Does God have a God?

jpappl said:
"democracy is all about popularity - the fact that no atheistic presidential candidate has made it to the point of sitting the test simply indicates that most people think it's a bad idea. "

No, it's called throw a little of that god stuff in there, they love it.

Would you call Clinton a true believer ? Obama ?

Do you really think they believe or do they just tell you that so they can get past your litmus test.
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If you are not happy with the way the situation is in your country, then you have several avenues you can take: civilian initiative, civilian disobedience, suing the government, demanding new elections, becoming a politician yourself ...

But if you don't take them, if you haven't done everything in your power that is granted to you by the Law and the Constitution,

then you have no justified reason to complain about how things are in your country,

and should shut up.
 
greenberg said:
If you are not happy with the way the situation is in your country, then you have several avenues you can take: civilian initiative, civilian disobedience, suing the government, demanding new elections, becoming a politician yourself ...

But if you don't take them, if you haven't done everything in your power that is granted to you by the Law and the Constitution,

then you have no justified reason to complain about how things are in your country,

and should shut up.
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That is completely unjustified. IF anyone should shut up, it's the 1 telling someone to shut up without justifying it.
 
Green,

"But if you don't take them, if you haven't done everything in your power that is granted to you by the Law and the Constitution,"

Well I would say that I have done what I can. I educate myself to the issues, I am very fair to both sides and am not someone who is influenced by petty nonsense from either side. I vote you could say religiously.

I have always taken the position that we the voters are responsible for the leaders we elect. I don't blame the presidents for what has gone over the years I blame the populace.

"then you have no justified reason to complain about how things are in your country",

"and should shut up."

If you look in the mirror you will see what I am complaining about.
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
That is completely unjustified. IF anyone should shut up, it's the 1 telling someone to shut up without justifying it.
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I justified it:

greenberg said:
If you are not happy with the way the situation is in your country, then you have several avenues you can take: civilian initiative, civilian disobedience, suing the government, demanding new elections, becoming a politician yourself ...

But if you don't take them, if you haven't done everything in your power that is granted to you by the Law and the Constitution,

then you have no justified reason to complain about how things are in your country,

and should shut up.
Click to expand...
 
So to the original example.

Do you belive there should be a religious litmus test for political candidates ? and if so why ?

If you say yes. I have a reason to complain. This is a democracy not a theocracy ! there should be no such test for religion, gender or race of anykind. But it has been that way and I sincerely hope that changes so we can move on.

I would be more inclined to impose an idiot test than any of the above.
 
jpappl said:
This is a democracy not a theocracy ! there should be no such test for religion, gender or race of anykind.
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Why not?
What is written on the Dollar bill?


But it has been that way and I sincerely hope that changes so we can move on.
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So what have you done to (help) bring about this change?
 
Green,

"What is written on the Dollar bill?"

"The next step in the process of religionizing the national currency had to wait nearly a century, when on July 11.1955, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed Public Law 140 making it mandatory that all coinage and paper currency display the motto "In God We Trust." The following year, Public Law 851 was enacted and signed, which officially replaced the national motto "E Pluribus Unum" with "In God We Trust" All of this occurred at the height of cold war tension, when political divisions between the Soviet and western block was simplistically portrayed as a confrontation between Judeo-Christian civilization and the "godless" menace of communism. Indeed, the new national motto was only part of a broader effort to effectively religionize civic ritual and symbols. On June 14, 1954, Congress unanimously ordered the inclusion of the words "Under God" into the nation's Pledge of Allegiance. By this time, other laws mandating public religiosity had also been enacted, including a statute for all federal justices and judges to swear an oath concluding with "So help me God."

All paper currency issued after October 1, 1957 included the IN GOD WE TRUST national motto."

So they used votes or lack of votes to bully the right wing of the republican party to push this through. It's funny how the right wing has shown it's desire to have a theocracy over a democracy and it couldn't be any clearer than replacing "E Pluribus Unum" with "In God we trust". To me that is un American.

Just because some cowards bent over backwards to put "in God we trust" on the dollar bill doesn't mean that we should replace democracy with theocracy so it is a leap that we should have such a litmus test.

Also, to all those who are not christian, they could just claim that is their god being trusted on the dollar bill.

Putting "God" on money is a very funny thing when you consider "the meek shall inherit the earth" Maybe they should put it on shovels and hammers and buckets instead.

"So what have you done to (help) bring about this change?"

I already told you. I vote, and yes sometimes I am out voted, doesn't mean I am wrong. What do you want me to do start breaking knee caps of every person who disagrees with me.

A good example of the ridiculous argument you are making is this.

If you are a christian, but you live in Iraq, so most view you as wrong and you are out numbered by the muslim majority in the place that you live. Does that make you wrong ?

I love this country but I believe we can do better.
 
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11parcal,

We decide to question the universe first before we just instantly accept things,
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Ask first, then instantly accept.

...but I suppose it's too much to say that we think we could be wrong, I'm frankly amused that thiests don't do more questioning
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That's a bit of a generalisation don't you think? :(

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Ask first, then instantly accept.
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We accept based on what evidence we can find against the belief that God exists, besides I'm an Agnostic Atheist if enough proof comes from the other side I'll accept that I was wrong.


Jan Ardena said:
That's a bit of a generalisation don't you think? :(
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Maybe, but think of all the theists in the world, how many of them question their religion? Obviously it's becoming more all the time, and we can see that by the fact that the number of atheists in the world is rising.;)
 
11parcal said:
Maybe, but think of all the theists in the world, how many of them question their religion? Obviously it's becoming more all the time, and we can see that by the fact that the number of atheists in the world is rising.
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Sure. Just like despite all the government and non-government anti-AIDS campaigns, anti-smoking campaigns, health food campaigns, pro-ecology campaigns, and so on and on
many people still have unprotected sex, smoke, eat unhealthy food, and do all sorts of things to pollute the environment, and so on and on,
and the world's situation is getting worse and worse.

Not questioning one's preconceived notions about how things are and should be is not limited to behavior in relation to religion.
 
11parcal,

We accept based on what evidence we can find against the belief that God exists,
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Can you cite any evidence that shows God does not exist?

...besides I'm an Agnostic Atheist if enough proof comes from the other side I'll accept that I was wrong.
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I don't care for these contrived designations, you are atheist because you don't believe in God, period.

Maybe, but think of all the theists in the world, how many of them question their religion?
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I don't know, because I don't know all the theists in the world.
But I'm willing to bet you know, because you are atheist (agno-ath for the sake of argument).
I eagerly await your answer.

jan.
 
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11parcal,

We accept based on what evidence we can find Obviously it's becoming more all the time, and we can see that by the fact that the number of atheists in the world is rising.;)
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Yes.
The world is becoming more hellish as time goes by.
Then that's no surprise to those who read scriptures.

jan.
 
And man said, 'let there be two gods, and there was two.' Then man said, 'let there be more gods, and there were more". Forgotten lines in a dusty parchment or something we think about but are afraid to write down?

If more gods are required then it is very easy to find some. Is there a hierarchy in the God dimension? Oh, why not? Is there any written evidence in text that may indicate God answers to a higher authority?

Not trying to pick on Xians here but somewhere (Exodus I think) God says he doesn't want any other gods before Him. I suppose if I wanted to maintain a monotheist bias then God is merely talking about artificial gods or material things being used as His substitute. If taken literally one can also make the case for there being other gods out there, known to God but it doesn't suggest one god is more authoritative than the other.

Is JC a god? If so then doesn't he have a divine authority to answer to? If JC does answer to God then at least one can see that there is room for different classes of gods.

How about God and Allah, two gods or one? But is there a Zeus? or a ruling panel of gods who designate regions of the universe to their peers?
 
swarm
lightgigantic
not all matter organizes itself
”
Yes, all matter organizes as it loses energy.
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... yet there is something unique about matter that gets organized by consciousness (as anyone who has had a car break down can testify ....)
“
only matter infused with consciousness
”
Consciousness is not a tea.
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... yet even a 6 year old can distinguish between a dead person and a living one.
:rolleyes:
Until matter is at a sufficient level of complexly (i.e. the development of neurons) there is no consciousness.

Consciousness is a function of neural activity.
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... yet no scientist has a clue whether they are even barking up the right tree in trying to manifest this apparent sufficient level of complexity from matter deprived of consicousness
 
jpappl said:
"democracy is all about popularity - the fact that no atheistic presidential candidate has made it to the point of sitting the test simply indicates that most people think it's a bad idea. "

No, it's called throw a little of that god stuff in there, they love it.

Would you call Clinton a true believer ? Obama ?

Do you really think they believe or do they just tell you that so they can get past your litmus test.
Click to expand...
so if its all superficial, what are you complaining about exactly?
:confused:
 
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