Do you guys believe in the chosen people?
- Thread starter Xerxes
- Start date
Cris said:
God does not impose torture. Hell, He's not there! The one's imposing the torture don't want anything to do with Him either.
God imposes His law, and free will. So even if you choose torturous consequences upon yourself according to His law, He still loves you.
If you had a child who against your better judgement and "house rules", flipped you off and left, wanting nothing to do with you...proceeded to make a bunch of self-destructive choices that led them into a life of pain and suffering and ultimately death....would you stop loving them? Of course not.
You want different law. You want good without the possibility of evil....love without the possibility of hate....light without the possibility of dark. What you want is illogical. You don't want a choice, or you want to blame God for ever giving you one in the first place.
Listen, this topic isn't brain surgery ok? If you want to use this whole "conditional love" arguement of yours to rationalize your rejection of God, then go right ahead...no one is stopping you.
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Yorda_7
Guest
Lori_7 said:
Don't lie. No one wants torture instead of paradise. A person is self destructive because he/she is sad and doesn't know how to become happy. God should have given us happiness without choices. I would much rather be a stone than a human, just if there would be no evil.
If someone goes to hell, does he still have the chance to get away from there when he realizes that he didn't want the torture?
Yes, that's what I want. How could I want something illogical? If God is what Christians claim, nothing is impossible for him.
Yea, people die.
The consequence of sin is death.
Death sucks.
Are we making any progress yet? I can't tell...
Oh, I see - your god tortures and kills thousands of children every day because those children are sinners.
Wow, what a fair and just god you have there - can't wait to worship him.
Funny that, as a self-professed sinner, you slipped through his wrath?
No, lori, you are not making progress. In fact, your line of "thinking," and I use the term loosely, comes from the dark ages. I guess you were just born way after your time.
The consequence of sin is death.
Death sucks.
Are we making any progress yet? I can't tell...
Oh, I see - your god tortures and kills thousands of children every day because those children are sinners.
Wow, what a fair and just god you have there - can't wait to worship him.
Funny that, as a self-professed sinner, you slipped through his wrath?
No, lori, you are not making progress. In fact, your line of "thinking," and I use the term loosely, comes from the dark ages. I guess you were just born way after your time.
(Q) said:
Good God man, we're all gonna die someday!?!? You sound as if you're from some different planet or something. You're human right? Yea, well so am I and we're gonna die...that's just the way it is. Who cares? It's only flesh.
Yorda_7 said:
Bullshit. Three words for ya...Jerry...Springer...show.
I wouldn't. I love life, and I love learning, and I love God. I don't care if it's "uncomfortable" for a while. Things won't always be this way. You're saying that you would rather be some blind, spoon fed puppet. Hm...be careful what you ask for Yorda.
I have heard testimony that says the answer to your question is yes.
It's illogical according to any and all math and science and law that exists in the universe. Until you're able to create your own universe, it would probably be a good idea to consider the laws of this one when making your decisions. In other words, you may want to ride on the back of a flying purple elephant too, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
You're human right? Yea, well so am I and we're gonna die...that's just the way it is. Who cares?
WOW! You are dense.
I'm talking about god torturing and killing thousands of innocent children every day any you could care less.
And if you were the mother of one of those children, you could care less? You wouldn't rail at god for taking your child from you but instead would praise him for being fair and just?
Seek professional help, NOW!
WOW! You are dense.
I'm talking about god torturing and killing thousands of innocent children every day any you could care less.
And if you were the mother of one of those children, you could care less? You wouldn't rail at god for taking your child from you but instead would praise him for being fair and just?
Seek professional help, NOW!
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Yorda_7
Guest
Lori_7 said:
I'm not talking about something "uncomfortable". You twist my words to match your beliefs. I'm talking about real evil. Imagine something terrible, and then imagine that it happened to you. If you experienced it, you would also wish to be a stone, rather than a human.
No, I'm not saying that. I said that I'd want to be nothing, like a stone. If I would be blind, I would still be a human, who can experience pain and misery. A stone has no feelings, no pain, no happiness - nothing.
Why would you curse me like this. Why should I be "careful"? Why would a loving God grant me something that I don't want?
You shouldn't call yourself a Christian, you don't obey his word. You're defiling his name. But I guess you can't do much about it, and this is what Jesus foresaw. You're probably not like this in 'reality' though.
(Q) said:
*cyber-slap*
Get ahold of yourself, man. God doesn't torture or kill anyone, people do. The wages of sin is death. Who sins? Does God sin? Nope. Not even when He was human. And I care about people...I care about kids...while they're alive. I'm just saying, I'm someone's child and I'm gonna die, and so are you, and so is everyone. The whole point is that if you want eternal life, it has to be one without sin. I want that, do you? So that people don't have to suffer and die anymore? That's what is going to happen whether you like it or not. You can either get on board or not.
Lori,
I forgot, do you believe in hell and eternal suffering for non-believers or is it just oblivion for us? Just curious. (Really. I forget your position on this...)
I forgot, do you believe in hell and eternal suffering for non-believers or is it just oblivion for us? Just curious. (Really. I forget your position on this...)
Yorda_7 said:
Yorda,
I am talking about real evil too. Life is painful for all of us, even unto death. I'm saying that we're all here to learn from it, and then pass over into an eternal existence that leaves this pain and death behind.
I don't mean to sound callous or uncaring, I'm not. But you must admit that the life of a stone isn't much of a life at all. Whatever your misery is, Jesus can help you.
Whoa...I would never curse you. I'm talking about what you do want...to be like a stone. I would hope for something much better for you.
Those are some pretty harsh statements. I'm certainly a sinner, and am indeed a Christian.
superluminal said:
I'm really not sure. I haven't really been all that concerned about it honestly. Let's see...there's a first death and a second death...first of the flesh, and second of the spirit, after the 1000 year reign of Christ.
I think that in either case, you get what you want. Upon the first death, do you want an existence with Him or without Him? It may be that an existence without Him could mean different things for different people...like "your own personal hell". I'm not sure.
But then the Bible says that after the 1000 years, everyone in heaven and hell will be judged, and that "if anyone's name is not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown in the lake of fire." The devil, the beast, the false prophet, death and hades are the only things specifically told of being cast into the fire. Hey, what if everyone's name was in the book?
You know what I think? I think that judgement is nothing more than seeing the truth about yourself...about your life. We receive enlightenment from God so that we can realize the truth about our existence. The truth can hurt, but it can also set you free. So who knows?
staples disconnected
Registered Senior Member
Lori,
The consequence of cellular regeneration slowing down to a point that it no longer replenishes the body is death.
Sin is an abstract term created that has no imperative on the longevity of biological organisms life spans.
The consequence of cellular regeneration slowing down to a point that it no longer replenishes the body is death.
Sin is an abstract term created that has no imperative on the longevity of biological organisms life spans.
staples disconnected
Registered Senior Member
Seriously? Why I die- the allels (sp?) at the ends of my chromosomes are of a dertermined length that get shorter each time chromosomal replication occurs. How I die- my body no longer sustains itself and ultimately through a large build up of dead cells that outweigh the number of live cells in my body, my live cells no longer hold the capability of sustaining my bodies functions.
We die because we are no different to any other organism on this planet- we die for the same reasons. Unless you want to argue that animals or alage sin, be my guest. But arguing that humans don't exist within a closed system is like arguing for our godliness.
I don't care if that's your thoughts. I am excluded from your generalization. It can't be denied because it's a fact that all men are mortal. But as much as I retain the three: faith, hope and love biblically speaking, then I would rather exclude myself temporarily from yourLori_7 said:
declaration, though I am part of mankind since I am waiting for the coming oLori_7 said:
f the Lord Jesus Christ.*************staples disconnected said:
M*W: Apparently, size does matter. How long are your telomers?
Y
Yorda_7
Guest
Lori_7 said:
The point was that it would be pointless to suffer if there was an omnipotent and loving God. It would have been better if he hadn't created us, or at least not "me". But I know that I have always existed and will always exist and I know that I am also the only thing that exist. That is, when I have found my real self, which is "God".
That's the point, life is pain, and since a stone has no life, it has no pain.
I can't choose to believe, because it makes no sense to me. Happiness can't be chosen, it comes with time, then it goes away, and comes again, and so on. The only hope is non-existence, if it "exists".
You would never want to do evil to anyone. You want peace among all things and you want everyone to be happy. This means that you love everyone in the whole world, your love is universal. But even so, you have often done evil and "sinned".
Here's the point: Why would you do evil if you do not want to do evil? It is because you are not yourself. The evil is not you, and it is not coming from you either, it's just passing through your body, which you think is you.
You say that all humans are sinners, but I say that all humans are, in their heart, all-good, like God himself. What is it that restricts us from doing what we want, what restricts eternal happiness? It is our body. This is just its mental evolution, and we can do nothing but suffer and wait. My only saviour is time.
How do you know what I want? Just because I said it? What if some force or person made me say that? Or maybe I've changed my mind? Maybe I'm not even the same person anymore. Only God (my real self, my goal) knows what I want. But I guess you just thought you knew.
As for this stone, it was just an example. Since I think that if I didn't exist, that would be as though I have reached perfection. What I really want is very simple: happiness for everyone.
But I'm not stupid. I don't think there is an omnipotent God who can give me this wish. Otherwise he would have already done that.
If I really had "free will", I could just wish and my wish would come true. Only if I am omnipotent I am free to do anything. But to become omnipotent I must follow certain laws, which means that I'm not really free.
Life is just a game, it is predestined, everyone goes to "heaven". Because the self is all that exists, I can just watch and wait until life ends, and I can choose freely but with a limited body. I can choose this way or the other way, and since I'm still limited, and I don't know everything, life is gambling.
Who decides who is a "Christian" and who is not? Only God can know what we really are. What we say doesn't make anything true necessarily. Hitler could have easily said that he is a Christian.
I want happiness, yet I go to hell (according to you, not according to "God") So I don't get what I want. You can't just say that we have to accept "Him" if we want eternal perfection. That's your belief, it may not be true for us. You are not God, you can't be sure what is true. It's not so simple for everyone. For you it is, because you are there. If you are happy, you can't talk about what sorrow is, you just think you talk about it, but you twist it because of what you are (happy).
You can't read the Bible because you don't have the mind of God. Only God knows what the true interpretation is. There are so many different branches of Christianity, and then there are other religions too.
People claim they are right, and that is all they do: claim. It doesn't make it right. But this is also all I can do.
There are no absolutes. No one knows anything, neither did the one who said this. Whatever was said was interpreted differently according to the levels of consciousness of the people. But is that really "true"?
How could someone want to go to heaven if someone has to spend an eternity in hell. Don't you have a conscience? You're nuts if you think that's what we "really want". But I "know" you're just defending your belief. Mere words, and so are these. No.
staples disconnected
Registered Senior Member
M*W,
lol, thanks for the correction, I wrote allels but was thinking that I was wrong.
lol, thanks for the correction, I wrote allels but was thinking that I was wrong.