End of Ice Age

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Hey Fraggle, what a gasser, there is no consensus for the time of the end of the Ice Age. A few decades ago, most scientists said it ended around 12000 B.C., now it's up to about 8000 B.C., and they're being forced to move it up even more, as they try to explain the submerged megaliths which are huge megalithic paving stones, walls, bases of citadels, columns, etc., all what began to be built circa 2500 B.C.

You are seeing scientists who acknowledge the submergies working very hard to move up the date for the end of the Ice Age, and those like fraggle, who "see nothing," feel no need to move up the date, so those two camps' dates are diverging rapidly, schizophrenia over the timing for the end of the Ice Age.

So frag, when do you think the Ice Age ended, and how long do you think it took?

 

[katesisco]

revision of history

We are so lucky to live in this time when a complete revision of our understanding of prehistory is in the works!

The book 1491 was so terriffic; it just blew away this idea of a few initial starts at civilization in the new world. And then of course, there is 1421, Gavin Mendez' book that picks out the overlooked and minimized Chinese world fleet's discoveries.

We have so many historical anomalies that just don't "fit" in with our current understanding of pre history geology. Could there be a problem with radio carbon dating? I understand if the site was water contaminated then the radio carbon date would no longer stand------------is that true?

With the clear indicators of DNA, we now know that the Eve theory of beginning humans can be substantiated. That there is a clear indication of a bottleneck in human history at about 70,000 years ago, possibly at the time of the Toba volcanic explosion that may have sent the world into a nuclear winter.

Sea water rise of 300 feet covers many human colonization sites of which we can determine little. An astounding anomaly from the past salvaged from a wreck has now been determined to be an early 'computer' designed to foretell astronomical and Earthly solar events.

What all these facts are leading to is a total upset of our concept of history. The once maligned, now accepted, soon to be maligned again concept of sea floor spreading and plate tectonics is underway. The problem is that there is no consensus on what to substitute. I find the websitehttp://www.newgeology.us
fascinating. The theory is outrageous but the mechanics are plausible.

Question, question, question.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

The Antikythera Device had 72 bronze gears which replicated the cycles of celestial bodies, even precession, I bet, I've got to find that out.

 

[Prince_James]

TheVisitor:

There is -zero- proof of high civilization - least of all magic and nuclear bombs - in prehistory. Mythology does not equal fact and ontop of that, there is NO surviving traces of this.

Not one.

Nada.

Not a single shread of prehistoric supertechnology.

Unless you can present mountains of evidence beyond New Age conjectures mixed in with Neo-Christian reasoning.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

A vase was discovered in Egypt, little bitty, was cored out somehow.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Most scientists admit the evidence indicates rapid climate change at the end of the Ice Age, but then some will say it ended in several stages over thousands of years, can't have it both ways.

 

[D H]

You, sir, are a loon.

Most scientists admit the average temperature of Greenland is about 15C higher now than during the Younger Dryas. Most scientists admit that the transition from then to now was anything but smooth; that it in fact, occurred in a series of very sharp temperature changes. The "End of the Ice Age" is merely a climatological label placed on the first and biggest temperature change. The jump at the "End of the Ice Age" accounts for slightly less than half of the total temperature change since the Younger Dryas.

No scientist thinks that the Ice Age ended with all of the ice sheets melting in a few decades. After all, the Pleistocene ice sheet still persists on Greenland.

The Antikythera Device had 72 bronze gears which replicated the cycles of celestial bodies, even precession, I bet, I've got to find that out.

Reference please.

A vase was discovered in Egypt, little bitty, was cored out somehow.

And this proves what exactly? Do you have a date, a picture, a reference?

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Warmer ocean water caused the Ice Age (hydrology 101), to cause the dense cloud-cover which caused cooler summers and warmer winters during the Ice Age, and when the oceans had cooled to about today's temps, the Ice Age ended, resulting in warmer summers and colder winters, because the cloud-cover was then greatly dimimished, hydrology 101, and that is when the Middle East, North Africa, and Pakistan began to dry out.

 

[invert_nexus]

The Antikythera Device had 72 bronze gears which replicated the cycles of celestial bodies, even precession, I bet, I've got to find that out.

Reference please.

Well, I don't know about precession, which might be the gist of your request, but the Antikythera device has been in the news recently. Apparently some scientists believe they have cracked the workings of its mechanisms.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061129151439.htm

If you have access to Nature, then you can find a paper relating to this. Unfortunately, I only have Science... I've tried searching Nature to find the exact article, but there seem to be about 4 papers relating to the Antikythera device in the November 30th issue. Likely all four are from the same research. One is a letter which is probably the actual paper while the rest are reviews or some such. Just a guess.


And while I'm here, I'll just nitpick enough to say that there are 80 gears in the Antikythera device. Not 72. Although, it's possible that this number is rounded up or down, I really don't know. But 80 is the number given in the ScienceDaily article.

 

[guthrie]

Ah HA! Egyptian vases!
I was reading about them recently. They did it by using copper coring drills with sand or quartz or suchlike as the abrasive medium. Its a method that has persisted through the millenia, I have translated instructions on smothing holes in rock crystal using copper rods and sand, written by Theophilus in the 12th century.
Read this for more info, Invert I'm sure you'll find this page and the website interesting:
http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=59

 

[D H]

Warmer ocean water caused the Ice Age (hydrology 101) ...

More BS.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Causes_of_ice_ages
"The causes of ice ages remain controversial for both the large-scale ice age periods and the smaller ebb and flow of glacial/interglacial periods within an ice age. The consensus is that several factors are important: atmospheric composition; changes in the Earth's orbit around the Sun known as Milankovitch cycles (and possibly the Sun's orbit around the galaxy); the motion of tectonic plates resulting in changes in the relative location and amount of continental and oceanic crust on the Earth's surface; variations in solar output; the orbital dynamics of the Earth-Moon system; and the impact of relatively large meteorites, and eruptions of supervolcanoes."

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Dense cloud-cover comes only from much evaporation off the oceans, and that only from warmer oceans (obviously), face the facts, D H.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Hey D H, do you have a wild guess what they mean by "atmospheric composition?"

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Since Plato was aware of the Great Year, it's very possible that the Antikythera did measure precession, can't wait to see the full report.

 

[guthrie]

Dense cloud cover also occurs due to changes in temperature and the meeting of cold dry air streams with damp warm air streams. Not to mention sulphur aerosols seeding water droplets.

 

[D H]

Warmer oceans when insolation is drastically reduced? Get real.

From http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci;289/5485/1719
Magnesium/calcium data from planktonic foraminifera in equatorial Pacific sediment cores demonstrate that tropical Pacific sea surface temperatures (SSTs) were 2.8° ± 0.7°C colder than the present at the last glacial maximum.

From http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2005/2004PA001049.shtml
Mg/Ca analyses of G. bulloides and abundances of N. pachyderma (left coiling) from Ocean Drilling Program (ODP) Leg 175 Hole 1084B in the Benguela coastal upwelling system document lower sea surface temperatures during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), Younger Dryas, mid-Holocene, and Little Ice Age in the southeastern Atlantic. Taking into consideration the possible effects of differential carbonate dissolution, the Mg/Ca data indicate Younger Dryas temperatures 2°–3°C cooler than those of the early Holocene and LGM temperatures 4°–5°C cooler than those of the early Holocene.

From http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1996PalOc..11..327S
We present a 15 kyr sea surface temperature (SST) record for a high sedimentation rate core (KNR51-29GGC) from the Feni Drift off of Ireland, based on an organic geochemical technique for paleotemperature estimation, U37kappa'. We compare the U37kappa' temperature record to planktonic foraminiferal delta18O and foraminiferal assemblage SST estimates from the same sample horizons. U37kappa' gives SST estimates of 13°C for the early deglacial and 18°C for the Holocene and Recent, whereas assemblages give estimates of 9°C and 13°C, respectively. As in nearby core V23-81, we find Ash Zone 1, the Younger Dryas increase in Neogloboquadrina pachyderma sinistral abundance, and maximum abundance of this species during glaciation. N. pachyderma dextral oxygen isotopic analyses have a late glacial to interglacial range of 1.50/00. A reduction of about 10/00 in delta18O occurred at about 12 ka, whereas U37kappa' and the foraminiferal fauna indicate a 2°C warming. This implies a 0.90/00 salinity effect on delta18O which we attribute to meltwater freshening. All three parameters indicate cooling during the Younger Dryas.

 

[D H]

Hey D H, do you have a wild guess what they mean by "atmospheric composition?"

Hmm. Just to make a wild guess, how about greenhouse gases like H2O and, to a lesser extent, CO2?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Causes_of_ice_ages
Changes in Earth's atmosphere
The most relevant change is in the quantity of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. There is evidence that greenhouse gas levels fell at the start of ice ages and rose during the retreat of the ice sheets, but it is difficult to establish cause and effect (see the notes above on the role of weathering).

In other words, greenhouse gases (H2O being the most dominant) were reduced during the ice ages.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Ok fellas, let's take this real slow, where does the water come from to form clouds?

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Why were the millions of grazers able to flourish near the coasts of Ice Age Europe, Asia, and North America? Because the oceans were warmer then, kept the coastal regions temperate and green, as the Ice Age icepack built up on the interiors, like I said, hydrology 101.

 

[invert_nexus]

Why does logic supersede scientific data?
Maybe hydrology 101 isn't the proper venue for making authoritative statements about conditions during the ice ages?