Evidence that God is real

DaveC426913 said:
It doesn't matter. We can only see what we can see.
Brain-in-a-Vat is a philosophical thought experiment designed specifically to highlight the pitfalls of the concept of absolute truth.
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Sure it matters. Either you did or someone else ( say a bot ) There is an absolute truth to the origin of your message. I suspect you typed it, but only you would know. I know for sure that I typed mine. Absolutely.
 
sideshowbob said:
If you have no way of telling the absolute from the non-absolute, how can you be so sure that the absolute exists?
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Of course we have ways of telling Absolute from non. Who typed your message? Who made your computer? Each part on your computer can be traced right to the manufacture, absolutely. We know the absolute truth as to where your computer was built.

Would you deny this?
 
Go grab a can of pop and open it infrom of you with a witness.

Now, who opened the bottle of pop? You or someone else? Did it open itself? Did the witness open it? Did an alien open it? There is an absolute truth to how your pop got open.

Now a third person comes into the room and try’s to discover who opened it. You and the witness know the absolute truth. The third does not. Could they found out who opened it with any degree of certainty ? Sure.

Even if they guessed wrong, the absolute truth still is there, it does not care about anyones opinion.

The truth just is. And it’s absolute.
 
BlueSky said:
Now a third person comes into the room and try’s to discover who opened it. You and the witness know the absolute truth. The third does not. Could they found out who opened it with any degree of certainty ? Sure.
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Now you're talking about "any degree of certainty" instead of absolute truth. Do you understand the difference?
Even if they guessed wrong, the absolute truth still is there, it does not care about anyones opinion.
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How can you know that the absolute truth "is there"?

You're very certain that God exists. The Hindu is equally certain that all of his gods exist. You can be very certain that unicorns exist. But your degree of certainty has nothing to do with whether or not something does exist.
 
sideshowbob said:
What are they? Be specific.

None of that will help you determine "absolutely" who typed the message.
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Well to determine who types your message, if all were willing we could investigate it and see. I would by asking you, did you type that message.

Yes or no would suffice.
 
BlueSky said:
Well to determine who types your message, if all were willing we could investigate it and see. I would by asking you, did you type that message.

Yes or no would suffice.
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What if all were not willing? What if I lied about typing the message? What if the students in a psychology class each typed one word?

As long as you can not determine absolutely whether or not I typed the message, what does any of that have to do with absolute truth?

(I know you're using a standard argument - I've heard it a hundred times before and it just doesn't work.)
 
sideshowbob said:
Now you're talking about "any degree of certainty" instead of absolute truth. Do you understand the difference?
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Do you understand the difference ? We are talking about two different things here. One, can we tell with any degree of certainty who did x, the second issue, who actually did it? Actually. Forget figuring out who, just try and see that the truth is absolutely there.

How can you know that the absolute truth "is there"?
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Because we see your words. They got here somehow. No? Did they type themselves?

You're very certain that God exists. The Hindu is equally certain that all of his gods exist. You can be very certain that unicorns exist. But your degree of certainty has nothing to do with whether or not something does exist.
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Agree. At some point as with anything, we make a judgement called based on all evidence, and make the call. We could be wrong. Dectectives do this every day. They try and pull all kinds of evidence together and make a picture of the truth, they also could be wrong.

But the truth is, there is an absolute truth behind who committed the crime. Trying to figure out this absolute truth is their job. Yes?
 
sideshowbob said:
What if all were not willing? What if I lied about typing the message? What if the students in a psychology class each typed one word?
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Exactly. It could be hard to figure out. But the truth is still there.

As long as you can not determine absolutely whether or not I typed the message, what does any of that have to do with absolute truth?
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Everything! Just because you cannot know the true truth as to who types the message, does not take away from the absolute truth that someone or something typed it. No?

(I know you're using a standard argument - I've heard it a hundred times before and it just doesn't work.)
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Of course it works because it’s reality.

You sound like an intelligent person, are you denying that something or someone typed your message ?
 
BlueSky said:
Forget figuring out who, just try and see that the truth is absolutely there.
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No. We can't forget about figuring out who. If we can't figure out who and how, we can not just assume tthat there is an absolute.
But the truth is, there is an absolutetruth behind who committed the crime.
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That's your belief.
 
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