@Adstar --
The dictionary's definition. The definition of perfect that's been agreed upon(for centuries mind you) by the majority of speakers. You are, of course, free to use your own personal definition of any word you might choose to, however doing so automatically precludes you from discussing it with others.
Ummm no it doesn't, i am here talking with others now.... So that sinks your statement right away.
Well then you need to go read some philosophy(I recommend Spinoza or Mill). The problem of perfection is one that has been discussed for centuries, probably longer(unfortunately we don't have access to many of the older texts as you religionists burned most of them). Again, this is a problem with you, not with me.
I am not a worshipper of faulty men. You can use other men as your guides if you want. They will lead you down into the pit.
If the ability to become imperfect was a part of creation then the creation was not perfect. QED.
Just a statement. Not an argument.
And he warned us without giving us the ability to follow,
What??? They had a choice. They where not forced by satan to agree with Him. God did not use a mind control device to make them His zombies and satan did not use a mind control device to make them his zombies either.
to choose good over evil would have required us to have knowledge of good and evil.
Read the story again. It was not about choosing good or evil it was about believing God or believing satan, They did not know Good or Evil until they obtained the knowledge of good and evil.
Lacking that knowledge we had no way to discern between the correct choice of following god's command and the incorrect choice of doing the opposite. As I already said, your only two options here are god as an incompetent(seriously, I could have done a better job) and god as evil. Take your pick.
LOL don't put me between a rock and a hard place and think i am going to be a good little slave and stay there. No God knew satan would succeed and allowed it to happen because it was part of His eternal plan to defeat the satanic rebellion and save all existence.
Again, sabotaged by god himself. Doesn't your bible itself say that he's the author of evil? He created it.
No.
But that's beside the point. If god were perfect then it would have been impossible to sabotage his creation unless he willed it to happen, if he isn't then he's incompetent just like we are.
No. He willed it to be possible. And gave them free will ability to make a choice.
Unsubstantiated assumption, demonstrate it to be true or withdraw it as merely being your opinion.
You can believe what you want to believe. But i will state what i believe.
Which orifice are you pulling this shit out of, because it's found nowhere in the bible.
Oh dear... feeling a bit of stress are we? Throw and insult and maybe the theist will go away. LOL
That's omniscient, not omnipotent, the two are different traits and mutually exclusive ones at that. And the god established in the bible is neither. In the bible god couldn't(read that, couldn't not wouldn't) stop the iron chariots of the plainsmen in the book of Judges, and he had to ask Adam and Eve what they were doing when they clothed themselves.
What do parents do when they discover their little chid has scribbled on the wall. They will often ask them "what have you done" or "what did you do". This is basic stuff, to get them to confess to it. To acknowledge their act. The parent already knows what they have done.
Demonstrably not omniscient or omnipotent. Of course, if you want to pull your beliefs out of your ass then be my guest, but don't try to justify it with scripture(which isn't a justification for anything in the first place because it's a justification for everything).
Believe it or don't believe it. But you cannot bring an argument against it, can you.
More unsubstantiated claims. Demonstrate them or GTFO.
LOL... How old are you?
This is merely your assumption, there's no actual evidence of this. Anything which can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without it as well.
This is getting so repetitious. Your boring me with this old sick your head in the sand when you cannot give a counter argument reply.
But why? If he's omnipotent as you say(leaving aside, for the moment, the impossibility of this) then he could bring all of existence back into harmony with but a thought. This means that he's deliberately prolonging our suffering unnecessarily(and, for some of us, eternally), this makes him evil.
What? Your suffering is a mixed thing and it is only for a life time. It's not even a mozzie bite compared with eternity. All of human history is only a flash in the pan compared to eternity. God must demonstrate Why He is the perfect God and why satan is incapable of being God. He must show this to the heavenly host to save them from themselves. Of course 1/3rd of the angels of heaven are lost and will spend eternity in the lake of fire, But God has saved the rest of existence. Yes God could have used His absolute power but then people would be following Him because of His absolute power, not willingly but because they would have no other option. God wants existence to follow him because He is the right One for the job. Willing followers, happy to follow. No zombies in a gulag.
So god is a hypocrite, good to know....wait, doesn't god/Jesus preach against hypocrisy?
Get the message mate We are not Gods Equals. God is not just another human being sitting on a cloud with a lot of Power. He is our Creator He is on a higher plain of existence. We are His creation. He owns us. No God is not a hypocrite He has always had the authority to end life as He deems fit.
I'm not attempting to justify anything, I merely rebutted your argument that abortion is murder. It's definitionally not murder as murder must be both unlawful and the killing of a person. Abortion is demonstrably neither so it is not murder.
You just gave a definition that agreed with your desire to see murderers justified in killing the innocent. Your definitions will not be worth a brass razoo on judgement day.
Like I said, you can say that it's morally equivalent to murder, but not that it is murder itself.
I can say its murder. Here look:
It's Murder of the innocent.
See.
Cancer is also human and genetically unique. It is, in a way, a life in and of itself, albeit living off a human host.
LOL.
But then, a fetus does the same thing. What gives a fetus the right to a chance at life but cancer not?
LOL
Is it the potential to become a human? But every single cell in our bodies(other than adult red blood cells, which have no DNA), cancerous or otherwise, has that same potential(and it's potential that can now be realized thanks to modern technology).
Show me a confirmed scientific paper showing a case of a baby being produced from a cancer cell. Man your starting to truly get weird with your desperate attempts to win.
Well, according to your bible, god order the complete genocide of at least five different peoples.
Well he did order the wiping out of whole peoples. And he was justified in doing so. Because He is God and has perfect judgement.
And do I not have a right to defend myself? If someone comes at me with a knife do I not have the right to kill them in defense of myself? Of course I do.
Well since the day Jesus declared to His followers to love their enemies, No people have not had the right to defend themselves.
This whole "inalienable right to life" thing is absolute, deep fried, bullshit on a stick.
LOL i have no doubt you would change your tune very rapidly if someone was about to throw you into a giant meat grinder.
however you do not have the right to force your beliefs on others or logical justification for your beliefs.
Oh this old chestnut again. Not like i have heard this lie from atheist 10.000 times.
Right now show me where i am forcing anyone to believe anything. If you cannot show that i am forcing anyone to believe anything then apologise for being a out and out Liar.
What you believe and what you care about are irrelevant when it comes to determining what is best for society, and for now abortion is what you would call a necessary evil in that it prevents a monstrous amount of unnecessary suffering.
A what....
"a necessary evil" I did not call it that.. YOU JUST CALLED IT THAT. Even the truth comes out from an atheist when they are struggling to justify evil. How by calling it a necessary evil. LOL
It was a logical rebuttal to your argument that the creator cares more about people than the universe which is illogical given how minuscule a part of the universe we are.
How illogical is your stance here? So by your logic a car weighing two tonnes is more valuable then a human being who is comprised of far less mass... Come now, your so locked into disagreeing with anything a theists says that you will bring forth arguments that are so totally false and illogical that even a moron would shake their head and laugh at you.
Life is far more valuable then inanimate mass. The proportion of life to the universe is totally irrelevant. Life is on a higher plain then inanimate mass. Just as God is on a higher plain then mankind.
That may be your experience, but I would be willing to bet that I could find billions of people who would say otherwise(I would have been one of them in my churchgoing days, in fact my closest friends are from there).
So. We know that the majority opinion does not make the opinion right. This is no argument at all.
Quite arguing your subjective opinions as though they were facts, it's why you can never win a debate.
Oh yes.. Winning that’s what its all about right... defeating someone., That’s what it is all about for you. Pride.
In some yes, in others no. I'm more than willing to wager that I've been to far more churches than you have.
I could not care less.
I've traveled to almost every state in this country(the only one I'm missing is Hawaii) and I've attended church in all of them.
Oh wow i am impressed... NOT.
And you still haven't answered my question. If homosexuality is an abomination to god then why would he create it in the first place and why is it so prevalent in the animal kingdom?
Both homosexuality’s are a result of the obtaining of the knowledge of good and evil. It is sin. And all creation has been corrupted by what adam and eve did. Animals also kill and devour each other but the bible states that after God reconciles the world to him that animals shall no longer kill and eat each other, Nature will be restored back to the good state. It is currently in an imperfect state.
Isaiah 65
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent’s food.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,” Says the LORD.
See,, restored animal world along with restored humanity.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
