Do you guys believe in the chosen people?

[Lori_7]

You sound like an abused girlfriend justifying staying with your man because "He loves me".

How in the hell am I abused?

Life is a learning experience that I'm grateful for. You realize that our perceptions are very different because you believe that this life is all there is, and I look forward to something else...something much better...utilizing what we've learned. An evolution if you will...you guys like that term don't you? Well there ya go.

 

[Lori_7]

So Lori,

When we say we could never love a god that demands love on pain of eternal torture, how would you ever expect us to even remotely want to know him? Even assuming he was real?

Why would you want a God that tolerates hate?

If He is who He says He is, then He created you and the entire universe and everything in it and designed the laws under which everything lives and operates. Don't you think it prudent to at least meet Him and get to know Him before you make a decision like eternal life or death?

Have you ever been wrong? How about wrong about someone?

It's a hell of a chance to take...pardon the pun.

 

[one_raven]

How in the hell am I abused?

You sound like the woman who is staying with the man who says, "If you leave me I will kill you", and justifying it with, "...but he LOVES me."

Life is a learning experience that I'm grateful for.

As am I.

You realize that our perceptions are very different because you believe that this life is all there is, and I look forward to something else...something much better...

Be careful what you assume about people.

utilizing what we've learned.

"Learned"?
Don't you mean "told"?
How did you "Learn" this? By what experience?
Do you mean your conversations with God, or do you mean what you have read in the Bible?

 

[Lori_7]

Lori,

"Spot on" means "Right on". "You hit the nail on the head".

I have no god but am full of love. And I have no god but am full of life.

You have a God, you just don't know Him yet. He wubs you. Tee hee. Sorry.

 

[one_raven]

Why would you want a God that tolerates hate?

I'm not talking about hate, I am simply talking about rejection.
He isn't that petty is he?

Don't you think it prudent to at least meet Him and get to know Him before you make a decision like eternal life or death?

Tell him to come by my house and introduce himself.

Have you ever been wrong? How about wrong about someone?

It's a hell of a chance to take...pardon the pun.

Of course I have been wrong.
Countless times.
Have you?

I refuse to base my beliefs on fear of what may be possible.
Hell, what ISN'T possible?
With that reasoning I should believe in everything everyone tells me I must believe in.

 

[superluminal]

Who said anything about tolerating hate?

I don't hate anybody. Well, my daughters ex husband... Oh I really don't like him...

And if you're right, and we're wrong, and we simply do our best with the intellect god gave us, what will you say to god on our behalf? Knowing we are eternally suffering for simply not getting the message? Or maybe it dosen't matter. I find the very mind set that can even contemplate eternal torture for simply not acknowledging the existence of a "loving god" to be alien.

How can you, as a nice person, want anything to do with this god of conditional "love"? It's beyond me.

 

[(Q)]

children who are separated from their parents do suffer because of it...even if they're separated for a good reason. That's just the way it is...the way God made it to be.

Unexplainable, isn't it? God makes children suffer, he tortures and kills them too, by the thousands, every day.

What "good reason" can we presume?

Soul quotas?

Asinine, that's just the way it is...

 

[Cris]

Lori,

You are not answering the question.

Because He loves us enough to give us free will, and some of us idiots apparently choose eternal torture. I don't know why some do. But He gives us what we want...what more could you ask for?

This is irrelevant as you said earlier, he will love us whatever we choose.

The act of loving and imposing torture are mutually exclusive, one cannot do both at the same time.

If he is torturing then he cannot be loving – his love is therefore CONDITIONAL upon how we behave. This is contrary to your claim.

 

[staples disconnected]

one_raven,

I refuse to base my beliefs on fear of what may be possible.

nice pretty much one of the corner stones of my disbelief in christianity.

 

[Lori_7]

You sound like the woman who is staying with the man who says, "If you leave me I will kill you", and justifying it with, "...but he LOVES me."

I see your point, but it's irrelevant, because I'm not abused, and I would never want to leave Him. I wouldn't want to live without Him, not now, and certainly not for an eternity. God is everything to me. Don't get me wrong, I can be quite the fuck up. And I love my friends and family very much. But I tell God in prayer that I don't want my life unless it belongs to Him, and I mean it. Because I've experienced Him the way I have, choosing to live without Him seems completely insane to me...I would have to be insane not to want to live with Him forever. I don't expect people who don't have the same experience to feel the same way though.

Be careful what you assume about people.

You know, I remember talking with you plenty, and that you're a hell of a nice guy, but I can't remember details necessarily. I'm a poster child for "just say no" to pot...my memory sucks. It's nice to talk to you again though.

"Learned"?
Don't you mean "told"?

No, I mean learned. Who's gonna tell me something? lol.

How did you "Learn" this? By what experience?
Do you mean your conversations with God, or do you mean what you have read in the Bible?

38 years of life experience. The things that I have learned are confirmed in scripture. God has helped me understand many things that are so important to me. This understanding has given me so much fulfillment that, like I said, I want to live forever...for the first time in a long time. There have been plenty of times in which I would describe our communication as a "conversation", but that's not usually how it is. God has communicated with me in a variety of ways.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

I'm just curious on your beliefs toward the idea that jews are the chosen people

were, but let it go to their heads, then lost them to the Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks, Spanish, Italians

the modern Western Socieites have been good to jews, the US in particular
check what countries they came from

( you know like to lead the world into the future or something ) ?

Golda's dead

(((personally I believe they are....making up only a quarter of a percent of the population of the world,

only if one becomes US prez

and somehow winning like half of the nobel prizes.

ok, alot
http://www.yahoodi.com/famous/nobel1.html

and all the greats seem to be jewish---eg Einsten, Freud etc.))))

greats? in what?
arts=Picasso
politics= FDR, Churchill,
math=Fibonacci, Whitehead
physics=Niels Bohr
astronomy=Galileo, Hubble
business=Bill Gates
sports=Michael Jordan

 

[Lori_7]

I'm not talking about hate, I am simply talking about rejection.
He isn't that petty is he?

The whole point is to find out one way or the other for yourself...to want that "proof"...to seek it from God. He doesn't want you to reject Him in ignorance any more than He wants you to accept Him in fear. Actually, the way He explained it to me, fear is what makes some reject Him. You would not reject a God that you loved, or that didn't love you.

The whole point of this is to learn and make a choice....good or evil...what do you want? God is good, sin is evil, and He wants to get rid of it, so that we can live with Him forever. He's not very "middle of the road" at all.

Tell him to come by my house and introduce himself.

You can't do that yourself? He's listening to you. Tell Him how it is.

Of course I have been wrong.
Countless times.
Have you?

Yes, constantly. And that realization and the humility that comes from it is what keeps my mind and heart open. Humility is the key to seeking the truth, especially about God. And that's why now knowing Him, I trust Him with my life.

Certainly you realize that you could be wrong about God right? After all, everyone is to some degree or another.

Hell, what ISN'T possible?

Exactly. And that's absolutely the kind of open mind and heart that seeks the truth...you're golden. God doesn't want you to believe anything out of fear, or to be spoon fed some belief about Him or anything else. He doesn't even want you to take His own word for it. He wants you to live it.

 

[water]

Lori,


This is all nice, but I'm not sure you are aware into what quagmires you may be sending people by telling them to turn to God, at least in Christianity.

No sane person can remain sane if they read the Bible and try to maintain that it is the inerrant Word of God. The Bible, as we get to read it, in translations, speaks with a forked tongue. There are numerous Christian theologies, and all of them find some support in the Bible. But there is no unified Christian theology.

Individual theologies are, in themselves, internally consistent. But you can find Bible passages that opppose this or that theology.

And this is what a newcomer gets to see of Christianity.

Personally, I do not recommend to turn to the God of the Bible unless one can afford and is able to study it intensely, with additional resources and knowing the original languages.
Otherwise, one must either be very, very choosy in what one reads, or go insane.

 

[Lori_7]

Lori,


This is all nice, but I'm not sure you are aware into what quagmires you may be sending people by telling them to turn to God, at least in Christianity.

No sane person can remain sane if they read the Bible and try to maintain that it is the inerrant Word of God. The Bible, as we get to read it, in translations, speaks with a forked tongue. There are numerous Christian theologies, and all of them find some support in the Bible. But there is no unified Christian theology.

Individual theologies are, in themselves, internally consistent. But you can find Bible passages that opppose this or that theology.

And this is what a newcomer gets to see of Christianity.

Personally, I do not recommend to turn to the God of the Bible unless one can afford and is able to study it intensely, with additional resources and knowing the original languages.
Otherwise, one must either be very, very choosy in what one reads, or go insane.

Yea, screw reading and theology. I just want everyone to go insane, like me.

 

[water]

Yea, screw reading and theology. I just want everyone to go insane, like me.

This is not a responsible answer, and you are only harming your cause.

 

[Lori_7]

I was just kidding...lighten up.

You know I don't agree with you. You're saying that because people interpret the Bible differently, for a host of different reasons, that it's untrue, or better yet, will drive someone insane? k.

 

[superluminal]

Water drives me insane. Especially when it drips slowly onto my forehead.

Drip...drip...drip...

woah.

Water - stop dripping.

 

[(Q)]

So, if god is telling lori one thing and water another, who is he lying to?

 

[enton]

Lori,

You are not answering the question.

This is irrelevant as you said earlier, he will love us whatever we choose.

The act of loving and imposing torture are mutually exclusive, one cannot do both at the same time.

If he is torturing then he cannot be loving – his love is therefore CONDITIONAL upon how we behave. This is contrary to your claim.

Cris,

Maybe, Lori meant, the God of the Bible is a permissive God. Love is limited. God is love. Then what love is justifiable in God`s eyes? Of course the love that`s defined in the Bible, charity.

"Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things."

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

And regarding a quote from you "how we behave. " I remember the olden verse from the letter of Paul to Timothy:

"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." 1 Timothy 3:15

Enton

 

[Lori_7]

Who said anything about tolerating hate?

Well, it's really one or the other, as I kind of explained to one raven, God's not hip on being lukewarm, or sitting on a fence. I think that probably just defeats the purpose of being here in the first place, you know?

I don't hate anybody. Well, my daughters ex husband... Oh I really don't like him...

Protective fathers are cool. I have two...one spiritual, one physical. They make me feel good about being a girl.

And if you're right, and we're wrong, and we simply do our best with the intellect god gave us, what will you say to god on our behalf? Knowing we are eternally suffering for simply not getting the message? Or maybe it dosen't matter. I find the very mind set that can even contemplate eternal torture for simply not acknowledging the existence of a "loving god" to be alien.

Ok, when I read this, I found it contradictory. I'm hearing "I don't want the consequences of not getting the message, but I don't want the message either." Or at the very least, you're willing to censor it. What I want to know is are you willing to accept the truth even if the truth isn't what you want it to be?

How can you, as a nice person, want anything to do with this god of conditional "love"? It's beyond me.

SL, I assure you, that if God's love was conditional, I would not have it. And I know that like I know my name.