Do you give charity?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

My position on the tigers is somewhere between. If they became extinct, the people who like knowing they exist in the wild would be affected, even if they had no plans to ever see them in the wild. I applaud EmptyForce’s efforts to save their wild status. But I agree with the Baron, the wild tigers are doomed. One person does make a difference, but the odds of enough people caring about the tigers' fate in time to save them is nil. Millions of people really want to kill them, like for “aphrodasiacs”, and the pressures put on them by human population growth will probably mean the end of them in any case.

The best way to keep them wild may be to support their captivity and breeding in zoos until civilization as we know it collapses and we achieve a more enlightened age that will allow them to be returned to the wild. That collapse could easily happen this century. World population is predicted to hit something like 10 billion by 2050, and the Earth probably cannot sustain even the current 7 billion long term.

sadly what yu said is most likely true, but if we all work together we can pay for gaurds to protect them, also we can buy land to house the tigers, if we create enough breeding programs we can make sure the species stays with us, and like you say let them out in the wild again when we are ready to respect them,

the more people who try to help the better.



peace.

 

[Faerynght]

I do not give money to charities but my daughter and I do donate time to help various organizations to help people that need assistance. We are active in many events and also volunteer at two local hospitals.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

We give all our charity budget to the Central Asia Institute http://www.ikat.org/ in Bozeman, Montana. They build schools in the backwaters of the Middle East. The only requirement is that they admit girls--either girls-only or coeducational. They've built around sixty so far.

That's the key to peace in the Middle East. Educating their women.

 

[zanket]

sadly what yu said is most likely true, but if we all work together we can pay for gaurds to protect them, also we can buy land to house the tigers, if we create enough breeding programs we can make sure the species stays with us, and like you say let them out in the wild again when we are ready to respect them,

the more people who try to help the better.

If there are guards to protect them, land to house them, and a breeding program, what you have is a zoo. The most efficient zoos have fences (less need for guards). Why not just give your money and time to zoos? They don't need to be in India. In fact, you'd want to support zoos all over the world, for diversification. Look what happened to the animals at the Baghdad zoo. India is corrupt. The guards you pay could be moonlighting as poachers.

 

[mountainhare]

Why the hell would I give to charity? Why do essentially useless individuals deserve my money?

Especially the people living in the West? How can you 'struggle to survive' in a pampered, 1st world Western country? The only way you might be 'struggling to survive' is if you're an alcoholic or druggie, and that's your own god damn fault.

 

[James R]

Why do essentially useless individuals deserve my money?

The causes of extreme poverty have little to do with individuals being "useless".

 

[mountainhare]

OK. Useless, and producing millions of offspring.

 

[James R]

The causes of extreme poverty have little to do with population.

 

[mountainhare]

Really? Then what is the cause of poverty, oh Master?

And do you mean to tell me that continued, unrestricted fucking don't compound the problem?

 

[zanket]

... if we all work together we can pay for gaurds to protect them, also we can buy land to house the tigers, if we create enough breeding programs we can make sure the species stays with us, and like you say let them out in the wild again when we are ready to respect them,...

Strangely enough, today I learned that a zoo in my area just got two Bengal Tiger cubs. Looks like I'll be making a donation!

 

[S.A.M.]

Really? Then what is the cause of poverty, oh Master?

And do you mean to tell me that continued, unrestricted fucking don't compound the problem?

Get an education

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Poverty.asp

Structural Adjustment—a Major Cause of Poverty

Cutbacks in health, education and other vital social services around the world have resulted from International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank-prescribed structural adjustment policies as condition for loans and repayment. In addition, developing nation governments are required to open their economies to compete with each other and with more powerful and established industrialized nations. To attract investment, poor countries enter a spiraling race to the bottom to see who can provide lower standards, reduced wages and cheaper resources. This has increased poverty and inequality for most people. It also forms a backbone to what we today call globalization. As a result, it maintains the historic unequal rules of trade

 

[Baron Max]

“Originally Posted by mountainhare
Really? Then what is the cause of poverty, oh Master?"

Get an education.

...LOL! Sam, Sam, Sam ...there was poverty long, long before the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank!

Perhaps you should read some of the bullshit you post, rather than just post it as if you know what the fuck you're talking about.

Over-population for people and areas that can't sustain the population ...that's what causes poverty. If a couple can't even adequately feed themselves, or provide adequate housing and medical care, the very last fuckin' thing they need is a damned kid!!! ...or worse KIDS! Yet the poorest areas in the world have the greatest production of kids.

Baron Max

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Over-population for people and areas that can't sustain the population ...that's what causes poverty. If a couple can't even adequately feed themselves, or provide adequate housing and medical care, the very last fuckin' thing they need is a damned kid!!! ...or worse KIDS! Yet the poorest areas in the world have the greatest production of kids.

Most of the poorest areas in the world are only a few generations out of the Stone Age. That's not long enough to reform cultural habits that have been ingrained for thousands of years. Child mortality was so high that if they had twelve they'd be lucky if four survived. They'd need four to support them in their old age, and to keep the family farm or craft going to help the village survive.

Look at how hard it is to coax us smart, modern Americans out of obsolete cultural patterns. (Like driving to work every day when we all have computers and telephones right here at home.) How can we expect people who have only a dim understanding of cause-and-effect to do any better?

I'm not a big advocate of sending food to the Third World, if only because it always ends up in the hands of corrupt politicians who trade it for weapons and hookers. But I do advocate doing whatever we can to speed up their learning process, so they can lift themselves out of their own poverty. It's a lot less expensive than feeding them.

This is why my wife and I give all of our charity budget to the Central Asia Institute. They build schools to help bring the female half of the Middle East into the mainstream of politics and culture and bring some balance to that testosterone frenzy. See my earlier post.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

If there are guards to protect them, land to house them, and a breeding program, what you have is a zoo. The most efficient zoos have fences (less need for guards). Why not just give your money and time to zoos? They don't need to be in India. In fact, you'd want to support zoos all over the world, for diversification. Look what happened to the animals at the Baghdad zoo. India is corrupt. The guards you pay could be moonlighting as poachers.

yes but actual zoos cost a hell of alot of money for the upkeep and running. its far cheaper to pay for gaurds and small select scattered breeding programs, than to keep a fulltime zoo in operation,


it costs only £10-15 a week for a guard to follow the wild tigers around, they catch there own food (deer, boar etc) you dont need to maintain a building. it is far cheaper to pay for an armed guard to protect the wild animals than to raise funds to keep an entire zoo operational.


i have been doing some work with experts in this field for a short while and i have learned alot. we need to enforce laws to protect wild animals or they are doomed to stay captive forever. we cannot just put everything in a zoo.


peace.

 

[zanket]

Those are good points. There's also the aspect that zoos have an incentive to keep animals in captivity.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Those are good points. There's also the aspect that zoos have an incentive to keep animals in captivity.

yeah but it is possible to introduce captive animals into the wild. i was watching a doc on national geographic ages ago, it was about 2 twin tiger cubs who were raised by this guy. (captive ofcourse). but when they were fully grown he introduced them into the african wild, (first tigers to live in africa) and they did very well in the wild. tigers are usualy lone hunters unlike lions, but these 2 tigers worked together very well, and within a short time of bieng released they caught some prey, they were tagged and tracked and i have not heard about them since,


tigers are very adaptable animals and can survive nearly anywhere where they can hunt and have access to water, the only problem they face are human trophy hunters. if we provide them with armed guards and border patrolers with outposts who keep the hunting to a minimum from humans they can survive.

we can save them but there are alot of people with lazy "why should i care" attitudes. everybody thinks they shouldent care because they are doomed anyway, but if we have that attitude with everything in the world we are going to doom things with our very attitude, because humans can make a difference we have the intelligence and the power to stop these animals from dying out in the wild.


even if we have to section off huge areas and create more national park free land enviroments for them to live then so be it, aslong as they have a big enough territory to roam free and they are safe from hunters then its good,


peace.

 

[zanket]

everybody thinks they shouldent care because they are doomed anyway, but if we have that attitude with everything in the world we are going to doom things with our very attitude, because humans can make a difference we have the intelligence and the power to stop these animals from dying out in the wild.

Agreed. You're talking about self-fulfilling prophecy. In the run-up to the Iraq war a friend of mine's position was "there will always be war". How depressing.

 

[Baron Max]

we can save them but there are alot of people with lazy "why should i care" attitudes.

Well, that's a good question ...and one I asked earlier which you didn't answer! Why should we save the tigers? What good are they to anyone? And, yes, I'm being perfectly serious.

even if we have to section off huge areas and create more national park free land enviroments for them to live then so be it, aslong as they have a big enough territory to roam free and they are safe from hunters then its good,...

Think about it ....the USA, the richest, most powerful nation on Earth can't protect it's own southern border from illegal invasion, yet you think someone could seal off a section of wilderness in India? Are you even thinking straight here, Empty?

Again, ....what the hell good are tigers to anyone?

Baron Max

 

[mountainhare]

S.A.M:

Get an education

Pretty arrogant of you to assume that I don't have an education. I should report that blatant ad hominem, but, like Xerxes, I am kind.

You can blame the IMF and World Bank all you want. I don't deny that they play a role in 3rd world poverty, much like droughts and floods do. But this doesn't change the fact that a people with half a brain would stop fucking if they were living in times of poverty and famine. You 'adapt' to deal with extrinsic factors.

Many mammals (off the top of my head, kangaroos) will stop breeding if water and food are scarce. On the other hand, the niggers in Africa think "Less food... breed more!" Yeah, real smart...

 

[Orleander]

... On the other hand, the niggers in Africa think "Less food... breed more!" Yeah, real smart...

Yeah, the mass rapes and no birth control have nothing to do with it you raging bigot.
And I don't think an education will do you a bit of good.