Mary and Jesus, clearly.
Evolution & Creationism: Why can't people believe both?
- Thread starter seekeroftheway
- Start date
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
It was a supernatural impact on morality for those who believed.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Jesus yes maybe, Mary, who knows?
The same effect Batman has on children.
By the way, Jesus did not found a new religion. He wished to reform Jydaism.
Paul, the epileptic ranter founded Christianity.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Agreed.
According to traditional Christian doctrine, Mary never sinned. Hence the need for immaculate conception.
True.
Then why bother laying down all the rules in a book? :bugeye:
Jesus wasn't a "perfect sinless" being..
Hebrews 5:7
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Biblically speaking he was born as imperfect as the rest of us, but was - because of his suffering, (lol, tame in comparison to some suffering that exists), managed to make his way to high priest, so sayeth god, (which isn't him, clearly).
I see both as attemptin and, in part, succeeding in avoiding reality.
Didn't Jesus say " who do men say that I am ", a rgetorical question. His disciples knew what answer he wanted to hear.
Apologies, that certainly wasn't the intended implication. Without getting right down to genetics, which is ill advised with most theists, it can be shown that selfishness can lead to harmony, cooperation and what we see as 'morality'.
1) Organisms are inherently selfish.
2) Selfishness in itself does lead to harmony, cooperation and 'morality'
For instance the shark does not eat the fish that swims into its mouth because it ultimately cares about the fish, but that the fish removes the stuck bits of meat from between its teeth. The fish doesn't care about the shark, it merely wants the food that is stuck therein.
From a distance it can loook quite magnificent and can easily be confused that these organisms have each others feelings in mind. Indeed many theists do make similar mistakes with regards mainly to humans.
Selfishness is inherent and is seen in every action. When this is stated some people typically come up with the "why did the man jump into the river to save the stranger?", indeed ggazoo said that very thing back on post 249, but then showed the case for selfishness in the very same sentence:
"If we see a total stranger fall in the river we jump in after him, or feel guilty for not doing so"
We should all know the serious detriment guilt can play in our lives, and those that jump in the river, (I probably wouldn't unless it was a child), clearly recognise that the guilt would overtake their life.
People claim it altruistic, (showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others), but that is not the case. It is selfish, it just doesn't look that way until you give it some thought.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
According to traditional Christian doctrine, Mary never sinned. Hence the need for immaculate conception.
Roman Catholic Dogma.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Because even though the law may be written in our hearts we still may choose to do the wrong thing and thus we need a reference point.
That is how the courts work now.
Do you think it is wrong to kill a stranger?
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Here's a better one:
Luke 18:19
19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
I don't think Jesus thought of himself as being perfect, during his ministry.
Have you got the exact chapter and verse number for what you wrote?
Same thing. They have about 1500 years on you. Makes them more 'traditional.'
I agree that the golden rule is, as it were, written on your heart. By evolution. Given that our altruistic inclinations are shared by billions of organisms (human and otherwise) who don't have a clue what Jesus is.
Courts don't care whether you knew the law or not.
I try to avoid the words "right" and "wrong," so that my conversations don't devolve into arguments on morality. I'm not comfortable with the idea of killing people, strangers or otherwise.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Same thing. They have about 1500 years on you. Makes them more 'traditional.'
In this case around 200 years on me.
It's funny how it took them so long to make it a dogma, it was optional for a long time, maybe they had more sense then.
True, the doctrine of the assumption has only recently become official, but it's been presumed for a much longer time.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member