Evidence that God is real

sideshowbob said:
No. We can't forget about figuring out who. If we can't figure out who and how, we can not just assume tthat there is an absolute.
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I agree, we can’t forget about the who and how, but it does not matter or affect the actually event. It happened, there is a concrete truth as to who and why. Who opened the pop? You, the witness, or did it spontaneous open, or was it aliens? The truth is ( in our analogy ) you did. That’s it. That’s the absolute truth.

That's your belief.
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No it’s reality.
 
BlueSky said:
You sound like an intelligent person, are you denying that something or someone typed your message ?
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I'm denying that it has anything to do with absolute truth.

The topic is "Evidence that God is real" and I've been talking about evidence. Whether or not I am real has nothing to do with whether or not God is real. That's why your absolute truth argument doesn't work.
 
billvon said:
"Evidence for The existiance of God."
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I am trying to get there. There is no point if we can’t agree that absolute truth exists.

Let’s hypothetically say there are two paradigms that are up for top consideration of the absolute truth behind the creation of the the universe and earth.

Theism and athestic evolution.

Both are very different paradigms.

I would say diametrically opposing truth claims. They obviously both cannot be truth at the same time, as they say different mechanisms and different essences.

Evolutionists are saying that life absolutely was absolutely created this way.
Creationists are saying that life absolutely was created this way.

Both are making an absolute truth claim.

Can we agree on this?
 
sideshowbob said:
I'm denying that it has anything to do with absolute truth.

The topic is "Evidence that God is real" and I've been talking about evidence. Whether or not I am real has nothing to do with whether or not God is real. That's why your absolute truth argument doesn't work.
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Yes, I am aware of the topic. We will get to the evidence on enough.

The point I am trying to make is that whatever the truth is for the creation of the universe and earth is the truth for us all.

Whether it be evolution or special creation, aliens or something else, we cannot bend the truth to our opinion just because we think something is true.

The creation of the world happened long before us, whatever happened, happened.
 
BlueSky said:
Interpretion can be manipulated, agree, but this does not detract from absolute truth.
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The question SSB raised was: how would you know?

In other words: absolute truth is a philosophical issue, not an evidence-based issue.

This thread is not entitled: 'philosophical arguments that God is real'. We have lots of those.
 
DaveC426913 said:
The question SSB raised was: how would you know?

In other words: absolute truth is a philosophical issue, not an evidence-based issue.

This thread is not entitled: 'philosophical arguments that God is real'. We have lots of those.
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Sure it’s an evidenced based issue. Could we not find out with absolutely certainty who built a GMC vehicle ?

Could we not trace serial numbers and real data to find out where exactly ( absolutely ) that car was built? Sure we could. I agree, finding somethings out are hard and even tricky, but the truth is still there regardless of whether we can find it.
 
So full circle, we may not be able to absolutely, definitively prove that God is there, but just because we can’t, does not mean He’s not there. The totality of the evidence can sway one, one direction or the other, we would have to make a call based on what we can find out.

The the fact is tho, whatever created ( or whatever is responsible ) for the creation of the universe is the truth for us all, Evoltuion, creation, aliens or something else.

Agree?
 
BlueSky said:
Could we not trace serial numbers and real data to find out where exactly ( absolutely ) that car was built? Sure we could.
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We can only determine where a vehicle is built with a certain - mundane - degree of confidence.

The question of whether God exists or not is not so in consequential as where some piece of equipment is.

Again: brain in a vat. Or, if you're part of the younger generation: how do you know you're not in The Matrix?
 
For those who deny absolute truth, you say that god absolutely does not exist, which is an absolute truth claim. o_O
 
BlueSky said:
So full circle, we may not be able to absolutely, definitively prove that God is there, but just because we can’t, does not mean He’s not there. The totality of the evidence can sway one, one direction or the other, we would have to make a call based on what we can find out.
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Exactly.

BlueSky said:
The the fact is tho, whatever created ( or whatever is responsible ) for the creation of the universe is the truth for us all, Evoltuion, creation, aliens or something else.

Agree?
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This is a philosophical question, not a science-based question.
 
BlueSky said:
For those who deny absolute truth, you say that god absolutely does not exist, which is an absolute truth claim. o_O
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No one here (except maybe Alex) claims that God does not exist.

Everyone here only asks for some shred of evidence that he does.
 
DaveC426913 said:
We can only determine where a vehicle is built with a certain - mundane - degree of confidence.
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Really? Ok let pretend you build your wife an end table in your work shop, can it be assertsin with a high degree ( absolute ) of certainty that you built it in your workshop. I think so.

The question of whether God exists or not is not so in consequential as where some piece of equipment is.
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Agree

Again: brain in a vat. Or, if you're part of the younger generation: how do you know you're not in The Matrix?
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Lol.
 
BlueSky said:
Really? Ok let pretend you build your wife an end table in your work shop, can it be assertsin with a high degree ( absolute ) of certainty that you built it in your workshop. I think so.
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Nope. Only I know that. That's not absolute.

Or rather: Only I think that.

After all, I was brainwashed. Someone implanted false memories.
 
BlueSky said:
Theism and athestic evolution.

Both are very different paradigms.

I would say diametrically opposing truth claims. They obviously both cannot be truth at the same time, as they say different mechanisms and different essences.
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I would disagree there. Many people believe both creationism and evolution. They say things like "well, I believe in small scale evolution, of course. But not monkeys that evolve into people." Others believe that God created the Earth and "watched over" the creation of life but didn't get directly involved. Others believe that the theory of evolution is 100% correct, but abiogenesis (which evolution does not describe) was done by God. Others believe in intelligent design, which has its own wide range of interpretations.

If you said "young Earth creationism" vs "RNA-world abiogenesis" and "evolution" - then those might be close to being diametrically opposed. But there are few young Earth creationists, so it's not that inclusive of an approach.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Nope. Only I know that. That's not absolute.

Besides, I was brainwashed. Someone implanted false memories.
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So are you saying that there is not an absolute truth behind the exitance of the newly made night table ?

Clearly there is, but only you and your wife know the truth.

If someone implanted false memories that say the neighbour built the table, (but this is actually not the truth, ) as you built it, your memories are false, the truth still remains you built it.
 
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