Gay Churches Decline / Fundamental Churches Grow

[Giambattista]

Lawdog:



What's the "True Church"? I haven't heard of that one.

Maybe you didn't know this, but you're talking to Catholic.

I am assured that you saw his post about how we know that God exists.

 

[Woody]

James R said:

Liberal churches are hardly dying. In fact, the world churches with the largest memberships are gradually becoming more liberal. For example, see recent changes in the Anglican church in the UK and Episcopalean church in the US.

Well actually I've already covered this.

Church Executive Magazine

The winners typically have taken the more conservative approach:

1. The Catholic Church, 67,820,833 members, reporting an increase of .83 percent.

4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5,999,177 members, reporting an increase of 1.74 percent.

10. Assemblies of God, 2,779,095 members, reporting an increase of 1.81 percent.

24. The Orthodox Church in America, 1,064,000 members, reporting an increase of 6.40 percent.

no change:

5. The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members, no increase or decrease reported.

6. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc., 5,000,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

8. National Baptist Convention of America, 3,500,000, no increase or decrease reported.

11. African Methodist Episcopal Church, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

12. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

13. Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc., 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported

16. Churches of Christ, 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc., 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

19. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, 1,432,795 members, no increase or decrease reported.

22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International, 1,200,000, no increase or decrease reported.

23. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, 1,071,615 members, no increase or decrease reported.

The losers:

2. The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,267,494 members, reporting a decrease of 1.05 percent.

3. The United Methodist Church, 8,186,254 members, reporting a decrease of .79 percent.

7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,930,429, reporting a decrease of 1.09 percent.

9. Presbyterian Church (USA), 3,189,573 members, reporting a decrease of 1.60 percent.

14. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,463,747, reporting a decrease or 1.01 percent.

15. Episcopal Church, 2,463,747, reporting a decrease of 1.55 percent.

20. American Baptist Churches in the USA, 1,432,840, reporting a decrease of .57 percent.

21. United Church of Christ, 1,265,786, reporting a decrease of 2.38 percent.

25. Jehovah's Witnesses, 1,029,902 members, reporting a decrease of 1.07 members.

All of the losers have gone pro-gay, or they are divided over S/S marririage. SBs have embraced fellowship of the brethren - a progay organization. Lutherans are pro-gay. Do I really need to say anything about the Presby (USA) denomination or the Episcopals that hasn't already been said in the news? ABCs are leaning gay. Church of Christ -- gay. JW's are leaning gay. Even the methodists are struggling in this area.

Out of interest, Woody, what is your denomination?

I'm just a christian. I don't cling to a denominational status.

To all the rest of the posts -- I don't respond to hate mail anymore, I'm just getting too lazy for it.

BTW: The majority of the people in america don't want same sex marriage. I read that Massachussets, the only state in the union that permits SSM, could put the issue to popular vote. If so, this scourge on america will likely be terminated.

This isn't about civil rights which everyone deserves, or civil unions which gays already have anyway, it's about an assault against humanity through moral decadence, and the usurping of that which is good and decent then equating it with that which has no honor to the putrification of the whole institution of marriage. Marriage will no longer be honorable in my opinion and the opinion of the majority of americans who will very gladly vote against the same-sex copycat version of it -- we thought of it first, and we are in the majority so kiss off.

 

[KennyJC]

1) it harms the individual himself, who uses his "tools" in a wrong way and puts himself in danger of serious maladies.

Does this also apply to walking on your hands (using your "tools" in a wrong way) and falling over and hurting yourself (putting yourself in danger).

 

[Silas]

The losers:

2. The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,267,494 members, reporting a decrease of 1.05 percent.

3. The United Methodist Church, 8,186,254 members, reporting a decrease of .79 percent.

7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,930,429, reporting a decrease of 1.09 percent.

9. Presbyterian Church (USA), 3,189,573 members, reporting a decrease of 1.60 percent.

14. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,463,747, reporting a decrease or 1.01 percent.

15. Episcopal Church, 2,463,747, reporting a decrease of 1.55 percent.

20. American Baptist Churches in the USA, 1,432,840, reporting a decrease of .57 percent.

21. United Church of Christ, 1,265,786, reporting a decrease of 2.38 percent.

25. Jehovah's Witnesses, 1,029,902 members, reporting a decrease of 1.07 members.

All of the losers have gone pro-gay, or they are divided over S/S marririage.

Seriously, Woody? The Southern Baptists? The Evangelical Lutheran Church? The Lutherans in Missouri? These are all Fundamentalist congregations, Wood. You're going to have to provide sources for each and every one of these churches having apparently become liberal on gay issues. The only one there that has done so is, of course, the Episcopal (Anglican) Church, the so-called "mainstream" Christian Church in the USA.

Incidentally, your first post included the following poll result:

Churchgoers Disapprove of Gay and Lesbian Pastors
86% Agree Government Should Stay Out of It

If 86% agree that the Government should stay out of it, please explain why the same people are pushing for a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution - in other words a law that applies across the whole Federation and takes the deciding power away from the several States.

 

[Giambattista]

To all the rest of the posts -- I don't respond to hate mail anymore, I'm just getting too lazy for it.

Hate mail? Well deserved criticisms are what I call them. And I don't think you're all that good at responding to many of them, if you responded at all.

You are, in your own words, "Pissy pissy pissy."

 

[imaplanck.]

I think there should be gay churches because gays are nearly the same as normal people like black men.

 

[Lawdog]

What's the "True Church"? I haven't heard of that one.

The Roman Catholic Church

Are you talking about sexually transmitted diseases? Heterosexual people can get those, too, if they have unprotected sex.

Thats true, and fornication is also a sin.

And what's "the wrong way" to use one's "tools"?

whats the right way to use a hammer? Need I elaborate?

Are you claiming that homosexual people cannot love one another? How did you reach that conclusion?

Yes, homosexual couples are incapable of genuine love. God is the author of love. He does not allow the love that he grants to married couples to be used as a bond for homosexual unions. These are only capable of a simulated love and commitment. The same goes for those couples who merely live together without the benefit of married. They have created a destructive pattern for themselves and better find a way out.

Many people never marry. What did God do with their destined spouses?

God did not destine everyone to have spouses.

Many male-female couples never have children. Are their unions worthless, too?

No, although having children is a good....God does not grant all gifts to everyone , but perhaps God's wisdom has spared them certain difficulties.

But all children have parents of both genders. Or are you talking about role models or guardians, perhaps? What's wrong with two same-sex guardians?

For one, it denies the child inimate experience of father/mother with the gender that is missing.

Does it? God said not to eat shellfish either. I hope you don't eat Lobster, Lawdog. Or wear clothes which are of mixed cloth, such as cotton/polyester blends. God said that is an abomination.




Maybe you should remind people not to mix their clothing fibres, too. That would be equally important, wouldn't it?

Not appropriate analogies

 

[Cris]

Lawdog,

Not appropriate analogies

Why not? The main objection to homosexuality in the bible comes from Leviticus where in equal weighted clauses eating shelffish, wearing clothes of diffeent material, and male homosexuality are all to be punished by death.

I hope everyone can see clearly that at least two of these are quite ridiculous so why out of a list of idiocies pick one as an excuse to exercise intolerance and not the others? Why are you not condemning everyone who eat shellfish and wearing mixed blends of clothing in equal measure to homosexuality?

Can you not see that all are equally non-sensical?

 

[Cris]

Lawdog,

Yes, homosexual couples are incapable of genuine love. God is the author of love. He does not allow the love that he grants to married couples to be used as a bond for homosexual unions. These are only capable of a simulated love and commitment. The same goes for those couples who merely live together without the benefit of married. They have created a destructive pattern for themselves and better find a way out.

And in that overwhelmingly ignorant statement comes the religious condoned hatred and intolerance for others. This is one of the fundamantal proofs of why Christianity is considerably evil and needs to be openly opposed.

 

[Woody]

Lawdog,

And in that overwhelmingly ignorant statement comes the religious condoned hatred and intolerance for others. This is one of the fundamantal proofs of why Christianity is considerably evil and needs to be openly opposed.

It's statements like yours that assure us we are right.

I find word studies quite interesting. For christians the dictionary is the second bible:

Here's a good one from the Wiki:

Christianophobia

Christianophobia, sometimes (if ungrammatically) called christophobia, is a term used by some to describe an irrational fear or hatred of Christians, or Christianity in general.

I might add, they use the term xian to speak of christians.

Here is another interesting word: Bigotry

The exact origin of the term is unknown, but may have come from the German bei and gott, or the English by God. William Camden wrote that the Normans were first called bigots, when their Duke Rollo, who receiving Gisla, daughter of King Charles, in marriage, and with her the investiture of the dukedom, refused to kiss the king's foot in token of subjection, unless the king would hold it out for that purpose. And being urged to it by those present, Rollo answered hastily, "No by God", whereupon the King turning about, called him bigot; which name passed from him to his people [1]. This is likely fictional, however, as Gisla is unknown in Frankish sources. It is true that the French used the term bigot as an abuse for the Normans.[2]

The 12th century Anglo-Norman author Wace claimed that bigot was an insult that the French used against the Normans, but it is unclear whether it entered the English language via this route.[3]

When it comes to kissing feet, I think I'll pass, also for kissing butts, or anything else inappropriate. Therfore, I'm a bigot, and if you're not one then you can kiss my butt in a most unbigoted fashion.

Also, the french can kiss my butt anyway -- I'm a Norman.

Here's another good word: homophobia

The fact that "homophobia" contains the word "phobia" leads some people to reject the term outright, and to criticize it as an unnecessarily or even maliciously loaded term, since "clinical homophobia" is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Nevertheless, homosexual panic has been successfully used as a defense in legal cases, though this defense is no longer permissible in many jurisdictions.

Way to bust a dialogue!

Why not? The main objection to homosexuality in the bible comes from Leviticus where in equal weighted clauses eating shelffish, wearing clothes of diffeent material, and male homosexuality are all to be punished by death.

Nope it comes from the apostle Paul in the new testament, which says clearly, homosexuals are going to hell, and that they deserve every bit of the punishment they will get there -- not just because they are homo, but because they gave themselves up to it, and condemned everthing that is good and wholesome in the process. Good will be called evil, and evil will be called good -- this is what our bible tells us, and this is what the antichrist will do. As you said in another thread, Cris, you are antichrist. May I quote your words again from this thread:

Christianity is considerably evil and needs to be openly opposed.

These are very close to the words of THE antichrist, and you have spoken them. Yes, I agree that you are an antichrist.

 

[Bowser]

My assumption is that the church exists for everyone. If homosexuals are searching for something greater than their own homosexuality, then they should be welcomed into the church with open arms. I don't think the church need accept homosexuality. It's the individual that should be embraced.

I also feel that if an organized religion holds dear a doctrine that prohibits homosexuality, then that belief should be respected and left to its own.

 

[redarmy11]

Here's a good one from the Wiki:

Christianophobia

Christianophobia, sometimes (if ungrammatically) called christophobia, is a term used by some to describe an irrational fear or hatred of Christians, or Christianity in general.

Finally my illness has a name. Praise the lard.

 

[Hapsburg]

The first post in this thread makes me think "is this Woody fella just Fred Phelps in disguise?"...:bugeye:

 

[Provita]

So the RCC, a church which has caused more death than any other Christian church, a church that supported Hitler and the Nazis during WW2, the church that began the inquisition, the church which fought against Galileo because he stated the world wasnt the center of the universe, is the true church? Heh.


by the way, whats wrong with same sex marriages? it doesnt change anything. its civil, not religious bondage. Sure, fight over your little "gays cannot be married in churches" ordeal, but they should be able to be married on ships and by judges, because all it does is give gays the chance to say they are married. by denying same sex marriage you are not stopping homosexuality one bit, and there is probably even more chance of them having sex more with other people, since they arent married and all... they can just ... break up... no hassle in divorce and stuff... so its a lot easier to cheat and have sex a lot.

After all, thats what u homophobic prejudice hardheaded pricks are fighting againt, right? the right to have sex with someone of the same gender...

 

[imaplanck.]

My assumption is that the church exists for everyone. If homosexuals are searching for something greater than their own homosexuality, then they should be welcomed into the church with open arms. I don't think the church need accept homosexuality. It's the individual that should be embraced.

I also feel that if an organized religion holds dear a doctrine that prohibits homosexuality, then that belief should be respected and left to its own.

I think normal people should let gay people in churches even if the bible says not to. God didn't mean the bible to be followed properly, not all the time anyway.

 

[Bowser]

I think normal people should let gay people in churches even if the bible says not to. God didn't mean the bible to be followed properly, not all the time anyway.

I don't believe it is so much the idea of allowing homosexuals in church. It is more the idea of allowing homosexuality in church. The church is a social gathering of familiar beliefs, each being--though diverse--a microcosm of the larger Christian theology. Homosexuality has never been an acceptable practice within the larger Christian understanding. I don't believe that a homosexual union has any place within a Christian Church or within the Christian mind.

The Bible is an open book and widely available. Make of it what you want.

 

[redarmy11]

The Bible is an open book and widely available. Make of it what you want.

Yes, and people do. Therein lies the problem.

 

[imaplanck.]

I don't believe it is so much the idea of allowing homosexuals in church. It is more the idea of allowing homosexuality in church. The church is a social gathering of familiar beliefs, each being--though diverse--a microcosm of the larger Christian theology. Homosexuality has never been an acceptable practice within the larger Christian understanding. I don't believe that a homosexual union has any place within a Christian Church or within the Christian mind.

The Bible is an open book and widely available. Make of it what you want.

What if they have a wall down the middle and homo sapiens can sit on one sid and normal people with children on the other?

 

[redarmy11]

What if they have a wall down the middle and homo sapiens can sit on one sid and normal people with children on the other?

Yes, or maybe they could set light to the seats on one side to remind all the fruits where they're heading if they don't change their sinful ways. What do you think, Woody?

 

[Bowser]

Yes, and people do. Therein lies the problem.

I see it as being a subjective read, depending on what answers you are searching. Others find their answers in science and externalism. The World will never agree on those things.