Evidence that God is real

[BlueSky]

Like I said, the ones that people attribute to Him, like, "Maybe He could just forgive us but apparently He won't."

Well, he can and will forgive, if we are willing. What are these silly rules you speak of?

Sure, but as long as I'm not roasting in Hell, I can possibly do something to repair the damage. Hell would be counter-productive.

Sometimes mistakes can’t be undone. If you chop your leg off via a mistake, you have to live with one leg. There is no going back. He’s giving us the chance now to own up and repent of our mistakes, once we die it’s too late. This makes sense if you think about it. If you say sorry only because you got caught were you really sorry ?

And what if it isn't true? What if the Qur'an is true? Or the Bagavad Gita? Or the Book of Mormon?

If it isn’t true, then it’s a delusion. Great questions BTW ..... The law of non-contraction rules out diametrically opposing views as true truth. They all can’t be simutaniouly true truth as they assert different truths... They all can be wrong, but not all truth. With a little research and logic, Christianity stands clearly apart from other worldviews.

As a once ardent Christian, I was once there, I was dead wrong. I thought I knew stuff, but turned out I did not.

Tou·ché! What changed your mind [ specifically ] ?

Are you talking about justice or vengeance?

In this example, justice.

Yes.

Abiogenesis takes far more faith than my paradigm.

 

[DaveC426913]

We have no idea “how” he does this,

So, it's also possible that he is not doing anything at all.

it does not really matter the how.

It kind of does, here, on a Science Forum.

The bible tells us that he does.

This is a thread about evidence. The Bible is poor evidence.

 

[DaveC426913]

Abiogenesis takes far more faith than my paradigm.

Abiogenesis takes no faith. The universe started without life. We are here. QED.

 

[Michael 345]

That’s like asking a 2 year old to explain how Mom and Dad own, run, fix and maintain a home, it’s beyound the childs ability to even grasp it. I suspect it’s the same with us.

Arrrr the ol' god moves in mysterious ways ploy

This paradigm takes real faith imo....

Really? And when it is replicated in the lab?

best served to make sure we have given significant time and research to whether God is actually there

I replied

Give us atheist a starting point and we will investigate the brown stuff out of it
Care to provide that starting point?

and I get

Well, sure, I could give you a starting point.

What is Truth?

which is in no way a starting point

TRUTH is a abstract concept

Something grounded in reality please

 

[BlueSky]

So, it's also possible that he is not doing anything at all.

Sure, I can meet you there. He might have built it to be a self running Machine tho, that’s cool. But he is definitely involved with men and their hearts. But he does say in the bible that he knows even when a sparrow dies, and that how much more important you are to him than a sparrow. That’s awesome.

It kind of does, here, on a Science Forum.

I hear you and concur. We are curious creatures, we just have to know everything. I do. Eve did. Lol.

Someone tells me something, I want to know exactly how it works before I belevie it. It’s funny and yet cool. It’s how I approached this whole topic. I always wanted to know, could we know if he is really there?

Was there a “God”? I asked one night to the stars, when I was 17, I still remember the night. Bright moon. Nothing for 9 years then whamo. I have humbly learned that I can’t come to grips with Gods full measure and essence. It’s impossible to understand on a detailed level. I don’t need to go that deep tho...heck, I don’t really get why my micro-wave works, but I know it does. There’s lots of clues in scripture. Neat study.

This is a thread about evidence. The Bible is poor evidence.

Evidence that God is Real...ok I might have few neat “evidences”

Terms of referene first.

What do you consider evidence ?

 

[Michael 345]

The law of non-contraction rules out diametrically opposing views as true truth. They all can’t be simutaniouly true truth as they assert different truths

Holy crap we now have true truth

Do we have fake fakes?

Thought exercise. You are standing facing another person, who is facing you, about 2 metres apart. Another person runs between you. When both of you are questioned about it later one of you says he run from right to left the other one says he run from left to right

Sooooo

• are they both telling the truth?
• one telling truth the other lying?
• both lying?

 

[billvon]

We have no idea “how” he does this, it does not really matter the how. The bible tells us that he does. How could we even comprehend such a feat? That’s like asking a 2 year old to explain how Mom and Dad own, run, fix and maintain a home, it’s beyound the childs ability to even grasp it. I suspect it’s the same with us.

I have no problem with that approach. However, often religious types say "well, we can't comprehend it. But we are 100% sure that God wants us to pray to the Lord Jesus Christ, and that no one comes to the Father other than through him." Those are some very specific instructions for people to follow, especially on a topic that not even believers can comprehend.

Also, then you say things like this:

LOL, the biggest fairy tale of all is that life of immeasurable complexity, self-generated from non-living materials and self organized into what we see today.

It is strange that something we have no evidence for (God) should dictate our life according to religious types - and if we deny it, well, we're going to hell (or, at least, not to the good place.) You've even admitted that it's not really comprehensible.

But something that we DO have evidence for (evolution, possibilities for abiogenesis) is "a fairy tale." That's a logical disconnect.

 

[BlueSky]

Abiogenesis takes no faith. The universe started without life. We are here. QED.

I agree, so does the Bible. Cool.

Arrrr the ol' god moves in mysterious ways ploy

Also correct, you’re also in agreement with the Bible. Man you guys are awesome.

Really? And when it is replicated in the lab?

Ahh, get your own dirt.

which is in no way a starting point

You don’t think starting with the concept of truth is a good way to find the truth? Yikes.

TRUTH is a abstract concept

Lol, no it’s not. It’s absolute and subjective at the core.

Something grounded in reality please

Yes please, that would be super.

 

[Michael 345]

What do you consider evidence ?

Oh I know the answer to this one sir

Evidence

Something which can be perceived and measured
Something which can be observed directly (not worm fuzzy feeling stuff) and the observations can be repeatable
If not observed directly we can detect via I and equipment

 

[Michael 345]

Lol, no it’s not. It’s absolute and subjective at the core.

So now you are going for stuff which is subjective being absolute???

Great I will go to my bank account and inform the staff the it it my subjective belief I have 10 million dollars in the account so please give me 1 million in absolute money

 

[BlueSky]

Holy crap we now have true truth

Do we have fake fakes?

LOL brillent. I am still laughing.

Thought exercise. You are standing facing another person, who is facing you, about 2 metres apart. Another person runs between you. When both of you are questioned about it later one of you says he run from right to left the other one says he run from left to right

Sooooo

• are they both telling the truth?
• one telling truth the other lying?
• both lying?

Excellent question.

1. Are they both telling the truth ? Possibly. In their own minds. In times of excitement, people miss-see things. Many factors involved , both could beleive they saw what happened. Happens all the time in my work.
2. One telling the truth the other lying? Also possible. If a motive was at play, look at further evidence.
3. Also posssible. Again, motive?

The real question is, what’s the truth ? Which way did the runner actually go independant of opinion? There is only one truth behind the event. Opinions float on this foundation.

Some folks are right, some are not.

Can we agree that whatever the true truth is for the creation of the universe it’s the truth for us all? Can we meet there?

 

[BlueSky]

So now you are going for stuff which is subjective being absolute???
Great I will go to my bank account and inform the staff the it it my subjective belief I have 10 million dollars in the account so please give me 1 million in absolute money

How so?
Try and relax and let’s have a mature conversation. Sound good?

 

[Michael 345]

LOL brillent. I am still laughing.

But not answering

One PING

Excellent question.

I only ask excellent questions

Seems like you go tactical by

1. Are they both telling the truth ? Possibly. In their own minds. In times of excitement, people miss-see things. Many factors involved , both could beleive they saw what happened. Happens all the time in my work.
2. One telling the truth the other lying? Also possible. If a motive was at play, look at further evidence.
3. Also posssible. Again, motive?

The real question is, what’s the truth ? Which way did the runner actually go independant of opinion? There is only one truth behind the event. Opinions float on this foundation.

Some folks are right, some are not.

not answering a simple three choice question and adding totally irrelevant stuff

Two PING

Can we agree that whatever the true truth is for the creation of the universe it’s the truth for us all? Can we meet there?

No

Three PING

How so?
Try and relax and let’s have a mature conversation. Sound good?

This so

Lol, no it’s not. It’s absolute and subjective at the core.

Anyway you appear to be a carbon copy of Jan and since you play the same game as Jan and you have reached my three PING limit

Bye

Engage Iggy <CLICK>

 

[BlueSky]

There’s no way I can even present the evidence if we can’t agree on a definition of truth. I like this one the best

But not answering

One PING


I only ask excellent questions

Seems like you go tactical by



not answering a simple three choice question and adding totally irrelevant stuff

Two PING



No

Three PING



This so



Anyway you appear to be a carbon copy of Jan and since you play the same game as Jan and you have reached my three PING limit

Bye

Engage Iggy <CLICK>

I was going to say the very same thing. Fancy that.

Good day sir.

Ps I was looking forward to your potential argument tho...,ok bye

 

[BlueSky]

Ok, carrying on.

Evidence for The existiance of God. I will post my top 10 or so with reasons why. Take it or leave it, matters not, to each their own. Here’s why I believe...

 

[DaveC426913]

There’s no way I can even present the evidence if we can’t agree on a definition of truth.

Well that's certainly true.
If you present evidence that isn't true, then you certainly have not made the case for your argument.

 

[DaveC426913]

Take it or leave it, matters not, to each their own. Here’s why I believe...

A meaningful answer here most emphatically does not not contain the words 'why' or 'you' or 'believe''.
Please don't. It is off-topic.

 

[sideshowbob]

Well, the thing is, heaven and hell are baked into the cake ( reality ).

But why? If God is all-powerful, why couldn't He have created a more sensible system?

There are only 2 destinations.

But why?

No one will want to be there, once reality sets in.

So why wouldn't God give them a chance to repent after they had experienced the consequences?

 

[sideshowbob]

Well, he can and will forgive, if we are willing. What are these silly rules you speak of?

That one. Why do we have to be willing? Forgiveness is one-sided.

Sometimes mistakes can’t be undone.

Haven't you heard that God is omnipotent? Why can't He replace your leg?

He’s giving us the chance now to own up and repent of our mistakes, once we die it’s too late.

Why? That seems like a completely arbitrary rule.

This makes sense if you think about it. If you say sorry only because you got caught were you really sorry ?

I have thought about it and it makes no sense. What difference does it make if we're really, really, really, really sorry? Especially if we're roasting in Hell? It would make a lot more sense to let us be fake-sorry and see the real consequences; then at least we'd have a chance to learn something.

The law of non-contraction rules out diametrically opposing views as true truth.

Y'know, I've never heard anybody but True Believers talk about the "law of non-contradiction". The problem with that idea is that truth is seldom black and white enough to make that "law" useful.

With a little research and logic, Christianity stands clearly apart from other worldviews.

It really doesn't.

What changed your mind [ specifically ] ?

Mostly bad arguments like yours.

Are you talking about justice or vengeance?

In this example, justice.

Then your definition of "justice" seems to be about the same as my definition of vengeance.

Abiogenesis takes far more faith than my paradigm.

Only if you don't know anything about it.

Your paradigm requires a God that you don't understand and can not be detected. Abiogenesis only requires chemicals that we do understand and can manipulate predictably.

 

[sideshowbob]

The real question is, what’s the truth ?

The real question is, what is the evidence?

In the example, the evidence is that somebody ran past both observers. There is no "truth" about the direction.