Errors in the Bible ?

birch said:
and ironicly, so does religion. it's just done on the side of using cunning or deceptive ruse but everything else and it's processes are in accordance with nature.
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Ummmm

Religion cannot help BUT LIVE in the real world

because the fake fairy tale world they preach about does not exist

However living in the real world because you have no choice in the matter and being subject to the laws of physics in the real world

does NOT mean religious pronouncements about a fake fairy tale make that fairy tale world REAL

Produce a few inhabitants or the boss and

religion can truely enter the REAL REAL world of science

Continue (in your brain) to inhabit a fantasy and please don't be surprised or upset if people question your sanity

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
Ummmm

Religion cannot help BUT LIVE in the real world

because the fake fairy tale world they preach about does not exist

However living in the real world because you have no choice in the matter and being subject to the laws of physics in the real world

does NOT mean religious pronouncements about a fake fairy tale make that fairy tale world REAL

Produce a few inhabitants or the boss and

religion can truely enter the REAL REAL world of science

Continue (in your brain) to inhabit a fantasy and please don't be surprised or upset if people question your sanity

:)
Click to expand...

I like to get to the heart of the matter. what is your real issue with religion, really? do you even know?

what fantasy am i inhabiting? i think i'm more realistic than you. i bet you don't even know what bothers you about religion so much. the better question is to ask yourself what improvements do you think society will have if religion were eradicated altogether.

a fake fairy tale world, as you say cannot be made by religious pronouncements, then what is your issue, problem or afraid of? or can it? that's why you are uneasy because in nature (the real world and bottomline) deception and lies also work, doesn't it? now, here's a thought: ask yourself who shoulders more the blame for that, religion or nature? i don't think you'll like the answer because you would have to blame the shitty universe and it's so-called perfect laws of reason and logic and truth that allows such and even be used for cause and effect just as any form of lies and deception whether in politics, interpersonal relations etc. just the fact people can lie and deceive is the crux of it.

also, do you think people will automatically become better people and a better society just because they don't believe in a religion? do you think north korea is a good atheistic society? did not having religion make society better? is it sane? they just elevated a man to god like status like any despotic system. if that wouldn't work, people would do it another way or use another justification. how about nazi germany? were they good christians? lol. hmm..doesn't seem religion is the real problem thar, does it? how about human nature?

once you stop pretending nature is some pure, sweet, ethical and ideal system, then you can figure it out. besides, people believing in the virgin birth, noah's ark etc and those fairy tales are kind of inconsequential these days and doesn't stop science and has little to no impact on people like you, unless you choose to be bothered by it.
 
birch said:
but indeed, one does not have to earn it. one can succeed by not playing by idealistic rules. and if god is the creator, then those results must be justified, right? the thing is con-artists know this.

i've come to a point to realize religion is not the only thing that is dangerous, the problem is nature itself and it always was. the only good thing or 'improvement' by eradicating god and religion is it's just another veil or ruse people can use to obfuscate the game and make it more deceptive.

at least in the animal kingdom, no one is deluded about an enemy just because it's cloaked in camouflage. a snake is a snake. religion is a camouflage to many and people should be keen to realize that. yes, there are good religious people who are sincere and trying to be good people but the problem lies in entitlement of reputation and that's how the camouflage works best. the pretense and assumption. it tends to arrest people's defenses or it's expected people should. someone claiming they are religious should not be given much weight anymore than they are a member of a lodge or country club. they have a right to and it shouldn't be oppressed but they also shouldn't be put on a righteous pedestal either based on an assumption of good ethics. it should just be viewed as a personal inclination, not a representation of their moral character because it's all individual.
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Undoubtedly some truth in this but, I would say, true of all human institutions and by no means anything specific to religion. Your point about entitlement and hiding base motives is one of the things that scandalised Martin Luther when he visited Rome and led to the Reformation. Hypocrisy is a scourge, no doubt of it. I would maintain, though, that the core aim of most religions is noble: to provide a guide for living one's life, in a disciplined way that is thoughtful towards others. The fact that almost none of us can do it reliably is a fact of human nature.
 
birch said:
I like to get to the heart of the matter. what is your real issue with religion, really? do you even know?

what fantasy am i inhabiting? i think i'm more realistic than you. i bet you don't even know what bothers you about religion so much. the better question is to ask yourself what improvements do you think society will have if religion were eradicated altogether.

a fake fairy tale world, as you say cannot be made by religious pronouncements, then what is your issue, problem or afraid of? or can it? that's why you are uneasy because in nature (the real world and bottomline) deception and lies also work, doesn't it? now, here's a thought: ask yourself who shoulders more the blame for that, religion or nature? i don't think you'll like the answer because you would have to blame the shitty universe and it's so-called perfect laws of reason and logic and truth that allows such and even be used for cause and effect just as any form of lies and deception whether in politics, interpersonal relations etc. just the fact people can lie and deceive is the crux of it.

also, do you think people will automatically become better people and a better society just because they don't believe in a religion? do you think north korea is a good atheistic society? did not having religion make society better? is it sane? they just elevated a man to god like status like any despotic system. if that wouldn't work, people would do it another way or use another justification. how about nazi germany? were they good christians? lol. hmm..doesn't seem religion is the real problem thar, does it? how about human nature?

once you stop pretending nature is some pure, sweet, ethical and ideal system, then you can figure it out. besides, people believing in the virgin birth, noah's ark etc and those fairy tales are kind of inconsequential these days and doesn't stop science and has little to no impact on people like you, unless you choose to be bothered by it.
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Oh dear I have set off a rant

Briefly my real real issue with religion is

ITS A CON

Not only is it a con

it's a destructive con

Do I think the world would be better off without religion?

YES yes yes a gazillion times yes

Nature follows the laws of physics

Neither of those have any human characteristics

As such I do not assign to them any human attributes

Will the human race still be flawed and imperfect?

YES

But at least it won't have religion egging on the imperfections

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
Ummmm

Religion cannot help BUT LIVE in the real world

because the fake fairy tale world they preach about does not exist

However living in the real world because you have no choice in the matter and being subject to the laws of physics in the real world

does NOT mean religious pronouncements about a fake fairy tale make that fairy tale world REAL

Produce a few inhabitants or the boss and

religion can truely enter the REAL REAL world of science

Continue (in your brain) to inhabit a fantasy and please don't be surprised or upset if people question your sanity

:)
Click to expand...
Do you believe your world is more real then mine? I believe in God and the teaching of Jesus , I believe in science same as you but some more skeptical in some scientific theory which you believe .
 
timojin said:
Do you believe your world is more real then mine?
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Your real world is exactly the same as mine

timojin said:
I believe in science same as you but some more skeptical in some scientific theory which you believe .
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Your thoughts about Science theories and being skeptical are in line with most people's thoughts

Although you might be skeptical about different theories

Doing OK so far

timojin said:
I believe in God and the teaching of Jesus
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Now we part ways

Feel free to have your beliefs

Understand I am not condersending or granting you some sort of right to you that you can have any sort of beliefs

Mearly I really don't have any views on your beliefs
  • As long as they do not affect me and by extension people I care about
  • As long as you keep your beliefs in your brain and understand we live in a secular society
Go in peace

Live long and prosper

Etc etc etc

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
Oh dear I have set off a rant

Briefly my real real issue with religion is

ITS A CON

Not only is it a con

it's a destructive con

Do I think the world would be better off without religion?

YES yes yes a gazillion times yes

Nature follows the laws of physics

Neither of those have any human characteristics

As such I do not assign to them any human attributes

Will the human race still be flawed and imperfect?

YES

But at least it won't have religion egging on the imperfections

:)
Click to expand...

my rant was the truth. you just ignored the examples i gave. i'm sure the roman empire was just rosy too with the colosseum and all. interesting all manner of destruction and evil existed still. btw, remember how they persecuted the christians because they were the ones who were saying it was not right to abuse people? now, those same persecutors are also the christains of today because they joined the fold and eradicated much of the heinous. you know why? because evil does not discriminate and it could be their head on the chopping block one day also. so they woke up to an improved system. whether it was done to just save themselves or for some that were more spiritually developed and understanding true empathy/message, it was a start. if it were not for the start of religion, there would have been no progress on the humanitarian front. religion was a primitive start of humans questioning itself also as well as the human condition. of course, just as with most things, it has imperfections, falsehoods, even contradictions which need to be addressed and should be taken to task. those who are of the same nature just use the negative in the books to justify the atrocious just as the good ones are against such. the proverbial pharisees vs the true christians etc.

you don't understand how complicated it is. it is not just religion as a vehicle, that is just one aspect. it's nature. eradicating all religion just starts at base zero and that is base nature which is going to even have worse consequences and regressive. it is about improving and modifying the works and ethical teachings as people evolve, not rendering it completely meaningless and useless. you are too focused on the base physical. lifeforms are more than the physical but a continual process of evolution of the mind, emotions, ethics/spirituality and awareness of not only ourselves but others which has to start somewhere. you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

also, when it comes to nature which you mistakenly too blindly rely upon like an unquestioned faith, lies and deceit do work and have impact. that's your esteemed nature/universal laws at work, btw and if it didn't have impact or power to affect, you wouldn't be here to discuss and argue against it. that's regardless of religion, that's the negative aspect of nature at work also. that is why you have people in even politics subforum in heated debates. the truth is there but doesn't mean it can't be sidelined or thrown asunder either. it takes vigilance,
 
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Russ_Watters said:
the people who wrote it have their names listed as the titles of the chapters they wrote! (duh!).
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Really ! A quick flick through the Bible will reveal that none of the 'chapters' have titles. I think you mean 'books'. In addition, I think you will agree that 'Genesis' is not the name of the person(s) who wrote the book. I suspect you are thinking of the four Gospels, headed Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Most Biblical Scholars agree that these names were added by later scribes who copied the copies of the copies of the copies.... of the lost originals. Our oldest fragments of these books do not have any titles.
 
exchemist said:
Undoubtedly some truth in this but, I would say, true of all human institutions and by no means anything specific to religion. Your point about entitlement and hiding base motives is one of the things that scandalised Martin Luther when he visited Rome and led to the Reformation. Hypocrisy is a scourge, no doubt of it. I would maintain, though, that the core aim of most religions is noble: to provide a guide for living one's life, in a disciplined way that is thoughtful towards others. The fact that almost none of us can do it reliably is a fact of human nature.
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^^^
Noble lies?

<>
 
It is interesting that biblical authors were incredibly ignorant of the nature of their world.

The Magi are described as traveling toward a star & arriving at the manger where Jesus was born.

Traveling toward a star can only lead to the the North Pole or the south Pole. The apparent position of other stars is affected by the rotation of the Earth.
 
Dinosaur said:
It is interesting that biblical authors were incredibly ignorant of the nature of their world.

The Magi are described as traveling toward a star & arriving at the manger where Jesus was born.

Traveling toward a star can only lead to the the North Pole or the south Pole. The apparent position of other stars is affected by the rotation of the Earth.
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It's pretty much understood that they followed the star in the evening sky, when they would normally be travelling.
 
From DaveC426913 Post 55
It's pretty much understood that they followed the star in the evening sky, when they would normally be travelling.
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The above was in response to my Post
It is interesting that biblical authors were incredibly ignorant of the nature of their world.

The Magi are described as traveling toward a star & arriving at the manger where Jesus was born.

Traveling toward a star can only lead to the the North Pole or the south Pole. The apparent position of other stars is affected by the rotation of the Earth.
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I wonder what path would result if a person walked toward the apparent position of some star other than Polaris or the Southern Cross.

Does anyone have an idea?
 
From Xelasnave.1947 Post 24
I started a thread asking should the bible be edited and I think and edit would be a good thing to do in order to present something credible.
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The bible is an existing document. Editing would be similar to editing books on Greek (or other mythology)

What would be the purpose if you did not destroy all existent copies of the original documents?
 
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