God does exist.
- Thread starter Daiel Hegarty
- Start date
I could use your comment "you have a brain" or what not, but I won't. If you have ever read the Bible, you would know that there are profhecies that point to today. I could argue that they didn't have technology, but in a vision, Ezekial, I think, saw technology that they didn't have then. With that in mind, if there was life, living breathing life, I'm sure the Bible would mention it somewhere somehow. My suggestion to "Wesmorris" would be to, if you haven't already, read the Bible very carefully.
Imperial,
For regular people the detailed events seemed to be nothing better than well written poetry, their vagueness, lack of focus, and solid evidence that can be applied to the physical world mean that those seeking physical evidence to back up the claims of a ficticious book are out of luck.
Please provide evidence of any wreckage from Noah's ark. By evidence, I mean conclusive evidence that will be, under no circumstances, called into question if we, the atheists and non-conformists have a look at it.
If the writers of the Bible knew what we do today, they wouldn't have written the bible. They would have written something that is tangible, something that makes sense.
I wonder...why is it that you doubt the existence of life in the universe? You must concede that there are at least bacteria or exotic microscopic organisms existing on other worlds, asteroids etcetera. But I think that you're afraid of other intelligent life. You're afraid that, if we ever find them, they'll provide the one piece of evidence that we athiests have been searching for since our minorities began to expand: that which will disprove the bible, and archaic religions as a whole, entirely and conclusively. They might not even be advanced, it could just be a simple philosophy of their society that does the trick. But with so many possibilities of intelligent life, so much the better chance of there being an idea or theory to disprove what some people cling to more than basic logic itself.
Time to start my first religion thread in awhile...
For regular people the detailed events seemed to be nothing better than well written poetry, their vagueness, lack of focus, and solid evidence that can be applied to the physical world mean that those seeking physical evidence to back up the claims of a ficticious book are out of luck.
Please provide evidence of any wreckage from Noah's ark. By evidence, I mean conclusive evidence that will be, under no circumstances, called into question if we, the atheists and non-conformists have a look at it.
If the writers of the Bible knew what we do today, they wouldn't have written the bible. They would have written something that is tangible, something that makes sense.
I wonder...why is it that you doubt the existence of life in the universe? You must concede that there are at least bacteria or exotic microscopic organisms existing on other worlds, asteroids etcetera. But I think that you're afraid of other intelligent life. You're afraid that, if we ever find them, they'll provide the one piece of evidence that we athiests have been searching for since our minorities began to expand: that which will disprove the bible, and archaic religions as a whole, entirely and conclusively. They might not even be advanced, it could just be a simple philosophy of their society that does the trick. But with so many possibilities of intelligent life, so much the better chance of there being an idea or theory to disprove what some people cling to more than basic logic itself.
Time to start my first religion thread in awhile...
I agree that there are bacteria and other forms of life, that don't have living breathing tissue that you and I do. My whole point was, if God could show Ezekial a vision of the future, then why wouldn't he say anything about life being on other planets, or solar systems for that matter. Another question for athiests would be: if there was a big bang of some sort, who or what set off this unbelievably enourmous explosion? Where did this huge bomb come from, someone had to create it right? Just to be one step ahead of whoever replies to this, I wonder who or what created God too, but the huge explosion is unbelievable to me. You people have your views, and I have mine. My goal isn't to persuade anyone to convert to Christianity, I'm just trying to make a point. Besides, I didn't think my first reply would make it this far. My question to "Pollux V" or something like that is, what do you believe in?
Imperial,
Just think about what I'm about to say. You consider what god did to Ezekial as fact, when in reality its factuality is debatable. I can't consider this a valid point then.
The Big Bang is flawed, because it doesn't really explain the origin of the universe at all. The answer to your question is that we have no answer. We'll probably have one eventually, but at the moment we're still in the dark as to our humble beginnings.
There are more intelligent races in our universe than all the bacteria or micro-organisms on earth that live now or have ever lived. The priveleged few that have seen our civilization are probably laughing their pants off, because we're taking so damn long to think logically as a whole. It's taking time, but slowly religion is being phased out by science. Ever since it began religion has been dying, because every few years or decades someone comes along with a new idea that completely obliterates the foundations of what people took seriously moments before he told everyone about his idea. This trend will only continue, because that's all it can do.
Just think about what I'm about to say. You consider what god did to Ezekial as fact, when in reality its factuality is debatable. I can't consider this a valid point then.
The Big Bang is flawed, because it doesn't really explain the origin of the universe at all. The answer to your question is that we have no answer. We'll probably have one eventually, but at the moment we're still in the dark as to our humble beginnings.
There are more intelligent races in our universe than all the bacteria or micro-organisms on earth that live now or have ever lived. The priveleged few that have seen our civilization are probably laughing their pants off, because we're taking so damn long to think logically as a whole. It's taking time, but slowly religion is being phased out by science. Ever since it began religion has been dying, because every few years or decades someone comes along with a new idea that completely obliterates the foundations of what people took seriously moments before he told everyone about his idea. This trend will only continue, because that's all it can do.
Imperial:
"Most fiction books that talk about aliens say that there are signs, do we see them? No. Scientists have found pieces of Noahs ark that are real, can someone show me a piece of an alien spacecraft that's real?"
Most bibles talk about angels, and heavens, and hells, and something called a god.. It is amazing that theists cannot accept that there is a possibility that they are wrong, such ignorange. Even if they continue to be adement believers in god, the acceptance that they could be wrong is a must for intelligent people, especially when someone spoon feeds them the concept....
By the way, ever hear of historical fiction? Thats what the bible is (most likely of course).
"dkb218"
How arrogant man has become to think that he is the creator of himself!
yes of course, I forgot to tell everyone. I am god! How could I forget that. :bugeye:
Show me one sane atheist that thinks he is "the creator himself"....
"if God could show Ezekial a vision of the future, then why wouldn't he say anything about life being on other planets, or solar systems for that matter."
Aside from the fact that god doesn't exist, perhaps god thought we need not know. Perhaps there wasn't enough time to teach such vast knowlege to ezekial. Perhaps ezekial was simply to stupid to be able to pack so much information inside his head. perhaps the information was givin to him, but he could not spout all of it out in time before he died with the knowlege. Very many reasons, but who says ezekial actually existed (besides the bible anyway)?
"if there was a big bang of some sort, who or what set off this unbelievably enourmous explosion?"
You really believe that there has to be a "who" that did things, don't you. Please tell me who put a leaf on your roof. Tell me who makes earthquakes, tell me who makes water evaporate. Does god have to be involved in everything? What if god did not exist, what would not be able to occur if he were not here?
"Most fiction books that talk about aliens say that there are signs, do we see them? No. Scientists have found pieces of Noahs ark that are real, can someone show me a piece of an alien spacecraft that's real?"
Most bibles talk about angels, and heavens, and hells, and something called a god.. It is amazing that theists cannot accept that there is a possibility that they are wrong, such ignorange. Even if they continue to be adement believers in god, the acceptance that they could be wrong is a must for intelligent people, especially when someone spoon feeds them the concept....
By the way, ever hear of historical fiction? Thats what the bible is (most likely of course).
"dkb218"
How arrogant man has become to think that he is the creator of himself!
yes of course, I forgot to tell everyone. I am god! How could I forget that. :bugeye:
Show me one sane atheist that thinks he is "the creator himself"....
"if God could show Ezekial a vision of the future, then why wouldn't he say anything about life being on other planets, or solar systems for that matter."
Aside from the fact that god doesn't exist, perhaps god thought we need not know. Perhaps there wasn't enough time to teach such vast knowlege to ezekial. Perhaps ezekial was simply to stupid to be able to pack so much information inside his head. perhaps the information was givin to him, but he could not spout all of it out in time before he died with the knowlege. Very many reasons, but who says ezekial actually existed (besides the bible anyway)?
"if there was a big bang of some sort, who or what set off this unbelievably enourmous explosion?"
You really believe that there has to be a "who" that did things, don't you. Please tell me who put a leaf on your roof. Tell me who makes earthquakes, tell me who makes water evaporate. Does god have to be involved in everything? What if god did not exist, what would not be able to occur if he were not here?
Frencheneesz,
Depends on what you say that is the universe. If you say that the universe is everything that exist, then God must be inside it. If you say that it is evrything phisical that exist than that is another story...
The Bible says what is "good" and bad"....
Imperial,
I do believe the Bible will not be the only book God will give to us. I believe that the Bible is just the first one of many. It would be pointless for God to tell us that there are others like us out there. I believe that if there are, then He will tell us later, after the second coming...
Depends on what you say that is the universe. If you say that the universe is everything that exist, then God must be inside it. If you say that it is evrything phisical that exist than that is another story...
The Bible says what is "good" and bad"....
Imperial,
I do believe the Bible will not be the only book God will give to us. I believe that the Bible is just the first one of many. It would be pointless for God to tell us that there are others like us out there. I believe that if there are, then He will tell us later, after the second coming...
MarcAC:
"You cannot convince me to accept the non-existence of God as a possibility. There my mind is closed - and I don't have a problem with it."
This is the essence of ignorance. I've heard many a christian preach "open your mind [to god of course]", yet you seem quite closed to the very issue at hand.
If you cannot accept the possibility of your error, there is nothing to debate with you.
"I can't do that due to the truth of God's existence - this is where you struggle to understand faith in truth. Be careful, however, there is a an almost invisible line between open-mindedness and insanity."
Very profound, yet it means almost nothing. Open-mindedness does not mean acceptance... Who can be insane if they are open to the idea that their little insane world might possibily be an illusion?
What, exactly, makes you believe that there is no possibility that you are wrong? The height of arrogance is thus, when one cannot admit to possibility.
"I do not say that I cannot accept the possibility that I am wrong. I state I cannot accept the possibility of God's non-existence."
So you CAN accept the possibility that you are wrong? If that is the case, then you MUST accept the possibility that your knowlege of god's existance is also wrong.
"You seem to think that God's existence depends on what I believe"
Course it doesn't. But you seem to think that it IS POSSIBLE for you to know something without the possibility of error (namely the existance of god).
Can you please state to me why you think that you cannot be incorrect in your belief of god? Why is it that you, and you alone, have undisputable knowlege? Not me, not the budists, but perhaps only you and your fellow christians.
Why do you think god exists anyway? Do you THINK he exists BECAUSE he DOES exist? Impossible. YOU think god exists FROM your KNOWLEGE. Through your senses you gain this knowlege. Theists seem to think they have this sixth sense for truth, and this happens to be an infallible sense. You only have 5 senses and your reasoning, no more. Any knowlege of god comes through your five senses, and any of which can give false information. But the senses are much much much much more reliable than your reasoning skills. Through your reasoning do you determine, from your knowlege, that god exists. Your reasoning is the most fallible part of you, and thus your knowlege is fallable. God either exist, or he doesn't. But all we have to go on is our knowlege, nothing more. No sixth sense, no blatant visions.
Why are you debating if your mind cannot comprehend a universe without a god?
"You cannot convince me to accept the non-existence of God as a possibility. There my mind is closed - and I don't have a problem with it."
This is the essence of ignorance. I've heard many a christian preach "open your mind [to god of course]", yet you seem quite closed to the very issue at hand.
If you cannot accept the possibility of your error, there is nothing to debate with you.
"I can't do that due to the truth of God's existence - this is where you struggle to understand faith in truth. Be careful, however, there is a an almost invisible line between open-mindedness and insanity."
Very profound, yet it means almost nothing. Open-mindedness does not mean acceptance... Who can be insane if they are open to the idea that their little insane world might possibily be an illusion?
What, exactly, makes you believe that there is no possibility that you are wrong? The height of arrogance is thus, when one cannot admit to possibility.
"I do not say that I cannot accept the possibility that I am wrong. I state I cannot accept the possibility of God's non-existence."
So you CAN accept the possibility that you are wrong? If that is the case, then you MUST accept the possibility that your knowlege of god's existance is also wrong.
"You seem to think that God's existence depends on what I believe"
Course it doesn't. But you seem to think that it IS POSSIBLE for you to know something without the possibility of error (namely the existance of god).
Can you please state to me why you think that you cannot be incorrect in your belief of god? Why is it that you, and you alone, have undisputable knowlege? Not me, not the budists, but perhaps only you and your fellow christians.
Why do you think god exists anyway? Do you THINK he exists BECAUSE he DOES exist? Impossible. YOU think god exists FROM your KNOWLEGE. Through your senses you gain this knowlege. Theists seem to think they have this sixth sense for truth, and this happens to be an infallible sense. You only have 5 senses and your reasoning, no more. Any knowlege of god comes through your five senses, and any of which can give false information. But the senses are much much much much more reliable than your reasoning skills. Through your reasoning do you determine, from your knowlege, that god exists. Your reasoning is the most fallible part of you, and thus your knowlege is fallable. God either exist, or he doesn't. But all we have to go on is our knowlege, nothing more. No sixth sense, no blatant visions.
Why are you debating if your mind cannot comprehend a universe without a god?
"It would be pointless for God to tell us that there are others like us out there. I believe that if there are, then He will tell us later, after the second coming..."
What is the point of telling us at all? Why doesn't he let us see for ourselves...
What is the point of telling us at all? Why doesn't he let us see for ourselves...
Mohamed,
If the universe is simply the interactions of the laws of nature then that explains everything.
This is a significantly simpler and believable explanation than yours – that a magical super powered immaterial invisible being did everything, for which of course there is zero evidence. At least we can see how the laws of nature do create stars and planets and almost certainly life.
Now you might argue that everything must have a cause, but if that is true then you must explain who created Allah, and then of course what created the creator of the creator, etc.
Why must there be a creator? If the universe is infinite, (i.e. has no beginning or end) then no creator is required.
If the universe is simply the interactions of the laws of nature then that explains everything.
This is a significantly simpler and believable explanation than yours – that a magical super powered immaterial invisible being did everything, for which of course there is zero evidence. At least we can see how the laws of nature do create stars and planets and almost certainly life.
Now you might argue that everything must have a cause, but if that is true then you must explain who created Allah, and then of course what created the creator of the creator, etc.
but in line of that kind of reasoning...god must have come from somewhere too then.
There was nothing...there was god...there was the universe
versus
there was nothing....there was the universe
who made god then...
God was never created God has always been God, all matter has had a beginning, there was a time when matter did not exist, God created matter, along with the laws which all created matter must operate within, these laws do not take on a physical form, but they are concepts which can be tested and be seen to be operating even though you can not reach out and touch them.
All of the people who don't believe in God will find out when they die. If you end up in Hell, then you would wish that you have believed, but if you don't end up anywhere, then your theory is right, until then, this controversy will continue now and in the future.
Because I see something you don't seem to see makes me a universal authority? First, I assume nothing. I stated fact. God Is. Fact. No doubt. No need to debate. I would not call that arrogant. I call it confident.
What good is done by denying God? What is the goal of such thought? Is it the thought of all those who have no belief that this world is here by accident? That it continually replenishes food by accident? That earth hasn't fallen into the sun by accident? That we are here by accident? All is an accident? You would rather believe that we exist by accident than believe in a Creator Who continually creates. Who regulates the affair. Who provides for all. Can you not see the mercy that our Creator bestows on us daily?
I will give no scientific argument as to the existence of God. I have no need of science to tell me that God is.
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First... if you're mind is made up there is no point in debating this, so you are wasting your time.
The point is not to deny god, not to accept god, but to accept the reality that you are not privy to the answer to the question "is there a god?" so to speak.
The saddest part of this connudrum you've created by debating that which you are not willing to debate, is that it is proof positive that at this point in time you are not a reasonable being. Ya think?
Because the point of the bible was to teach man how to live in peace. Why would man need to know about life on other planets in order to live in peace on this one?
So nature created everything? How does that explain everything?
I'm sorry. I most have missed that class. When have we seen nature creating stars and planets? When have we seen nature create life? Is it easier for you mind to understand these thoughts? It is ASSUMED THAT NATURE CREATES - No proof.
Is that your argument? Man must have a logical explanation before he believes. Because your mind cannot grasp the thought that God is He who always was and will always be, you most give Him human qualities. Please look at the laws of the universe. Look at them. Understand them. Understand yourself and how you were made. That is proof.