God does exist.

[MarcAC]

Christians are Humans

Originally posted by tiassa
Thank you for the Landover church quiz. It's always nice to see how stupid people can be. This might actually be a new low: Christians now telling me what Muslims believe. Oh, wait, Falwell already covered that base, didn't he?

It must be embarrassing to be a Christian in the modern day with all these charlatans making political pabulum out of faith. Rather, I would hope it be embarrassing. I would hate to have to reconstruct my perception of Christianity so severely as if Christians thought such things a worthwhile expression of faith.

Wowee-wow-wow-wow.

thanx,
Tiassa

I hope you don't 'have to reconstruct [your] perception of Christianity'. That would show total narrow mindedness - somewhat stereotypical thinking. That is flat earth rationale. Because a Christian guy jumps off a hill and kills himself that means Chritian doctrine has been revised that all Christians should jump off hills and kill themselves?

Hmmmmmmm. What do you think?

 

[MarcAC]

K DARK

K Dark

You still have much more to learn. Don't try to lecture me on something you need to study boy. Do you speak for everyone to know everyone believes their beliefs are correct? I, for one, a nondenominational theist do not know I am correct. I can only believe in what my judgement tells me best, doesn't mean it is right, something many others need to know.

We all still have much to learn Dark. What was the point of that statement? Frankly I don't even know if you are female Dark. Do you have some innate wish for me to be a boy? I hope to my omnipotent God not.

Do you speak for everyone to know everyone believes their beliefs are correct? This one speaks for itself. But to humour you. No I don't, didn't and won't. Well why would you believe it if you didn't think it was correct. O.k. I am quoting the Oxford Dictionary for this one > BELIEF - "a feeling that something exists or is true...".


Wow - you need to review your beliefs and make a decision... *long pause*... Sir.

Your statement has it's relevant applications. But not where atheism and other religions are concerned. I guess theists are in a class by themselves - and deists.


Oh really? Place it totally on religions? Hmmm...did I specifically say so? No, so don't shove words in my mouth.

It wasn't stated it was implied.

Again it was implied within your writing that you didn't know what Christianity was about. You should reread your post. I am a boy. I guess my memory is better. You are right, it is like attacking vapour. That was a good one, I like your humour.

Sorry, I was very busy...but anyways, back in the argument. Stop babbling, it can be avoided. People just need to learn and open their minds.

We are all busy in our own rites Dark.

Lata Dark

 

[Cris]

MarcAC,

quote:

If your god is omniscient then humans can have no free will and such a god is directly responsible for every action and choice you appear to make.

First correction - indirectly responsible.

If you shoot someone with a gun then who is responsible, the gun that fired the bullet or you for pulling the trigger?

If humans have no free will then they are just as powerless to choose what they do in the same way as the gun. If an omniscient creator has planned the entirety of existence from beginning to end and everything has been predetermined (must be true if he is omnipotent) then he is directly responsible for every event. In the same way as the person who pulls the trigger on the gun.

 

[Cris]

Jan,

What is the significant quality which compels us to believe that he existed?

The existence of numerous independent documents.

How do you know he wasn't a figmant of someones imagination which grew into this fantasy figure of a playwriter etc...

The existence of numerous independent documents.

What kind of reason and logic makes you believe that Shakespeare existed?

The existence of numerous independent documents.

Trusted documents are the cornerstone of many proofs. For example, can you prove you were born?

Yes, because i am alive.

What about to someone 100 years after you die?

 

[UltiTruth]

Originally posted by MarcAC
Wow can you give me a link to this info?

MarcAc:
Here is a sciforums thread on Hinduism:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3325

 

[Voodoo Child]

The Hindu philosophy is that there is an all powerful and universal power that is called "Maya", which is beyond human understanding.

I thought Maya was the thing that stopped people(Arjuna, for one) from seeing the true nature of Brahman and the accompanying ultimate reality. Hence, the maze of Maya. Maya is a tricky bitch, I've never quite appreciated how she can be life's creative force and that which leads to the deception that is separateness.

 

[whatsupyall]

Re: Proof

Originally posted by Cris

Proof, it seems depends on two essential factors –

1. The compelling nature of evidence in determining fact.
2. Principles of reasoning.

We know Shakespeare existed because we have a trail of documented evidence that is of such significant quality that it compels us to accept such evidence as fact. By using well-established principles of reasoning (logic) and applying them to the available facts we find we have a proof that Shakespeare existed.

Trusted documents are the cornerstone of many proofs. For example, can you prove you were born? Since you weren’t aware of your environment at the time you cannot be a reliable eyewitness. In this case a birth certificate will be accepted as proof that you were born, at least by most people capable of logical reasoning.

LOL, how do I know those written words are just made up, someones fantasy that today are BELIEVED as a fact, just like the bible, after all you dont value carbon dating, considering the fact that scrolls could date back 1000 years ago, the time of claim, and you still believe that the bible is a lie and that such miracles never happened, EVEN THOUGH IT AFFECTED MILLIONS, in that case, HOW THEN SHOULD I KNOW THAT THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ISNT MADE UP? A LIE, JUST LIKE THE BIBLE.... (I know yur next question will be the supernatural part, well bring it, im waiting...)

cris, u say "The existence of numerous independent documents." is the proof of shakespeare, WELL SO ARE WRITTEN SCROLLS, should those written words then prove its topic to be true? LOL

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Cris
MarcAC,

If you shoot someone with a gun then who is responsible, the gun that fired the bullet or you for pulling the trigger?

If humans have no free will then they are just as powerless to choose what they do in the same way as the gun. If an omniscient creator has planned the entirety of existence from beginning to end and everything has been predetermined (must be true if he is omnipotent) then he is directly responsible for every event. In the same way as the person who pulls the trigger on the gun.

Listen Frencheneez, oh i mean cris. Listen, if you pulled the gun, then you pulled the gun, NOT GOD, YOU STUBBORN GUY.
GOD GAVE YOU FREEWILL, YOU ARE NOT A ROBOT, GOD HAS PLANNED YOUR SALVATION, NOT PLANNED HOW TO CONTROL YOUR LIFE YOU STUBBORN GUY.

DONT USE THE WORD "PREDETERMINED" IN OTHER WORDS "DECIDE" FOR YOU, GOD IS ALL KNOWING, NOT ALL DECIDING, THERES A DIFFERENCE, PREDETERMINATION MEANS SOMEONE MAKES THE DECISION FOR YOU, KNOWING SIMPLY MEANS KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM, DONT MIX KNOWING WITH DOING OK? DONT MIX "ALL KNOWING (OMNISCIENCE" WITH "OMNIPOTENT" ALL POWERFULL, TO BE ALL POWERFULL AND CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS DOESNT MEAN HE CAN LIE AND BREAK HIS PROMISE, GOD IS A POWERFULL GOD, BUT ALSO A HONEST GOD, HE SAID YOU ARE "FREE", SO IF HE TRIES TO STOP U FROM DOING EVIL, OR GOOD, THEN IT MEANS YUR NOT FREE, SO HE CANT BREAK HIS PROMISE.

note: U enjoy mixing words up to prove your lie, u mix "knowing" with "doing", u mix "powerfull" with "lying", you need help, u need therapy.

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

YOU STUBBORN PIECE OF #$%*&!.
YOU PIECE OF MONKEY @#$%*!.

Interesting debating style.

You are clearly worth ignoring.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by Cris
The existence of numerous independent documents.

The same can be said of the existence of God.

The existence of numerous independent documents.

See above.

The existence of numerous independent documents.

See above.

What about to someone 100 years after you die?

1) I wouldn't need to prove i was born.

2) All a birth certificate is, is a piece of paper with writing on it. How do you know it has not been fabricated?

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[UltiTruth]

Originally posted by Voodoo Child
I thought Maya was the thing that stopped people(Arjuna, for one) from seeing the true nature of Brahman and the accompanying ultimate reality. Hence, the maze of Maya. Maya is a tricky bitch, I've never quite appreciated how she can be life's creative force and that which leads to the deception that is separateness.

Voodoo Child:
There is no equivalent English word for Sanskrit "Maya". The closest is "Magic". So I think the mix-up comes from using the same word in two different contexts.
I do not recollect the Arjuna story you mentioned; but essentially the Maya I mentioned was for the "Universal/eternal Magic" and has nothing to do with individual men.
Some modern thinkers believe it is the Supreme energy that runs this universe.

 

[MarcAC]

Originally posted by Cris
whatsup,

Interesting debating style.

You are clearly worth ignoring.

You surely ignored that one.

He is not the only one. At least he doesn't resort to Xpletives.

And what was he going to type there anyway? Can you post it? You should appreciate some humour. You people are so narrow minded.

 

[MarcAC]

Originally posted by Cris
Jan,

The existence of numerous independent documents.

The existence of numerous independent documents.

The existence of numerous independent documents.

What about to someone 100 years after you die?

Hmmmmm. What makes me so sure that God exists?

The existence of numerous independent documents.

 

[Dark Master]

We all still have much to learn Dark. What was the point of that statement?

Based on what you blab on about that I currently have knowledge to, on our issue, you still have much more to learn. Clear enough?

What is this crap? Again broadening??? Of course everyone has more to learn. BUT on the same issues, some people may need to learn more then others. Get it?

Frankly I don't even know if you are female Dark. Do you have some innate wish for me to be a boy?

Nah, it was in a condescending tone to call you boy, if you noticed.

Do you speak for everyone to know everyone believes their beliefs are correct? This one speaks for itself. But to humour you.

Huh?? :bugeye: Now to humour myself below...

No I don't, didn't and won't.

Andddd I'll quote you on something you said earlier below to refute this statement of yours above.

Atheists think their beliefs are correct; christians think theirs are; muslims; jews - and the list goes on. Christian doctrine states that all other religions are false in some kind of paraphrase - so it is unavoidable.

You are speaking for them RIGHT there, so what is this "I don't, didn't, and won't"????

Haha, you humour me with your stupidity and poor debating skills.

Well why would you believe it if you didn't think it was correct. O.k. I am quoting the Oxford Dictionary for this one > BELIEF - "a feeling that something exists or is true...".

Uh what's this crap? And let me ask you this. Is correct and beliefs (religious: something basically believed or accepted as true) exactly the SAME definition???? NO, I don't think so idiot. "God" your stupid. Trying to make another stupid connection???

And there are more definitions for belief then the one you've given, so don't base your argument on that. Foolish one. tsk tsk.

My dictionary:

belief (bî-lêf´) noun
1.The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another.
2.Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something.
3.Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

Wow - you need to review your beliefs and make a decision... *long pause*... Sir.

"Wow," soooo confident are we? You need to review CLOSELY what I just said.

Your statement has it's relevant applications. But not where atheism and other religions are concerned. I guess theists are in a class by themselves - and deists.

Yeah yeah, base on your thinking, I believe no one should listen to you. You hardly know what you are talking about, then you do, and THEN you think you do. Inconsistency.

Again it was implied within your writing that you didn't know what Christianity was about. You should reread your post.

Uh...didn't know what Christianity was about?? Show me. And SHOW me where I "implied that I don't know what Christianity is about."

 

[MarcAC]

Who are we????

Originally posted by Cris
MarcAC,

If you shoot someone with a gun then who is responsible, the gun that fired the bullet or you for pulling the trigger?

If humans have no free will then they are just as powerless to choose what they do in the same way as the gun. If an omniscient creator has planned the entirety of existence from beginning to end and everything has been predetermined (must be true if he is omnipotent) then he is directly responsible for every event. In the same way as the person who pulls the trigger on the gun.

That's a good question. Tell me. Who is responisble?

You know the way the Neutrino guy put it. Where the gun is concerned it is the one who created the gun who is directly responsible. Not YOU for pulling the trigger - and we won't even mention the bullet. So we should exume that guy and put his skeleton in the electric chair.

You all should read Ross Hughs book; Beyond the Cosmos. It would really show you how to THINK out of the box. When you talk about God you are talking about a being who's state of existence transcends our realm. How can we say because he created it all then he makes us do it? In the Bible [Book of Exodus] it is stated where God actually influenced the decision that a person made - namely Pharoah of Egypt. Why would they state that in the Bible if God always influences our decisions?

Again - in higher dimensional math you can actually pack spheres closer together the more dimensions there are. You can turn a ball inside out without breaking it's surface. We can't even imagine how that can be done from our limited existence and our... 'knowledge'. The number 'i' in math which is supposed to be the square root of -1. Does it exist? For that matter does -1 exist? Does any number truly exist? We just created all this crap to explain what we saw around us - and I guess our explanations are coherent. In my opinion - if we meet an alien species their explanation of their surroundings would be totally nondescript to us. Totally abstruse. We can't use our puny brains to try and say God can't exist because - it's smarter to say you don't know. I saw in a post that the atheists here were smart. Then again - from the above you would assume the contrary.

 

[UltiTruth]

Don't follow some of the posts above?
Check this:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12871

 

[UltiTruth]

whatsupyall: Don't lose hope

Originally posted by UltiTruth
whatsupyall:

I read with interest your unique views on Hinduism, about what it professes and what its theories are. I do understand it is an open religion with lots of freedom, but am sure would not accept babble from the mentally retarded in the same spirit. I pity RCC as you seem to be liking it.

Second, you have hope. Try to vigourously shake your head each night until all the hair on your head flies off. Try this for a month and if it does not help you post with a semblance of sense, take an overdose of sleeping pills, quickly run to a deep pond and jump in. If you survive, there is still hope- take printouts of a few of your posts, read them and finally, try to understand them. That will kill you.

Third, we request your permission to use excerpts from your posts. We wish to use them as material for hardy war criminals, they prefer to tell the truth than read one of the posts

I repeat

 

[Cris]

Marc,

How can we say because he created it all then he makes us do it?

Because it is claimed he knows what we are going to do before we do it. That means all our actions have been mapped out in advance, we have had no say in what we will do. That makes humans little more than mindless puppets in the Christian scenario.

In the Bible [Book of Exodus] it is stated where God actually influenced the decision that a person made - namely Pharoah of Egypt. Why would they state that in the Bible if God always influences our decisions?

Yes it is ludicrous, because there are no such things as gods as portrayed by Christianity.

We can't use our puny brains to try and say God can't exist because - it's smarter to say you don't know.

Unless of course the description of a god has mutually exclusive claims such like omniscience coexisting with human free will. The paradox means the defined god cannot exist. This doesn’t preclude the existence of a god with non-paradoxical definitions.

But then who is to say any particular definition of a god is correct? All god definitions appear no more than the result of creative human imagination, speculative fantasies. They are as believable as the tooth fairy, and any other imagined character.

 

[MarcAC]

K Dark... Sir

Firstly Dark

You should not let discussions like this anger you. It suggests poor argumentative skills. We are all here to learn remebere?

Andddd I'll quote you on something you said earlier below to refute this statement of yours above.

Atheists think their beliefs are correct; christians think theirs are; muslims; jews - and the list goes on. Christian doctrine states that all other religions are false in some kind of paraphrase - so it is unavoidable.

So you are telling me that this statement proves I am speaking for everyone?

So your narrow mind thinks that the world consists only of Christians, muslims. and jews?!? I won't even include 'and the list goes on'. If that is your opinion of everyone. Wow. I'll ignore the rest of your posts.

Uh what's this crap? And let me ask you this. Is correct and beliefs (religious: something basically believed or accepted as true) exactly the SAME definition???? NO, I don't think so idiot. "God" your stupid. Trying to make another stupid connection???

Well you would think that if someone believes something is true they do assume it is correct. Well a smart person would. The dictionery meaning were pointless btw. Just more of your vapour. Sorry - can't help it.

Uh...didn't know what Christianity was about?? Show me. And SHOW me where I "implied that I don't know what Christianity is about."

Here you go

The more logical Luke through his gospel shows that he is more theological then Mark and Matthew, universalism, everyone can be saved and everyone should live in peace. You saying that God wants you to tell others the right thing is very similiar to self-glorification, that doesn't tell people specifically how people to live in peace?! Again people would misinterpret that, a MISTAKE many do with the Bible, interpretation. Let me ask you this, what is the right thing to you? Everyone being a Christian? That would be arrogance if one was to say that.

Wow. That statement illustrates your ignorance where Christianity is concerned. Christianity is what you call a missionary religion - You go around and tell people about it. Firstly you know what the message of the Gospels are? - that we should spread them. So I don't see how on earth you're going to spread the gospel if you don't tell people about it. And that is not self glorification - that is exaltation of the Lord and Saviour of ALL Jesus Christ. Of course everyone can be saved. But I'm sure Luke made it clear that you need to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. And to do that you need to know about him and to know about him you need to find out. To find out you have to get the info from a source right? That statement about self glorification is quite narrow - it has no valid point - I see it as an attack on my person.

Lata Dark. Do better next time. I think you know too much. That's the problem.

 

[whatsupyall]

Re: Who are we????

Originally posted by MarcAC
That's a good question. Tell me. Who is responisble?

You know the way the Neutrino guy put it. Where the gun is concerned it is the one who created the gun who is directly responsible. Not YOU for pulling the trigger - and we won't even mention the bullet. So we should exume that guy and put his skeleton in the electric chair.

LOL, GOD CREATED THE EARTH NOT FOR HARMFULL MEANS, BUT FOR US, A GIFT CAN BE USED PROPERLY OR ABUSED. YOU CAN USE A PENCIL AS A WEAPON, u can use a paper and force it in a man's throat and choke him to death, you can use pillow as a weapon, and even a blanket. BUT USES SUCH GIFTS WITH ABUSE? WE DO, thats the problem with people nowadays, you enjoy blaiming others for your own actions but not take responisibility so u can learn from it, blaim God, blaim your mama, but dont blaim yourself.

Originally posted by MarcAC

How can we say because he created it all then he makes us do it? In the Bible [Book of Exodus] it is stated where God actually influenced the decision that a person made - namely Pharoah of Egypt. Why would they state that in the Bible if God always influences our decisions?
.

YES, God influences us as well as the devil. BUT NONE OF THEM CAN TAKE AWAY OUR FREEWILL, WE MAKE DECISIONS FOR OURSELF AND WE CHOOSE OUR OPTIONS, WHETHER IT IS GOOD OR BAD, AND GOD KNOWS ALREADY WHAT WERE GOING TO PICK BEFORE YOU PICK YOUR OPTIONS, NOT ONLY BECAUSE HE CREATED US AND THAT HE KNOWS HOW WE REACT TO THINGS, BUT HE ALSO KNOWS HOW THE DEVIL WORKS.

Originally posted by lost soul Cris,

Because it is claimed he knows what we are going to do before we do it. THEREFORE---------------------> That means all our actions have been mapped out in advance, we have had no say in what we will do.THEREFORE-----------------------> That makes humans little more than mindless puppets in the Christian scenario.

DO YOU GUYS SEE THE PROBLEM? CRIS ENJOYS PUTTING WORDS IN OUR MOUTH AND MAKING HIS OWN PATHETIC INTERPRETATION.
CRIS,ONCE AGAIN GOD IS ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFULL, ALL GOOD, ETC. (THATS WHY HE IS CALLED GOD), GOD KNOWS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO EVEN BEFORE YOUR MAMA WAS BORN, "I KNOW YOU BEFORE U CAME TO BE".
BUT AGAIN, KNOWING SOMETHING DOESNT MEAN DOING SOMETHING. JUST BECAUSE I KNOW MY SISTER IS GOING TO SLEEP AT AROUND MIDNIGHT TONIGHT BECAUSE SHE TOLD ME, IT DOESNT MEAN I MADE HER SLEEP, EVEN IF ICREATED HER BEDROOM, BEDSHEATS, TIMER, HOUSE, CLOTHES, SHE DOES ACORDING TO HER DECISION. EVEN IF I TOLD HER TO GO TO SLEEP AND PERSUADE HER, SHE STILL HAS THE FREEDOM TO REJECT MY REQUEST. STUBBORN GUY.

NOTE: I WONDER WHEN YOU WILL ABSORB THIS IN YOUR BRAIN...IF U HAVE ONE THAT IS...