]

Please...

It is quite a craven act when one deliberately uses jargon to obfuscate the "house of cards" nature of their arguments.

 

[MarcAC]

The collapse of the function

Originally posted by Raithere
The problem with probabilities is that success relies entirely upon the number of iterations. As low as you want to assume the probability is, if there are an infinite number of Universes, each with a random set of laws, the chance that one will have the laws of this Universe is guaranteed.

Thus there could not have been an initialy probability; according to earlier arguments posted.

We can also note that the probability is quite high since we're here observing it. If it were much different we would also be different or not here at all.

There is no probability

The problem with the anthropic principle argument is that it puts the cart before the horse. We evolved within the parameters of the laws of physics the laws of physics do not fit themselves to us. To say that it is wildly improbable that the Universe conforms to our needs is like saying that it is wildly improbable that the pan conforms to the shape of the cake... it's backwards.

Correct! Theists [well... Christians] assume God controls all physical laws. Thus God could have directed those physical laws to favour our existence. Many scientists do assume now that the universe is quite 'friendly'[can't think of a better word] to the emergence of life [Thus the emergence of astrobiology]. Why should it be?

 

[wesmorris]

LOOK... the existence of god is irrelavent.

OBJECTIVE TRUTH:

No human being knows the answer. (and nobody knows what happens when you die besides the obvious either) You may talk all the trash you want, debate it till the stinking sun burns out but as of this moment on planet earth, the answer is not known. If it were, there'd be no debate right? Seems obvious.

APPARENTLY THEN:

If they tell you they do, they are a liar or mentally ill. To exist as a human being is to be agnostic. Everyone else is lying. It's a matter of definition.

Sure are a lot of stinking liars in the world eh?

I've been toying with a theory that Jesus and Muhammed (sp?) and the likes were all quite mentally ill. I mean, think if today someone tells you he is the son of god? WHAT? Jeez I'd say "well, yeah I spoze if you say so there uh.. GUY. but uh.. no more so than I. (unless of course your father is associated with the CIA or NSA in which case of course you are and I have to go)"

why religion then?

Well, I call it social lag. (in other words, a lot of religious people preceded us, thereby making a lot of religious people)

and 2 concurrent major contributors:
religion = phat dollars
religion = social control

Any death threats? Reasonable retorts? Anything? Watchoo got?

 

[Raithere]

Re: The collapse of the function

Marc:
I'm tossing the rest of the conversation for the moment because I think we're hitting on a key point in this portion.

Originally posted by MarcAC
Many scientists do assume now that the universe is quite 'friendly'[can't think of a better word] to the emergence of life [Thus the emergence of astrobiology]. Why should it be?

Let me ask you a similar question: It snowed today; why should that be? Well, we can go into the scientific explanation... the atmospheric conditions, etc.

Or we can reexamine the question, because you have an underlying assumption that is implicit rather than explicit that we need to bring out and address. Now, I'm not trying to be condescending here so please do not take offense but do you know what that implicit assumption is in your question?

~Raithere

 

[Voodoo Child]

God does exist, do you think someone would waste time writing the Bible, just so people could belive in something that doesn't exist? No, it would be pointless.

LOL, why would God write the bible if he didn't exist?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Squid Vicious,

One can only assume that when you posted this, you were carrying on 12 different conversations with 6 different people. We all have our limits.

I'm not in one of my good times... It's already impresive that I've survived...

 

[renegade21]

HUH????

well I love science better than anyone , but GOD does exist, But So does the DEvil; So BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!http://www.talonstar.com

Let the damned be damned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wesmorris]

Answers and Objective Truth

there is truth to the emotion that is the belief in god. the feeling is indeed truth. it is NOT however.... FACT in any more of a sense that the fact that there was an emotional experience. attempts to attach and make assumptions about the factual implications of the stated emotional experience is well, kind of naive and silly. It would actually I believe be an expression of denial as to the inability to logcially solve the problem "why is everything so cool" and "why do I exist" or "why does everything suck" or whatever the subjective fundamental quandry whereby the human brain's ability to provide context for itself bridges the required emotional gaps created by the emotions (which are unquenchable, since the question cannot be logically answered) attached to the questions.

boing.

 

[Frencheneesz]

Truthseeker:

"God is immaterial. Everything (everyone...?) that is outside the universe, or multiverse or whatever is imaterial, therefore, God is outside the universe (and inside too...)."

Does god exist? You seem to think so. Thus he is in the universe and only in the universe. Since my definition is that the universe consists of EVERYTHING in existance (whether mental, or phisical, spiritual, or material). You either agree with me, or you don't have any logic whatsoever. I gave you my definition and going by that you MUST agree. God cannot be outside of everything, because he himself is part of that everything. Get the notion?

"He follows His nature, which is goodness."

So? Are you agreeing that god is governed by natural laws? Do remember that "good" is an OPINION and should NOT be used in this discussion. What is good for one is not for another. If someone considers the human race to be "evil" than killing us off might seem "good" yet the norm is in obvious contradiction.

MarcAC:

"We are all close minded in our own rites French. For me it is good."

Are you implying that it is ok for YOU to be closed minded but not so for me?

"I can never accept God's non-existence as a possibility."

Why not? Don't be closed minded, how can you praise yourself for being closeminded. This is the main point right here, the possibility (and probability) of gods non-existance.

I, for one, accept the possibility that everything I know to be true is wrong. I accept that my world may be an illusion, I accept that my reasoning my not be sound.

You seem to think you are perfect and that there is no possibility that you are wrong. If this is truely correct about you, you are an ignorant fool. Don't get me wrong, all I have to go on is what you say and what you imply to me. And you're saying that you cannot accept the possibility that you are wrong, pitiful.

 

[mohamed]

It's all explainable without God in the picture.

and who create the power of nature. who create the gravity and the atmosphere. and who create the atoms and the substance either oxygen or nitrogen or carbons , iron who create this?
isnt alaah?

 

[Imperial]

God, of course

I know people write fiction books, and no I didn't hear of a Star Wars cult that believes in the force. Most books haven't been around as long as the Bible has. The Bible has detailed events of what has happened, and what will happen. Most fiction books that talk about aliens say that there are signs, do we see them? No. Scientists have found pieces of Noahs ark that are real, can someone show me a piece of an alien spacecraft that's real? No. There may be life out there beyond our solar system, I very highly doubt it, but there may be. If there was life beyond the Milky Way, the Bible would have probably mentioned it. That's all for now.

 

[MarcAC]

The collapse of the function...

Originally posted by Raithere
Marc:
[...] Let me ask you a similar question: It snowed today; why should that be? Well, we can go into the scientific explanation... the atmospheric conditions, etc. [...] Now, I'm not trying to be condescending here so please do not take offense but do you know what that implicit assumption is in your question?

~Raithere

The implicit assumption in the question how can it be that the universe developed with a disposition towards the emergence of life. O.k. I assume that the 'pan is conforming to shape of the cake' right?

 

[MarcAC]

Stop projecting your thoughts unto others... please...

Are you implying that it is ok for YOU to be closed minded but not so for me?

No. You implied that by stating that being close-minded was bad. You cannot convince me to accept the non-existence of God as a possibility. There my mind is closed - and I don't have a problem with it.

I, for one, accept the possibility that everything I know to be true is wrong. I accept that my world may be an illusion, I accept that my reasoning my not be sound.

You have a completely open mind. Good for you. I can't do that due to the truth of God's existence - this is where you struggle to understand faith in truth. Be careful, however, there is a an almost invisible line between open-mindedness and insanity.

You seem to think you are perfect and that there is no possibility that you are wrong. If this is truely correct about you, you are an ignorant fool. Don't get me wrong, all I have to go on is what you say and what you imply to me. And you're saying that you cannot accept the possibility that you are wrong, pitiful.

If I thought I was perfect I wouldn't be a Christian. No. I do not say that I cannot accept the possibility that I am wrong. I state I cannot accept the possibility of God's non-existence. You seem to think that God's existence depends on what I believe - errant assumption - so don't pity me - I don't think I deserve it or want it for that matter.

 

[dkb218]

How arrogant man has become to think that he is the creator of himself! What has man created? He only tries to explain that which God has created, calls it science and then attempts to explain away the existence of God. Poor misguided fools! How arrogant we have become. Do you not see the unity in this creation? Are you so blinded by your own arrogance to see the truth in front of you and within yourselves?

 

[wesmorris]

Re: God, of course

Originally posted by Imperial
If there was life beyond the Milky Way, the Bible would have probably mentioned it. That's all for now.

The bible would mention life beyond the Milky Way? I'm just dumbfounded at the ignorance and well... come ON. You have a freakin BRAIN. It's your GIFT. USE IT. Makes me sad.

(I'll not explain the bible here, but here's a little flavor for you... and the time the pieces of the bible were written the Earth was believed to be the center of the entire universe (which is of course it turns out, unimaginably HUGE. You think the bible what? You need to open your head dude. Wow)