God does exist.

Jan

Like?

How about a bible quote. Those are used quite frequently here. Or how about using your own logic and reasoning and explaining in your own words why one should believe that God is able to think and reason.

Pay attention, i indicating more than that.

Stating He is omnipotent covers a great many things. I would rather you narrow it down somewhat and not use blanket statements.
 
Originally posted by (Q)
Damn straight. The best way theists can counter this is "Human's cannot think on the level of God."

I challenge any theist to provide something which would indicate that God is able to think and reason. If he is all knowing, that would preclude the need for Him to think and/or reason. If He is able to think and reason, would he not simply vanish by using his own logic ?
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Just because I know ahead that LostQ is going to hell in the future, IT DOESNT MEAN I WILL CUT OFF MY PART AND NOT ATTEMPT TO SAVE HIM, by telling him what to do otherwise as a father or a friend, I have not done my part and I cannot claim to be a good friend at all in that case.(I can only teach him the WORD but I cannot take away His freewill for he will make decision for himself)and since he is going to hell because he listens to the influence of the devil more, then thats not my fault for I have done my part, he still made his decision, and I have done so much for him already. KNOWING THINGS DOESNT MEAN YOU WILL BE LIKE A CYBORG AND A COMPUTER WHERE IT HAS NO DECISION and WAY OF JUDGMENT, THATS HOW GOD KNOWS ALL THINGS, BY HIS JUDGMENT AND WAY OF THINKING, LIKE YOU AND ME AS WE ARE CREATED IN HIS IMAGE, WE KNOW AND SOLVE THINGS BY OUR THOUGHTS....OR LIKE A COMPUTER MEMORY IS NOTHING WITHOUT THE PROCESSOR...

LOL, Q and the lost atheists are trying so hard...I give them credit for courage .........nah, lol, I give them no credit for being an idiot and not know what the heck are they talking about.
 
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hehe

Don't you just love it when people with limited vocabularies and a tenuous grasp of syntax try to write like they're real smart ?
 
"YOUR AN IDIOT BECAUSE MY NEPHEW HAVE FREEWILL...A FACT.. "

First of all, it is not a fact that your nephew, or any of us, has freewill. EVEN IF it was a fact, however, the FACT is that you did NOT know for a fact that he would take your controller. You ASSUMED he would, and then he did. This does not mean you KNEW FOR A FACT, it means you experienced a coincidence.

You avoided my qusetion yet again. You called me a lier and an idiot when I suggested that you avoided my questions before, and now you avoided it again. THIS WAS THE QUESTION:

"If you knew this for 100% sure, can your nephew still not take the controller?"

Call me a lier, psh.
 
Jan Ardena:

-----Can any Theists agree that whatsupall is going *just a bit* overboard here? ------

"No, not compared to GB gills whatever."

Who? What? Thats irrelevant even if he does exist. I'm talking compared to, say, me and you.

"HE TYPES LIKE THIS AND YOU REGARD IT AS RANTING AND RAVING, THAT IS ONLY AN OPINION. "

Nope, if you read over his stuff, you will find he insults atheists MANY MANY TIMES, and he has insulted non-christians a couple times too. I may insult someone here and there, but usually only after they have done likewise. And I definately don't do it as much as muscleman/whatsupall...

"Is that your inferance or did he say that?"

He has said something on those lines, yes. I believe it might have been "if you don't agree with me, you are stupid."
 
dont get personal because you have nothing intelligent to say, dont change topic and talk about my life, who cares if I call yoou "stupid!!!!!!!", You are not my judge and besides there is a reason why I called you names, if you make mistakes and you dont know it, then Ill correct you, but if you already know, then God will be the judge of your act...And I know my faults, so no need for you to tell me, now stick to the subject and dont get personal STUPID...
 
(Q),

I challenge any theist to provide something which would indicate that God is able to think and reason. If he is all knowing, that would preclude the need for Him to think and/or reason. If He is able to think and reason, would he not simply vanish by using his own logic ?
Click to expand...

If God is the Truth as the Bible says, does He really need to judge? Does He really need to think and to reason? Is there any wisdom in judging? For the judgement comes when doubt abides...

It's written:

Genesis 2:16-17

"16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Why do you die when you eat from that tree? Why the man was separated from God when they ate from that tree? Because of their judgment. They started to judge what is true and what is not. Their minds split in two and said: "This is possible, but this other is also". So when they ate from the tree they lost their God-likeness, they lost the Truth.

Genesis 3:1-7

"1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"
4 The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
5 "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings. "

God knows what is "good" and "evil". However, that doesn't say that He uses this knowledge. If He knows what is the Truth, then, why would He judge? So, He doesn't! He has no doubt. But Adam and Eve had doubts because they weren't all-knowing. They didn't know the Truth. When they ate from that tree, their eyes closed to God and the separation began. However, if they eat from the tree of life (which is the Truth) then they will have eternal life again. Death came because they become separated from God, they lost contact with life. From this time on, man would live less and less as they were more and more separated from God... until Jesus came... :)
 
whatsupyall,

dont get personal because you have nothing intelligent to say, dont change topic and talk about my life, who cares if I call yoou "stupid!!!!!!!", You are not my judge and besides there is a reason why I called you names, if you make mistakes and you dont know it, then Ill correct you, but if you already know, then God will be the judge of your act...And I know my faults, so no need for you to tell me, now stick to the subject and dont get personal STUPID...
Click to expand...

You are not my judge
Click to expand...

And neither you are his judge...

there is a reason why I called you names, if you make mistakes and you dont know it, then Ill correct you,
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Judgement and unkind words only create judgement and unkind words.

Matthew 7:1-2
"1 Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Luke 6:37
"37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. "

Proverbs 10:19
"19 When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise. "

Proverbs 12:6
"6 The words of the wicked lie in wait for blood, But the mouth of the upright will deliver them. "

Proverbs 12:14
"14 A man will be satisfied with good by the fruit of his words, And the deeds of a man's hands will return to him."

Proverbs 12:25
"25 Anxiety in a man's heart weighs it down, But a good word makes it glad. "
 
a letter to Truthseeker,


"Forgive and you will be forgiven"

"For the same measure you give, it shall be measured back unto you".
"Judge not lest ye likely be judged"..


You are right Truth, and I thank you for the consolation..But you have a misconception here.
Judgment which derived from the word "Justice" is different from the word "Correction" or "Addressing", (as in this case "Name calling")...

For instance, if I called someone names such as "STUPID STUPID IDIOTIC ATHEISTS!!" because they think the complexity and order of nature happens by "super duper luck", thats name calling, and thats not judgment.

If I call someone and say "Hey there sexy, where are you from? You looking foxy tonight", thats not judgment, thats name calling.
Or if I addressed someone like the apostles always did; if you stole cash and you didnt know it was a sin, then I wwill correct you and say "YOUR WRONG, YOU SHOULD NOT STEAL AND THE REASON IS, ETC. ETC." thats not judgment but correction, AND WHEN YOU CORRECT AND ADDRESS SOMEONE, YOU SHOULD DO IT IN A GENTLE MANNER (IF THEY DONT KNOW) AND GIVE THEM REASONS WHY ITS WRONG, IF THEY DONT BELIEVE YOU, THEN BRING ONE WITNESS (one apostles or teachers words as an evidence), if they still dont believe you, then bring another witness (maybe this time bring him to a pastor or priest), and if he sttill dont believe you, then being him to the whole community, teachers, scholars, the pope, bishops, etc. AND IF HE STILL REJECT YOU, THEN TREAT HIM AS A PAGAN (this is in the bible), BUT THAT IS NOT JUDGMENT.


Even Jesus and the apostles were name calling some hipocrites, BUT THEY WERE GENTLE TO THOSE WHO ARE INNOCENT AND WILLING TO LEARN, as Jesus was gentle to the apostles, but rude to the Pharisees, TO THOSE WHO ALREADY KNOW WHATS RIGHT FROM WRONG AND DO WRONG ANYWAYS BECAUSE IT FEELS GOOD..Jesus was calling the Pharisees names, he said "You brood of vipers! You hipocrites!!", Jesus is the perfect example of how christians are to live. Because of that, they hated him and wanted him dead.


So what then is judgment? "There is only one judge who can build and destroy"- James...
Judgment is if you never gave the man and punished him for his wrong..In the court of law, the judges there are an example of judging.
If you PUNISH SOMEONE BECAUSE OF THEIR FAULT, then you are judging them. If you put someone inprison because of their fault, then thats judging..

Jesus agrees with separation of church and goovernment. "Give to Ceasars whats ceasars, and God's whats God's". If you commit a crime in this gov't, then you will pay the price for this gov't. If you commit a crime in this world, then the world will judge you, even to death, and God cannot interfere for you have freewil and makes your own decision..."For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal".

Now its either you pick the world or God" "Whoever is the friend of the world is the enemy of God"..
You cant be warm or lukewarm, either you love God, or you love the world. If you love God then you must pray, and proclaim the good news as what you are doing right now, now if world tells you this is illegal and u cant pray otherwise you will be put to death (communism), then now you have to choose betwen God and the world, if you renounced your faith because you dont want to be punished by the world, then you indeed saved your earthly life...But when you die, God will punish you.
If you openly prayed anyways and broke the law of the world, they may put your flesh to death as your punishment, but God will reward you in Heaven...
Thats judgment, the world does judge, and so does God.....

You just have to understand Truth, that to hate is not a sin, it just depends what you hate and what you love. Hating the things of the world and hating sin is not wrong.
Even love can be a sin, to love sex, love being impatient, love the things of the world, cars, etc. is idolatry. But theres also a love for God which is patient, kind, etc.
Jealousy is also a good way to live. You can be jealous of the virtues of saints, dont you wish you are as good as the apostles, I know I do. But jealousy of the things of the world is a sin, because it shows what you treasure in your heart.

If there is 7 deadly sins, there is also the 7 beatitudes that God is asking of us. If there is formation of conscience in God, there is also formnation of conscience in the world. People in the world feels guilty not killing the guy who raped his daughter, people in Christ feels guilty killing the guy who raped his daughter, thats their consciences from 2 different world, LIGHT AND DARKNESS, GOOD AND EVIL. Opposite. While God influences us to do good, the devil in the other hand influences us to do bad, and WE MAKE THE DECISION.

note; I called Frenchy, and other guys here names because they deserve it, they are so stubborn and stupid just like the Pharisees. Even though it was so obvious that they lost the argument, THEY INSIST AND LIE, FALSELY ACCUSE ME, PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH, MAKING THEIR OWN DEFINITION OF THINGS, TALKING SMACK AGAINST GOD, GENERALIZING, etc. I will not admit the anger I shown is wrong, because it is not, for it shows my passion for God and my hatred for lies, ignorance and sin, I HATE THE SIN, BUT NOT THE SINNER...Forgive me if I went overboard and offend you guys BUT THE TRUTH HURTS....
God may have said "I will repent for the the anger I have shown" NOT THAT GOD MADE A MISTAKE, BUT THAT HE APOLOGIZES IF YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH AND THAT MORAL VALUES IS HARD FOR YOU TO FOLLOW, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM COMMITING A MISTAKE, IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOU NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE RESPONSIBILITY.

TRUTH, I DO REPENT AND ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THAT THE TRUTH HURTS AND THAT IT HAS TO COME FROM ME. NOT THAT I MADE A MISTAKE, BUT BECAUSE THEIR BRAINWASHED BODY CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH....
 
whatsupyall,

Judgment which derived from the word "Justice" is different from the word "Correction" or "Addressing", (as in this case "Name calling")...
Click to expand...

You don't need to insult people in order to correct them....
and I recall...

1 Corinthians 13:4-6

"4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; "

For instance, if I called someone names such as "STUPID STUPID IDIOTIC ATHEISTS!!" because they think the complexity and order of nature happens by "super duper luck", thats name calling, and thats not judgment.
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And what came before the name calling? When you say someone is an atheist, aren't you judging this person?

1 Corinthians 3:19-20

"19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS";
20 and again, "THE LORD KNOWS THE REASONINGS of the wise, THAT THEY ARE USELESS." "

Yes... that's right... but...


Matthew 25:31-46

"31 But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

...and...

Matthew 5:44
"44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, "

Luke 6:27
"27 But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, "

Luke 6:35
"35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men."

Are you really loving them? Are your words kind? Do you call "stupid" someone that you Love?

Or if I addressed someone like the apostles always did; if you stole cash and you didnt know it was a sin, then I wwill correct you and say "YOUR WRONG, YOU SHOULD NOT STEAL AND THE REASON IS, ETC. ETC." thats not judgment but correction, AND WHEN YOU CORRECT AND ADDRESS SOMEONE, YOU SHOULD DO IT IN A GENTLE MANNER (IF THEY DONT KNOW) AND GIVE THEM REASONS WHY ITS WRONG, IF THEY DONT BELIEVE YOU, THEN BRING ONE WITNESS (one apostles or teachers words as an evidence), if they still dont believe you, then bring another witness (maybe this time bring him to a pastor or priest), and if he sttill dont believe you, then being him to the whole community, teachers, scholars, the pope, bishops, etc. AND IF HE STILL REJECT YOU, THEN TREAT HIM AS A PAGAN (this is in the bible), BUT THAT IS NOT JUDGMENT.
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Where in the Bible is that written...?

Even Jesus and the apostles were name calling some hipocrites, BUT THEY WERE GENTLE TO THOSE WHO ARE INNOCENT AND WILLING TO LEARN, as Jesus was gentle to the apostles, but rude to the Pharisees, TO THOSE WHO ALREADY KNOW WHATS RIGHT FROM WRONG AND DO WRONG ANYWAYS BECAUSE IT FEELS GOOD..Jesus was calling the Pharisees names, he said "You brood of vipers! You hipocrites!!", Jesus is the perfect example of how christians are to live. Because of that, they hated him and wanted him dead.
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Is "hipocrite" an insult? Is "brood of vipers" an insult or an analogy as "childrens of darkness" is? Is that really name callying?

So what then is judgment? "There is only one judge who can build and destroy"- James...
Judgment is if you never gave the man and punished him for his wrong..In the court of law, the judges there are an example of judging.
If you PUNISH SOMEONE BECAUSE OF THEIR FAULT, then you are judging them. If you put someone inprison because of their fault, then thats judging..
Click to expand...

Judgement is also to discern between good and evil...

Thats judgment, the world does judge, and so does God.....
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God doesn't judge. He is Love and He is Truth. There is no judgment on Love neither on Truth. If God is all-knowing, if He knows the Truth already, if He has no doubt about it, then He doesn't need to judge. We judge because we don't know the Truth. We may be conscient about what is good and evil but we still need to discern wheter something is good or evil, while God already knows it without judging it at all. And since God is the Truth and Love, so does Love not judge.
Judment is the fruit of ignorance. If you doubt, you judge.

You just have to understand Truth, that to hate is not a sin, it just depends what you hate and what you love. Hating the things of the world and hating sin is not wrong.
Click to expand...

Doesn't need to hate, you just need not to Love them at all, not want them. If you hate them, then this will create a anxienty against those things, that's why we should never hate, it makes us anxious and gives us a big burden to carry...

Even love can be a sin, to love sex, love being impatient, love the things of the world, cars, etc. is idolatry. But theres also a love for God which is patient, kind, etc.
Click to expand...

The word "love" is unfortunatly used in pretty bad ways... The only True Love is the Love of God.

Jealousy is also a good way to live. You can be jealous of the virtues of saints, dont you wish you are as good as the apostles, I know I do. But jealousy of the things of the world is a sin, because it shows what you treasure in your heart.
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Not exactly...

1 Corinthians 13:4-6

"4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; "

What you treasure in your heart is not shown by jealousy, but by your words.

Luke 6:45
"45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart. "

Matthew 12:34
"34 You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. "

Matthew 15:18
"18 But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. "

note; I called Frenchy, and other guys here names because they deserve it, they are so stubborn and stupid just like the Pharisees. Even though it was so obvious that they lost the argument, THEY INSIST AND LIE, FALSELY ACCUSE ME, PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH, MAKING THEIR OWN DEFINITION OF THINGS, TALKING SMACK AGAINST GOD, GENERALIZING, etc.
Click to expand...

Luke 6:35
"35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men."

Matthew 5:44
"44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, "

I will not admit the anger I shown is wrong, because it is not, for it shows my passion for God and my hatred for lies, ignorance and sin, I HATE THE SIN, BUT NOT THE SINNER...Forgive me if I went overboard and offend you guys BUT THE TRUTH HURTS....
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What shows your passion for God is the way you treat others. Read Matthew 25 again and see where you are making the mistake here. Besides that the Truth doesn't hurt. The Truth will set them free.

God may have said "I will repent for the the anger I have shown" NOT THAT GOD MADE A MISTAKE, BUT THAT HE APOLOGIZES IF YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH AND THAT MORAL VALUES IS HARD FOR YOU TO FOLLOW, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM COMMITING A MISTAKE, IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOU NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE RESPONSIBILITY.
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Please quote...

TRUTH, I DO REPENT AND ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THAT THE TRUTH HURTS AND THAT IT HAS TO COME FROM ME. NOT THAT I MADE A MISTAKE, BUT BECAUSE THEIR BRAINWASHED BODY CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH....
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The Truth comes from God, not from you...
 
Truthseeker

God knows what is "good" and "evil". However, that doesn't say that He uses this knowledge. If He knows what is the Truth, then, why would He judge?

Therefore, the religious concept of an all-knowing God precludes the need for Him to possess and use rational thinking. He need not judge who is good or who is evil, he already knows.

Lets move on...

Now that we've determined God is all-knowing and is not required to think rationally, does this all-knowing concept extend into the future or does it simply remain in the present, in other words, does God know everything only in the now, or does he know what will happen as well ?

btw - I think you should take a firm stance with whatsupyall and show him your love. ;)
 
(Q),

Now that we've determined God is all-knowing and is not required to think rationally, does this all-knowing concept extend into the future or does it simply remain in the present, in other words, does God know everything only in the now, or does he know what will happen as well ?
Click to expand...

Well... I believe He knows what will happen but maybe He just know what is most likely to happen. To be honest with you, I'm not sure about this answer. I don't understand the Bible 100%... I think anyone does. I think it's impossible (or almost impossible) to understand anything with 100% of assurance because we all have different perspectives. Though we look at the same mountain, one side is dark and the other is bright. That's why judgement fails so much. However, "Love never fails" for Love is the Truth and there's no judgment in the Truth.

btw - I think you should take a firm stance with whatsupyall and show him your love.
Click to expand...

I already do... :)
 
Truthseeker

Well... I believe He knows what will happen but maybe He just know what is most likely to happen. To be honest with you, I'm not sure about this answer.

That would allow Him a little wiggle room in regards to free will but it would also negate the possibility of Him being omniscient, as others here purport.
 
The Babel fish

"The Babel fish," said The Hichhicker's Guide to the Galaxy quietly, "is small, yellow and leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy recieved not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frquencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centers of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all of this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have choosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistance of God.

"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
" 'But', says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.' "Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promply vanishes in a puff of logic.
" 'Oh that was easy,' says Man, and goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing. "Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book, Well That about Wraps It Up for God. "Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."

Source:
The Hitchhiker's Giude to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams
 
Whatsupall:

I believe Truthseeker can explain why you need to be a bit more rational and a bit less insulting in your "arguments". I find that many of "us atheists" adhere to religious commandments much better than you do. I won't judge myself, but no theist I have seen has posted so many insults and flaunting arogant behavior as you. I will forgive, and have forgiven, you for this, but I expect you to at least take on a character of smartass remarks rather than blatent insulting.

"dont get personal because you have nothing intelligent to say"

When did I get personal? Your reason is quite unjustified.

I verily doubt that you read my entire post, because you failed to complain when I called YOU a lier. You, once again, passed RIGHT OVER my question. Once again you ignore an important point.

Could you please answer this question:

"If you knew this for 100% sure, can your nephew still NOT take the controller?"
 
Could you please answer this question:

"If you knew this for 100% sure, can your nephew still NOT take the controller?"

AGAIN I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE WILL TAKE THE CONTROLLER, AND HE DID...BUT THE FACT IS, MY KNOWLEDGE OF HIS ACT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM HAVING FREEWILL OR NOT, BECAUSE THE FACT IS MY NEPHEW HAVE FREEWILL...THATS A SIMPLE FACT, A FACT, MY NEPHEW ISNT A CYBORG, A FACT. GOT IT? ITS A FACT...
NOW IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE SO THAT IT WILL "SEEM" LIKE HE HAS NO FREEWILL, THEN I CAN LOOK AT IT THIS WAY...I WAS 100% SURE HE WILL TAKE THE CONTROLLER, AND HE DID, SO THEREFORE MY NEPHEW IS JUST FOLLOWING WHAT I KNOW.
YES, IN THIS SENSE, MY NEPHEW IS FOLLOWING WHAT I KNOW, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN "I AM CONTROLLING HIM" AND IT DOESNT MEAN "I AM ESTABLISHING THINGS FOR HIM", I DIDNT, I JUST KNOW THE THINGS HE DO....SIMPLE...ITS A FACT THAT MY NEPHEW HAVE FREEWILL, A FACT...
(LETS SAY I AM GOD) NOW JUST BECAUSE I KNOW THAT "SHAWN" IS GOING TO HELL, IT DOESNT MEAN I WILL STOP TELLING HIM WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, IT DOESNT MEAN I WILL NOT GIVE HIM FOOD TO EAT AND GOOD THINGS, BECAUSE I AM A LOVING FATHER, AND I WILL DO MY PART, EVEN THOUGH SHAWN MADE HIS DECISION TO FOLLOW THE WAYS OF THE DEVIL...THOUGH TO YOU IT MAY SEEM POINTLESS, BUT GOD IS A FATHER AND A LOVING GOD, EVEN THOUGH YOU CHOSE TO GO TO HELL IN THE END...

THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT YOU START OUT WITH A WRONG PREMISE, THEN GOES ON RAMBLING FROM THERE, SO INDEED I MUST ADMIT THE SPIRIT OF LIES IS VERY CLEVER. U CHANGE FROM ONE DEFINITION TO ANOTHER, CHANGING THE WORD "KNOWING" TO THE WORDS "CONTROLLING AND DOING"....THEN PEOPLE ARE DELUDED, SATAN IS THE FATHER OF LIES AND THE MASTER OF DELUSION...YOU ARE ONE OF MILLIONS THAT HAVE BEEN TRICKED TO. YOU ARE TRICKED INTO THINKING "KNOWING" MEANS "CONTROLLING AND ESTABLISHING AND DOING"....

NOTE: I DID ANSWER THIS MANY TIMES, BUT YOU JUST DIDNT GET IT, SO HERE IT IS AGAIN.......NO NAME CALLING HERE, RESPOND ABOUT THIS....
 
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TRUTH, GOD IS ALL KNOWING, WHY ARE YOU DOUBTING THIS? ARE YOU MAN OF LITTLE FAITH? WE ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE. GOD KNOWS HIS SHEEP, AND THE SHEEP RECOGNIZE ITS SHEPERD. AT THE END, GOD CALLS ON HIS SHEEP, AND THEY GATHER AND RECOGNIZE HIS VOICE, GOD KNOWS YOU BEFORE YOU CAME TO BE.

AND TRUTHSEEKER, BECAREFULL WHAT YOU SAY, YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE WEAK, IF I PUT ON A MASK OF THE ATHEIST, I CAN GIVE A GOOD ATTACK AGAINST THE BIBLE THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER (BUT I HAVE THE ANSWERS FOR IT). ABOUT THE QOUTES I SAID THAT ARE IN THE BIBLE, TRUST ME THEY ARE IN THERE, AND IF I HAVE TIME I WILL GIVE U THE EXACT QUOTE. I HAVE A FEELING YOUR FAITH IN GOD IS WEAK, BUT THATS OK BECAUSE I WAS LIKE THAT AT YOUR AGE, BUT THE LEARNING PROCESS IS HERE, SO ILL GET BACK AT YOU OK.....
 
Whatsupall:

You still havn't answered the question.

release that caps button... I would love to just ignore this post to make the point that I hate your caps rambles, yet every time you post, you lead me with the false premise that I am that much closer to an understanding with you. Damnit, maybe I can knock some sence into my head, someday.

"MY NEPHEW IS FOLLOWING WHAT I KNOW, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN "I AM CONTROLLING HIM" AND IT DOESNT MEAN "I AM ESTABLISHING THINGS FOR HIM", I DIDNT"

Of course. I agree with you here. I AGREE WITH YOU. I have gone over this many many times and you fail to acknowlege that I do. I know that just because you "KNOW for 100%" that he will do it, doesn't mean you are MAKING him do it. But what I am trying to argue is that because YOU can know, your nephew cannot have a choice, therefore cannot have freewill.

"ITS A FACT THAT MY NEPHEW HAVE FREEWILL, A FACT"

No it is not. We do not know whether we actually have freewill or not. I do not know, you do not know, that is the only fact. If you say that your nephew has freewill, then we can scientifically prove that you cannot know the future 100%, whether you want to believe it or not.

Most people believe that we all have freewill, yet this does not make it true.

"I HAVE A FEELING YOUR FAITH IN GOD IS WEAK, BUT THATS OK BECAUSE I WAS LIKE THAT AT YOUR AGE"

What a subtle insult you gave us here. How do you know what age he is at, huh? Is this a subtle way of calling us children, again? Don't patronize us, you are loosing even the support of fellow Theists.
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
Whatsupall:
Of course. I agree with you here. I AGREE WITH YOU. But what I am trying to argue is that because YOU can know, your nephew cannot have a choice, therefore cannot have freewill..
Click to expand...

You said you agree with me, then you said because I know my nephews act, therefore he doesnt have a freewill?
YOUR DONE FRENCHY....Your losing it....

Originally posted by Frencheneesz

No it is not. We do not know whether we actually have freewill or not. I do not know, you do not know, that is the only fact. If you say that your nephew has freewill, then we can scientifically prove that you cannot know the future 100%, whether you want to believe it or not.
Most people believe that we all have freewill, yet this does not make it true.
Click to expand...

We dont have freewill? We are cyborgs?
YOUR DONE FRENCHY....Your losing it.....

Originally posted by Frencheneesz

What a subtle insult you gave us here. How do you know what age he is at, huh? Is this a subtle way of calling us children, again? Don't patronize us, you are loosing even the support of fellow Theists.
Click to expand...

I didnt come here to get support from kids or even adults, I come here to tell the truth whether you like it or not, whether you claim to be christian or not..I am not here to tickle your ears BUT TO TELL THE TRUTH...

FRENCHY, YOUR DONE....Admit it, you loose....And your loosing your mind too, you think we dont have freewill like cyborgs? Thank God I am not atheist, another reason to PRAISE THE LORD!!
 
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