Irrelevant to this conversation. We are arguing whether thought would affect desire. Specifically, I was refuting your position that thought serves desire by pointing out that thought can change desire.
First let us understand what desire is;
Desire, v. t.] 1. The natural longing that is excited by the enjoyment or the thought of any good, and impels to action or effort its continuance or possession; an eager wish to obtain or enjoy.
Excessive or morbid longing; lust; appetite.
To long for; to wish for earnestly; to covet.
I don’t personally think thought can change anything, without being backed up by action. When we get to the stage of desiring something or someone, it goes beyond thought, desire is not logical. Most of the time, if we desire something, our thoughts usually find a way of justifying it.
If someone overcomes their desire in the way that you mentioned, that person is considered a strong individual, and even then, they have to find ways of keeping themselves straight, else they could easily return to their habit.
"What tools do we have to take measure of these things?" to which your replied, "Intelligence."
The result usually acts as a way of measurement. i.e. “I haven’t had a cigarette for 20 years now.”
I then stated, "Intelligence is a quality or capacity. It is not a method." The reply you've just given does not fit to the conversation.
When someone becomes addicted to crack cocaine lets say, unless they have no idea of its effects, the act is not one of intelligence, I’m sure you would agree. If you have ever talked to a crack-head, they will tell you its not a good thing they are doing, this indicates that they are thinking about their actions, but cannot back them up. Why? Because the desire to be high is stronger than anything else.
The people who do manage to beat the habit, do so through strong will power, the power to overcome their urges and desires. They first have to admit to themselves that they have a problem, and the only way to be rid of it, is to stop it, period. They then seek out people who are qualified to help them, they surrender themselves to such authorities by doing exactly what they say, regardless of their own ideas and concepts, in other words they put their faith in the relevant authorities.
This is intelligence, it is survival.
I know a lot about the concept of God according to several religions.
What is the concept of God?
What I know about the supposed reality of God is that there seems to be nothing to know...
Because you are looking outwardly. You can know about the concept of love, but unless you love you will never really know what it is, because it is a “personal experience.”
To develop knowledge of God, we need knowledge of ourselves, from that position it becomes clearer.
that is there is nothing that can be verified as true and many notions that can be invalidated.
I once asked you if there is somebody you loved, and you replied, yes. I then asked you to prove your claim to me, and you couldn’t, did you re-evaluate the love you thought you had, or do you still love that someone? If so can you prove it to me yet?
This is what I mean about self-understanding, self-realisation, the answers to your questions lie within your heart, but first you must be honest with yourself.
s leads me to believe that God, particularly as a conscious being that created the Universe and is involved with our lives, is not a believable notion.
I can understand that, but it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist. You will never find God by trying to see Him with your eyes, because your eyes are imperfect. The best way to perceive God, is by hearing, hearing is much more effective, if someone is in a deep state of sleep, he can be woken if you call him, sound affects the mind and body much more than form.
I worked quite hard to act in accordance with the doctrines I followed. Most of my behavior, even now, is in accordance with those doctrines.
When we work, generally it means we want something in return for our labour, the doctrines i.e. the ten commandments, is not meant to be hard labour.
I simply have developed a logical rational for them rather than basing them on faith. My behavior is more true to the teachings of Jesus than most of the Christians I meet.
Maybe so, but that may be due to their understanding of Christ, as I said, because you say you believe in God, doesn’t mean you do. It is how we act that determines whether we are theist or atheist, not what we think. In fact thinking on its own determines nought.
Yes, thought can be influenced by emotion, particularly strong emotion. I work hard to make sure that influence is within reason.
Work, work, work, you should chill out.
I fully agree with this. However, I do not believe that you have demonstrated that "Life comes from spirit."
Good, good, we agree on something at least, so we will take it from there, forget, for the moment about life coming from spirit. Our next question must be what is “life.”
I do not believe that I have posted anything foolish on this board except when I was deliberately making a joke.
I don’t want to go into the Pascals wager thing, but by your own admision you are not sure as to whether a God exists.
Now if God exists, you are blaspheming, right?
When you blaspheme, you sin, when you sin, you become responsible for your own actions, you create re-actions, in the bible it says; as a man sow so shall he reap. When seeds are sown, there is a reaction. The seeds talked about in the Bible are not agriculteral seeds, they are seeds of action, when you perform an action, there has to be a reaction, you have to deal with the reaction, this is what is meant by “karma” I’m sure you are aware. When we blaspheme, it is one of the worst sins, for the reactions of such actions are truly magnaminous.
Why I said you were foolish, was because you have no idea as to the scale of your offense, if you don’t believe God exists, then whose face are you going to tell it to, and if He exists then you have blasphemed and unless you can somehow come to your senses, you have to face up to your offense.
then by all means, enlighten me.
There you go again, always looking for the external way out.
Theists keep telling me things similar to this and I keep asking for their evidence and reason.
What would you look for?
You stated that thought serves desire (which is emotion), suggest that thought is only about emotion, and seem to suggest that thought cannot change desire (emotion). You have strayed from that portion of our discussion but from what you have said that is the conclusion I have drawn. If not then please explain.
I will reply to this soon.
Love
Jan Ardena.
