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“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
But acordin to those Muslim beleifs... sinse God does have knowedge of the future... then God does not have free will.??? ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
God is the only one who has true 'free will,' because His will is independent of all creation. Ours is not.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
O... so i guess these are you'r actual beleifs... i had asumed you was jus usin Muslim beleifs as a way to make clear you'r positon about free will.!!!
Well anyhow... beleifs are irrelevent as far as the truth of free-will... but it is interestin to see people use ther beleifs to argue a pont.!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Befor God created humans... God (if he has free-will) desided esactly how he woud design humans to behave... so humans can not behave any other way than they were designed to behave... an sinse God is all-knowin... the instent he desided on the creaton plan he woud put into acton... the fates of all humans was sealed... they can never do anythang diferent than what God has always known they wooud do... an that has nuthin to do wit whether God is outside of time an space (whatever that is) or not.!!! ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
God does not have to define Himself to us, but we must explain ourselves to God. What God wishes, He does. There does not have to be a logic behind it.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Yeah... beleifs cant be questoned an therfor have no bidness in a logical discusson.!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
But anybody can make up any sort of beleifs they want... an as far as facts are concerned... unevidenced beleifs are irrelevent.!!! ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
Hence truth is independent of us. It exists whether we accept it or not.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
I coudnt agree mor
"Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
That dont necesarly jus aply to atheists... but it does seem fact-based/logical.!!! ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
Yeah, its the athiest view which I have explained. Yet to athiests the question remains then, why do only humans have free will?
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Huh.??? Im a agnostic/atheist type an i dont wonder that at all... i see zero evidence for "free-will"... much less that only humans have "it".!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I see whare its deceptive as taut by the Muslim beleifs... but how is the atheist/fact-based ideas about free-will deceptive.??? ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
According to the Atheist view, we are a product of our environment and biological evolution, thus people can't really control how they act as nature governs the choices they make in their life. Society being an extension of nature. Thus this idea negates free will. According to Athiests, no human has free will because that implies we are not governed by external forces like nature.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Yes... escellent... what is factually deceptive about that.???
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
The religious view, Muslim in particular, accepts free will as the will of God, thus our will exists inside God's will and is limited by the limits set by God Himself. Thus we are given free will, to a degree, but we are still governed by the environment and other factors, which can effect our decision making, and also our future actions are all known by God before they occur. These factors are taken into account when we are judged by God. This is a bit complicated, but you will understand if you view God as outside creation and the limits of creation, thus time is of irrelevance to God.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Yes... thats mostly beleifs... not based on facts... beleifs differ from country to country person to peerson... facts are universal... so if you'r lookin for decepton look no further than beleifs.!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
But acordin to those Muslim beleifs... sinse God does have knowedge of the future... then God does not have free will.??? ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
God is the only one who has true 'free will,' because His will is independent of all creation. Ours is not.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
O... so i guess these are you'r actual beleifs... i had asumed you was jus usin Muslim beleifs as a way to make clear you'r positon about free will.!!!
Well anyhow... beleifs are irrelevent as far as the truth of free-will... but it is interestin to see people use ther beleifs to argue a pont.!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Befor God created humans... God (if he has free-will) desided esactly how he woud design humans to behave... so humans can not behave any other way than they were designed to behave... an sinse God is all-knowin... the instent he desided on the creaton plan he woud put into acton... the fates of all humans was sealed... they can never do anythang diferent than what God has always known they wooud do... an that has nuthin to do wit whether God is outside of time an space (whatever that is) or not.!!! ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
God does not have to define Himself to us, but we must explain ourselves to God. What God wishes, He does. There does not have to be a logic behind it.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Yeah... beleifs cant be questoned an therfor have no bidness in a logical discusson.!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
But anybody can make up any sort of beleifs they want... an as far as facts are concerned... unevidenced beleifs are irrelevent.!!! ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
Hence truth is independent of us. It exists whether we accept it or not.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
I coudnt agree mor
"Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
That dont necesarly jus aply to atheists... but it does seem fact-based/logical.!!! ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
Yeah, its the athiest view which I have explained. Yet to athiests the question remains then, why do only humans have free will?
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Huh.??? Im a agnostic/atheist type an i dont wonder that at all... i see zero evidence for "free-will"... much less that only humans have "it".!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I see whare its deceptive as taut by the Muslim beleifs... but how is the atheist/fact-based ideas about free-will deceptive.??? ”
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
According to the Atheist view, we are a product of our environment and biological evolution, thus people can't really control how they act as nature governs the choices they make in their life. Society being an extension of nature. Thus this idea negates free will. According to Athiests, no human has free will because that implies we are not governed by external forces like nature.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Yes... escellent... what is factually deceptive about that.???
“Originally Posted by DiamondHeart"
The religious view, Muslim in particular, accepts free will as the will of God, thus our will exists inside God's will and is limited by the limits set by God Himself. Thus we are given free will, to a degree, but we are still governed by the environment and other factors, which can effect our decision making, and also our future actions are all known by God before they occur. These factors are taken into account when we are judged by God. This is a bit complicated, but you will understand if you view God as outside creation and the limits of creation, thus time is of irrelevance to God.
“Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund"
Yes... thats mostly beleifs... not based on facts... beleifs differ from country to country person to peerson... facts are universal... so if you'r lookin for decepton look no further than beleifs.!!!