Fetuses have no rights and hence it is alright to kill them
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Oh its okay not to agree with her position. I have never understood the right to life lobby, I understand why they could be against abortion for themselves and would make other choices but I don't understand their insistence that no other should have that right.
(I don't see how the above is an equivalent example.)
It would be more equivalent if I said "so that she, the mother, wouldn't starve" but I would actually not understand that point of view and might even resort to some violence if she said so, so I made it even more altruistic on her part.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Ah so they should both starve
Women who sell their children come from very poor circumstances. It happens quite frequently in Cambodia as Jolie could very well tell you. I know an american woman who was given a child, literally, no adoption or anything of the sort because she couldn't care for it and she figured that any westerner would have more money so she just gave it away. Notice how rare it is for women to sell children in a affluent society? Just say to yourself Sam 'but for the grace of god there go I' (figured you would understand those terms even if you cannot empathize)
But we digress.
Which is why I said I would understand. My grandmother was a very poor woman. She lost her husband at the age of 25 and was left with three daughters. She made other choices. So I feel that there are always more humane and more intelligent choices. Not everyone is capable of making them. But they exist.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Not everyone has them either. Your grandmother's choices were hers. The woman who gave her child away was lucky that someone knew an american so she would have the choice to give it up to someone with money. Similarly she is lucky that the american was a good person and not a trafficker or had connections with child pornographers.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Trees have no rights and hence it is alright to kill them.
Mosquitoes have no rights and hence it is alright to kill them.
Mice have no rights and hence it is alright to kill them.
Should I go on ?
Also, on what basis do you think fetuses should have rights ?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
The child has no clue she was given away. The american takes excellent care of it and, she has full staff, a khmer family who has raised it as their own and who has papers declaring it as a member of their family. Its quite complicated really since there are many caregivers in the pot but the child does call the american woman mom is quite a pampered child. The child is better off yes but there is a lot of luck in that, it could have easily been otherwise.
Hey, wait just a freakin' minute!! Some trees damned sure do have rights to live!! And in many, if not all, bigger cities with the trees planted along or in the sidewalk, it's a freakin' crime to kill one of 'em!!
Now fetuses are another story ......and it's one that I don't know. I just ain't smart enough to make that decision, so I'll leave it to brighter people than me.
Baron Max
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Those trees don't have rights at all. When the local authorities decide to uproot them to make place for whatever else or to replace them with other or young trees, they go.
WORLDWIDE
Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 115,000
Where abortions occur:
83% of all abortions are obtained in developing countries and 17% occur in developed countries.
© Copyright 1996-2008, The Alan Guttmacher Institute. (www.agi-usa.org)
UNITED STATES
Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700
Who's having abortions (age)?
52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.
Who's having abortions (race)?
While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.
Who's having abortions (marital status)?
64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.
Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".
Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.
Why women have abortions
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).
At what gestational ages are abortions performed:
52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.
Likelihood of abortion:
An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.
Abortion coverage:
48% of all abortion facilities provide services after the 12th week of pregnancy. 9 in 10 managed care plans routinely cover abortion or provide limited coverage. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds, virtually all of which are state funds. 16 states (CA, CT, HI, ED, IL, MA , MD, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) pay for abortions for some poor women.
=============================
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
This is somthing that me and my daughter have spoken about in great detail very recently, and it seems that the perants can have a choice about what to do, but in the end the choice is the daughters, personally i would not force my daughter to have an abortion it would have to be her choice, i wouldnt be happy if that is what she chose to do, but however it would be her choice, also you have to factor in the childs father at some point, what is his feelings on the matter,
if the woman's health is at risk or the fetus is not viable then a third trimester abortion may be necessary.
The real immorality is people like you sticking their nose into what is a private matter between the woman, her spouse and her doctor.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
And thank god they're all dead.
42 million more babies a year would make about 3 BILLION (yes, that's roughly half of the worlds population today !!) extra people in an average human lifetime (70 years).
And that's NOT INCLUDING the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren these babies will have at the end of that lifetime.
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what if the womans health wasnt at risk? should she be allowed then to have a third trimester abortion, (which by the way, some babies are born early in the third trimester and have lived)
we have allready assertained that babies in the third trimester have rights, so then isnt a third trimester abortion murder?
and the world would adjust!
I have difficulty in accepting that a bundle of cells is a baby, but something that kicks, smiles, sucks its thumb, wakes and sleeps in a womb, looks very much to me like a baby.
I'm talking about the modern photographic techniques which show very young babies inside their mothers.
Perhaps my viewpoint is not scientific enough.
I'm talking about the modern photographic techniques which show very young babies inside their mothers.
Perhaps my viewpoint is not scientific enough.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
What exactly would adjust ?
i dont put to much stock into the world being over populated Enmos, there are various ways not to get pregnant take some flippin precutions for christ sake! that way you wont have a problem with to many children,