Female Genital Mutilation: An Islamic Practice

[WildBlueYonder]

drives females? all of them? lol. What a ninny.

As usual, you can’t answer a question
But as usual, you attempt a re-direct, an end-around

Where, pray tell, did I say “ALL FEMALES”?
It says, direct quote, “so something within islam (or seemingly approved by) drives families to FGM”, there are no quantitative qualifiers in that statement, that would be; words that connote, denote or imply numbers or how many are being talked about

I think I read somewhere that you want to be a teacher? How could you parse my statement, and derive a totally unrelated idea from it? Could it be that you are now grasping at straws, drowning, & unsure how to salvage truth from your cherished “Islamic thought-control” mind-set?

You, my dear girl, with that attitude, will end up a very bitter old hag, struggling to teach kids that you can not communicate with, mis-understanding them, mis-leading them, all because of a set-in-concrete mentality, that does dervish dances trying to make sense of a modern world, so sorry for you, that spins out of your control, whilst the 7th century Arabian model; is refined, re-defined, studied, re-studied to turn it back to its 7th century purity, allst the while its adherents screaming, “why won’t it work?”

The answer is both simple & complex; NO 7th century module of a(n) fill-in-the-blank here world-view, can survive un-evolved, un-examined, un-refined, to answer 7th, 21st or 32nd century questions of existence, creation, or salvation, without failing humans miserably without that process, (case in point, islam).

Meet your Savior here:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat001.html#top

questions answered here:
http://www.leestrobel.com/
http://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/Bible_Answer_Man/?gclid=CISi8urShI0CFSA4hgodAiuzhA
http://www.gotquestions.org/?gclid=CKaMxLfShI0CFR7KYAodkDwnoA
http://www.oneplace.com/

as they say, all the rest is commentary

 

[DiamondHearts]

because islam does re-enforce a male-dominated, male-centered, patriarchal culture (or are you going to deny that too?)

How exactly do you expect me to answer this question?

If you know everything there is about Islam and Muslims, then the discussion is already over.

Why even bother asking us if you have already made up your mind of what we believe, even though what we say contradicts everything you say Muslims believe?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

How exactly do you expect me to answer this question?

If you know everything there is about Islam and Muslims, then the discussion is already over.

Why even bother asking us if you have already made up your mind of what we believe, even though what we say contradicts everything you say Muslims believe?

my dear DH's, if its not true, please de-bunk, examples please,
can women drive in S. Arabia?
can they vote & run in islamic states?
can women preach, teach in mosques?
examples please, don't surrender so easily, unless I'm right & its true?

 

[DiamondHearts]

my dear DH's, if its not true, please de-bunk, examples please,
can women drive in S. Arabia?

This has nothing to do with Islam, as a matter of fact this is completely forbidden in Islam.

There are many other things wrong with the Saudi regime, this stems from their lack of respect for Islam and for their citizens, yet they are the best friends of the US though they are far more cruel than Saddam ever was.

The Saudi royal family is known by all to have no care for Islamic principles, they drink, go to night clubs, build large palaces, etc. They are accomplices in the poverty of their people and also the subjugation of the Islamic world.

Women have all the rights of men and can drive, work, teach, or be leaders, these are rights guaranteed by Islam. To deny people of the rights guaranteed by the Noble Prophet (peace be to him) is an insult to all Muslims.

can they vote & run in islamic states?

Yes, they can vote in all muslim countries where there are no kings or tyrants in power (many backed by Western powers).

Women can vote in Palestine, Lebanon, Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Turkey, etc.


Women have been the heads of state of Pakistan and Bangladesh. I'm sure there are other countries.

can women preach, teach in mosques?

Yes, and this is encouraged in Islam.

examples please, don't surrender so easily, unless I'm right & its true?

You seem to have made up your mind on so much of our beliefs for us, therefore I was saying 'why even ask if you have decided what we believe already?'.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

The reality of daily fact seems to differ from the reality that you claim exists.

Lecture focuses on Islam, women
On campus Monday, Chesler addressed topics of female oppression in the Muslim ... including gang rape, honor killings, and genital mutilation,” she said. ...
http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2007/apr/17/lecture_focuses_islam_women/print/

 

[ashura]

DiamondHearts, can you provide evidence for gender equality in the scripture?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

This has nothing to do with Islam, as a matter of fact this is completely forbidden in Islam.

then why does it still exist? not behead-able enough?

You seem to have made up your mind on so much of our beliefs for us, therefore I was saying 'why even ask if you have decided what we believe already?'.

you mean, I'm not easily swayed by your "sweet as honey" "from an authority figure" words

I read, see the news, prove me wrong

use google, must I do your work for you? educate yourself, your culture has apparently kept you blindfolded about islam, explore now, read for yourself,
if you read arabic, search for copies of original sources, see for yourself
you have hadiths, histories, the quran

you read & understand english, so see if there were non-standard qurans found in Yemen
find out if Calif Uthman forcibly standardized the quran, by complying all sources,
then burning all variant qurans, & all quranic inscriptions on scraps, bones, stones, palm leaves
& sending the 4 so-called "originals" to the 4 corners of his realm

find out for yourself

oh, and exceptions don't prove the rule

 

[S.A.M.]

exceptions don't prove the rule

The irony is amazing

 

[WildBlueYonder]

The irony is amazing

I'm glad you find that amusing, my little taqiyya

 

[Grantywanty]

POSITIVE NEWS from a tragedy, but nevertheless....


A girl recently died getting her clitoris removed in Egypt despite a 10 year old ban on the practice. 97% of married women in Egpyt have undergone the practice but finally the public has had enough. A new ban has been imposed and there are signs of it actually working this time.

SAM Take note. The religious leaders in the country do not agree with your idea that this is a ´women´s issue´and have come out publicly, finally, and heartily supported the ban. You were wrong about this issue not that I am holding my breath that you will admit it.

Since the practice was set up to assuage men´s fears and men weilding the power of not marrying women who had not undergone this process (a very powerful economic and social weapon since the girls become non-persons in Islamic cultures if they cannot marry, non-persons in terms of social role, value and economic hope) their participation in the ban is critical.



I am very glad that at least some Islamic leaders in one country have decided this is not a non-issue even though it 'only' involves women's bodies and potential pleasure and safety.

You can damn well bet that Imams would have an opinion about a procedure that made it unlikely for men to have orgasms. (and circumcision, of course, does not do this)

 

[sandy]

The practice is barbaric. Morons decided women's sexual desires would be curbed by sawing off her clitoris.

The desire starts in the brain, not the clitoris. The desire can be hormone related and has little to do with the clitoris. Arousal starts way before the clitoris is involved.

The moron who first started this mutilation was probably an insecure, impotent man who didn't want his woman to know what she was missing. He probably just wanted to use her as his punching bag/sperm receptacle.

Hopefully this most vicious mutilation against women will be outlawed soon.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287393,00.html

 

[S.A.M.]

The practice was started in Egypt and Egyptians still consider women without FGM as masculine.

 

[sandy]

Sawing off a woman's clitoris is alike sawing off a man's penis.

And that particular Egyptian "masculine" thinking is barbaric, neanderthal, and idiotic.

 

[S.A.M.]

It was in ancient Egypt so I don't know if it was masculine or not. Something about spiritual dualism. (Some of the pharaohs were female)

 

[DiamondHearts]

DiamondHearts, can you provide evidence for gender equality in the scripture?

The Prophet (peace be to him) said 'The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his wife.'

3:195. And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: [Equality] Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards."

16:97 Who so does that which is right, and believes, whether male or female, him or her will We quicken to happy life.

33:35 For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for truthful men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.

Please read this for more info: http://www.messageonline.org/2003augsept/cover1.htm

 

[ashura]

The Prophet (peace be to him) said 'The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his wife.'

3:195. And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: [Equality] Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards."

16:97 Who so does that which is right, and believes, whether male or female, him or her will We quicken to happy life.

33:35 For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for truthful men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.

Please read this for more info: http://www.messageonline.org/2003augsept/cover1.htm

Thanks for the response. In these quotes, I see not gender equality but spiritual equality, which is close but not quite what I meant. For example, the first quote doesn't mention a thing about equality in life; all it says is that God will never ignore the work of a Muslim, and that he'll reward them for such a thing, be they man or woman. The second and third have similar sentiments. I'm looking for something that is more blatant and also refers specifically to life on this Earth. There are a number of such sentiments in the link you posted, but unfortunately no Quran quotes or sura numbers are attached to validate those particular statements. If you could find one, I'd be very happy.

 

[S.A.M.]

The Quran chapter and verse is given in each statement.

e.g. #

The Qur’an ended the cruel Pre-Islamic practice of female infanticide, wa'd: "And when the girl [who was] buried alive is asked, for what sin she was killed." (Qur’an 81:8-9).

is Quran chapter 81, verse 8 and 9

 

[ashura]

The Quran chapter and verse is given in each statement.

e.g. #

The Qur’an ended the cruel Pre-Islamic practice of female infanticide, wa'd: "And when the girl [who was] buried alive is asked, for what sin she was killed." (Qur’an 81:8-9).

is Quran chapter 81, verse 8 and 9

C'mon S.A.M., give me a little credit. I did actually read the thing you know.

Not in every one:

Prophet Muhammad taught kindness, care and respect toward women in general:

"I commend you to be kind to women". It is significant that such instruction of the Prophet was among his final instructions and reminders in the "farewell pilgrimage" address given shortly before his passing away.

 

[S.A.M.]

C'mon S.A.M., give me a little credit. I did actually read the thing you know.

Not in every one:

Prophet Muhammad taught kindness, care and respect toward women in general:

"I commend you to be kind to women". It is significant that such instruction of the Prophet was among his final instructions and reminders in the "farewell pilgrimage" address given shortly before his passing away.

Ah that is from the Prophets statements, not from the Quran.
http://www.geocities.com/mewatch99/finalsermon.html

 

[darksidZz]

I beg of you someone please, please remove this thread to the cesspool, it's disgusting and sick :L