God does exist.
- Thread starter Daiel Hegarty
- Start date
Originally posted by Raithere
People do it all the time, overcoming and modifying their desire to eat excessively, smoke, take drugs, behave violently, etc.
Some people do, but addiction is a seriously growing problem.
Intelligence is a quality or capacity. It is not a method.
The people that overcome addiction use their intelligence.
I am not out to prove my beliefs are true, I am out to determine what they should be and why.
Then why act like you know about God, when you don't.
This quality allowed me to examine my own theistic presuppositions and uncover the errors within them.
In truth "theism" means jack, anybody can say "i believe in God" but only a few act like they believe.
"I am a top-flight scientist you know."
So you suggest first that I accept God and then I will understand the evidence for God?
Stop being such a blockhead, or read what i said carefully.
There's a little hole in your theory... for most of my life I did believe in God and did try to see this "evidence".
Did your actions verify what you thought you believed?
No, my thoughts express how I think.
Like what you "drunk" expresses how you "drink?"
etimes, they regard my feelings but most of the time my thoughts do not focus upon how I feel.
When you are consciously thinking, yes, but if you feel angry, your thoughts will take on your anger.
that process does not begin from nothing. Life is a chain unbroken.
You are learning...."Life comes from life."
ike you, I do not discard an entire realm of human thought out of hand but search to find what is true and useful.
You know me do you?
wouldn't you believe my sincerity?
Your sincerity was no problem, it was you foolishness that made me sad.
if I am wrong and God exists as an entity I will stand by my behavior and belief in life as being as truthful and good as I can make it.
You have a poor fund of knowledge, until you can realise this, you will never understand Who and What God is.
You just don't understand reason. According to your own assertions you are driven entirely by emotions which are not even tempered by reason.
1) Please give an example within our discussion.
2) Driven entirely by emotions eh?
Love
Jan Ardena.
Irrelevant to this conversation. We are arguing whether thought would affect desire. Specifically, I was refuting your position that thought serves desire by pointing out that thought can change desire.
Now you're crossing issues. I asked, "What tools do we have to take measure of these things?" to which your replied, "Intelligence." I then stated, "Intelligence is a quality or capacity. It is not a method." The reply you've just given does not fit to the conversation.
I know a lot about the concept of God according to several religions. What I know about the supposed reality of God is that there seems to be nothing to know... that is there is nothing that can be verified as true and many notions that can be invalidated. This leads me to believe that God, particularly as a conscious being that created the Universe and is involved with our lives, is not a believable notion.
I worked quite hard to act in accordance with the doctrines I followed. Most of my behavior, even now, is in accordance with those doctrines. I simply have developed a logical rational for them rather than basing them on faith. My behavior is more true to the teachings of Jesus than most of the Christians I meet.
Then what do you suggest? My quest is to discern the truth. I believe that my methods are the best mankind has for verifying truth. If these methods do not reveal God, what then?
Yes. They verified what I believed... they still do.
Yes, thought can be influenced by emotion, particularly strong emotion. I work hard to make sure that influence is within reason.
I fully agree with this. However, I do not believe that you have demonstrated that "Life comes from spirit."
Beg pardon.
I do not believe that I have posted anything foolish on this board except when I was deliberately making a joke.
Then by all means, enlighten me. Theists keep telling me things similar to this and I keep asking for their evidence and reason. No one yet has provided anything to convince me. I'm still waiting.
You stated that thought serves desire (which is emotion), suggest that thought is only about emotion, and seem to suggest that thought cannot change desire (emotion). You have strayed from that portion of our discussion but from what you have said that is the conclusion I have drawn. If not then please explain.
~Raithere
Jan
We are made in His image, we can think and reason, so He can.
Look where our thinking and reasoning have led us - to science. The more we think and reason, the more we find out about our nature in the universe and all it encompasses. We have thought and reasoned out the concept of the supernatural. Our reasoning has led us to understand that gods don't need to exist and are unnecessary for describing how our universe works.
Therefore, we are not made in His image. Perhaps that mold was broken long ago.
Omnipotent is what He is, so we have to use that description.
We have already established that God cannot be omniscient because he cannot know exactly what will happen now or in the future but instead He would know what is most likely to happen (Truthseeker's post above.) As I stated, this would allow Him some leeway in regards to allowing us some free will. But it certainly precludes the notion that He is all knowing.
Therefore, in order to escalate this further, we would need to establish whether or not the concept of non-omniscient can preclude the concept of omnipotence. If He is not all knowing, can He be all powerful ?
I also stated He was Absolute.
That's not possible. If He can only know what is most likely to happen, then He cannot be absolute - He can neither be complete nor perfect.
We are made in His image, we can think and reason, so He can.
Look where our thinking and reasoning have led us - to science. The more we think and reason, the more we find out about our nature in the universe and all it encompasses. We have thought and reasoned out the concept of the supernatural. Our reasoning has led us to understand that gods don't need to exist and are unnecessary for describing how our universe works.
Therefore, we are not made in His image. Perhaps that mold was broken long ago.
Omnipotent is what He is, so we have to use that description.
We have already established that God cannot be omniscient because he cannot know exactly what will happen now or in the future but instead He would know what is most likely to happen (Truthseeker's post above.) As I stated, this would allow Him some leeway in regards to allowing us some free will. But it certainly precludes the notion that He is all knowing.
Therefore, in order to escalate this further, we would need to establish whether or not the concept of non-omniscient can preclude the concept of omnipotence. If He is not all knowing, can He be all powerful ?
I also stated He was Absolute.
That's not possible. If He can only know what is most likely to happen, then He cannot be absolute - He can neither be complete nor perfect.
whatsupyall,
I believe you misunderstood me (what is certainly not uncommon to happen...). Answer me if I'm wrong... I believe you read me through this quote:
Here, I didn't mean I doubt the Bible is saying the Truth about that. I know God is omniscient however I can't fully understand how this happen. I believe that He is omniscient because the Bible said so, but I also know myself that I cannot fully understand it yet. That's what I meant.
My arguments are not weak, they are just gentle. There is no weakness in gentleness. I don't impose anything to anyone, which means that I use gentle talking, as Jesus used, and talking with Lovingkindness and gentleness is much more powerfull than boast words. Jesus allways talked in this way and I do my best to do the same.
My faith is not weak. I live in the favor of God. If my faith was weak, I would be at home in Brazil, and not here, in Canada, pursuing God's plans for me. He told me to live my family and come here and I can. Now I'm on my way to get what God has for me.
I believe you misunderstood me (what is certainly not uncommon to happen...
). Answer me if I'm wrong... I believe you read me through this quote: Here, I didn't mean I doubt the Bible is saying the Truth about that. I know God is omniscient however I can't fully understand how this happen. I believe that He is omniscient because the Bible said so, but I also know myself that I cannot fully understand it yet. That's what I meant.
My arguments are not weak, they are just gentle. There is no weakness in gentleness. I don't impose anything to anyone, which means that I use gentle talking, as Jesus used, and talking with Lovingkindness and gentleness is much more powerfull than boast words. Jesus allways talked in this way and I do my best to do the same.
My faith is not weak. I live in the favor of God. If my faith was weak, I would be at home in Brazil, and not here, in Canada, pursuing God's plans for me. He told me to live my family and come here and I can. Now I'm on my way to get what God has for me.
Originally posted by (Q)
Jan
We have thought and reasoned out the concept of the supernatural. Our reasoning has led us to understand that gods don't need to exist and are unnecessary for describing how our universe works.
Therefore, we are not made in His image. Perhaps that mold was broken long ago.
O YEAH, YOUR REASONING HAS LED YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT GOD DONT EXIST? WELL GIVE ME ONE EVIDENCE THEN....IM WAITING...
GOD IS UNNECCESSARY FOR DESSCRIBING HOW THE UNIVERSE WORKS?
WELL THEN, CREATE A LIFE FORM, CREATE AN EMOTION WITHOUT USING YOUR EXISTING BRAIN, THEN I WILL BELIEVE YOU, UNTIL THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE...
WE HAVE ESTABLISHED? WHO? GOD IS NOT ALL KNOWING BY WHAT REASON AND PROOF? BECAUSE YOU SAY SO? THEREFORE GOD IS NOT ALL KNOWING BECAUSE Q SAID SO? IF THERES ANYTHING Q YOU HAVENT ANSWERED MY QUESTION, THIS TOPIC IS LONG OVER, DO YOU WANT ME TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AGAIN KID?
AND YOU TRUTHSEEKER, THATS WHY I WARN YOU TO WATCH YOUR MOUTH, LOOK WHAT HAPPENED, NOW HE USED YOUR WORDS AGAINST YOU, WHERE DID THAT EVEN LURKED IN YOUR MIND THAT GOD IS NOT ALL KNOWING, JUST ALMOST ALL KNOWING, BUT NOT ALL KNOWING. TRUTHSEEKER, YOOU WANT TO LOOK FOR TRUTH? THEN HAVE FAITH THAT GOD IS ALL KNOWING, NOT HALF KNOWING. Q AND ANY ATHEIST CANNOT ARGUE AGAINST THAT FACT, AAS U CAN SEE THEY LOST THE DEBATE ALREADY, SO NEXT TIME WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE, AND APOLOGIZE TO THEM AND TELL THEM "GOD IS ALL KNOWING, OMNISCIENT" OK? O MAN OF LITTLE FAITH....I HAVE DEBATED MANY ATHEISTS, FROM SCIENCE TO PHILOSOPHY, EVEN TEACHERS, I ALREADY KNOW WHAT TO SAY, SO TRUTH BECAREFULL OK, LET THIS BE A LESSON TO YOU....GOD IS ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFULL, ALL GOOD, AND I CHALLENGE ANY ATHEIST TO DEBATE WITH ME....
(Q),
Sorry (Q)... you also misunderstood me.
I did not say I don't believe He is omniscient, I said that I'm not able to explain how this is possible, how this works. That's all that I said.
Sorry (Q)... you also misunderstood me.
I did not say I don't believe He is omniscient, I said that I'm not able to explain how this is possible, how this works. That's all that I said.
My apology truth, so you do believe that God is All-knowing, thats good, please DONT DOUBT THAT, STRENGTHEN YOUR FAITH....
whatsupyall, DON'T USE CAPS LOCK! , if you want anybody to read your posts -
what won't happen even if you did
Nelson- don't even try.
He's a stupid religios troll or fanatic and is much worse than you ever have been
People can at least try to discuss with you
, if you want anybody to read your posts - what won't happen even if you did
Nelson- don't even try.
He's a stupid religios troll or fanatic and is much worse than you ever have been
People can at least try to discuss with you
whatsupyall,
Have you read my last post to you?
Besides that, don't judge if I have little faith or not. God knows how big is my faith... My faith is big enough to stand against everyone in this whole city I'm in to stand in God's side, in the Truth's side.
They cannot use my words against me. Satan allways twist my words in people's head, so that they mean something that they do not. But the Truth will come and you will understand what I'm saying.
Have you read my last post to you?
Besides that, don't judge if I have little faith or not. God knows how big is my faith... My faith is big enough to stand against everyone in this whole city I'm in to stand in God's side, in the Truth's side.
They cannot use my words against me. Satan allways twist my words in people's head, so that they mean something that they do not. But the Truth will come and you will understand what I'm saying.
Whatsupall:
I'm not going to respond to your raving posts until you answer my question:
If you KNOW 100% that your nephew will take the controller, CAN he still CHOOSE NOT to take the controller?
I'm not going to respond to your raving posts until you answer my question:
If you KNOW 100% that your nephew will take the controller, CAN he still CHOOSE NOT to take the controller?
my apology, i assume your faith was little when I THOUGHT you said that maybe God is not all knowing, because of that, then I assume your faith was shaky, thats all, but this is cleared up now, my apology....
Avatar,
I believe everyone is worth loving. I believe everyone was once a little inocent kid and I still see everyone as little children. Anyone is not worth loving. Everyone deserves encouragement and support, and I never give up on helping people and loving people as if they were little children.
Peace out.
I believe everyone is worth loving. I believe everyone was once a little inocent kid and I still see everyone as little children. Anyone is not worth loving. Everyone deserves encouragement and support, and I never give up on helping people and loving people as if they were little children.
Peace out.
Frenchy, this is the THIRD TIME I posted this answer, the THIRD TIME, 3rd, three, 3 TIMES....I hope your brain will absorb it, read again....
AGAIN I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE WILL TAKE THE CONTROLLER, AND HE DID...BUT THE FACT IS, MY KNOWLEDGE OF HIS ACT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM HAVING FREEWILL OR NOT, BECAUSE THE FACT IS MY NEPHEW HAVE FREEWILL...THATS A SIMPLE FACT, A FACT, MY NEPHEW ISNT A CYBORG, A FACT. GOT IT? ITS A FACT...
NOW IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE SO THAT IT WILL "SEEM" LIKE HE HAS NO FREEWILL, THEN I CAN LOOK AT IT THIS WAY...I WAS 100% SURE HE WILL TAKE THE CONTROLLER, AND HE DID, SO THEREFORE MY NEPHEW IS JUST FOLLOWING WHAT I KNOW.
YES, IN THIS SENSE, MY NEPHEW IS FOLLOWING WHAT I KNOW, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN "I AM CONTROLLING HIM" AND IT DOESNT MEAN "I AM ESTABLISHING THINGS FOR HIM", I DIDNT, I JUST KNOW THE THINGS HE DO....SIMPLE...ITS A FACT THAT MY NEPHEW HAVE FREEWILL, A FACT...
(LETS SAY I AM GOD) NOW JUST BECAUSE I KNOW THAT "SHAWN" IS GOING TO HELL, IT DOESNT MEAN I WILL STOP TELLING HIM WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, IT DOESNT MEAN I WILL NOT GIVE HIM FOOD TO EAT AND GOOD THINGS, BECAUSE I AM A LOVING FATHER, AND I WILL DO MY PART, EVEN THOUGH SHAWN MADE HIS DECISION TO FOLLOW THE WAYS OF THE DEVIL...THOUGH TO YOU IT MAY SEEM POINTLESS, BUT GOD IS A FATHER AND A LOVING GOD, EVEN THOUGH YOU CHOSE TO GO TO HELL IN THE END...
THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT YOU START OUT WITH A WRONG PREMISE, THEN GOES ON RAMBLING FROM THERE, SO INDEED I MUST ADMIT THE SPIRIT OF LIES IS VERY CLEVER. U CHANGE FROM ONE DEFINITION TO ANOTHER, CHANGING THE WORD "KNOWING" TO THE WORDS "CONTROLLING AND DOING"....THEN PEOPLE ARE DELUDED, SATAN IS THE FATHER OF LIES AND THE MASTER OF DELUSION...YOU ARE ONE OF MILLIONS THAT HAVE BEEN TRICKED TO. YOU ARE TRICKED INTO THINKING "KNOWING" MEANS "CONTROLLING AND ESTABLISHING AND DOING"....
NOTE: I DID ANSWER THIS MANY TIMES, BUT YOU JUST DIDNT GET IT, SO HERE IT IS AGAIN.......NO NAME CALLING HERE, RESPOND ABOUT THIS....
whatsupyall,
That's ok... It happens...
Unfortunatly I'm in big trouble because of Satan distorting my words and creating misunderstandings even in my church! My words are so powerfull there and seems to teach so much and so many people that Satan is trying to make people believe I'm not worth believing!! So he distorts my words!! But the Truth will prevail and everyone will see that all that is true in this universe is Love.
That's ok...
It happens... Unfortunatly I'm in big trouble because of Satan distorting my words and creating misunderstandings even in my church! My words are so powerfull there and seems to teach so much and so many people that Satan is trying to make people believe I'm not worth believing!! So he distorts my words!! But the Truth will prevail and everyone will see that all that is true in this universe is Love.
"Greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world"!!!
Avatar...
Satan is made of pure illusion. He is darkness. Darkness is the mere abscence of light. It's illusion. Darkness doesn't exist as a substance. That's true. That's why Satan has no power over us, that He only exists within our own free will. He can only interfere with us if we let him, by our own free will.
Satan is made of pure illusion. He is darkness. Darkness is the mere abscence of light. It's illusion. Darkness doesn't exist as a substance. That's true. That's why Satan has no power over us, that He only exists within our own free will. He can only interfere with us if we let him, by our own free will.