Do You Believe in Science?
- Thread starter (Q)
- Start date
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
JDawg,
Q has asserted that if you believe in God, you must believe in things that are contradicted by science. I do not think this is the case. Do you?
It is in that context I use that example. (as always, I must make it clear that I am not presenting these arguments as evidence or proof of God. I do get tired of saying it, but there it is. Maybe I will make it a permanent footer to my posts.)
He's smug and evasive and on this issue wrong even if you think he is 'on the right team'.
The same thing can be said of MynameisDan, who says that evolution is contradictory to science...why are you not over there giving him What For?
Anyway, to answer your question...no, god is not contradicted by science. However, there are fundamentals within the Bible (which is the god I'm sure he was referring to) that simply do not stand up under the microscope of modern science. So if you had to lean one way or the other based on the scientific evidence, you'd have to lean towards the Christian God not being real. Or at least not being how he is portrayed by the Bible.
Also, we call God "He". The fact that the lone omnipotent, and by all accounts celebate, being in the history of everything would have a sex...it doesn't add up.
The reason I took it that way is for the reason I stated above: You only get on the atheist. You say that atheists here make these outrageous claims, but the truth is that far more theists make far more outrageous claims. You're a learned dude, from what I can tell, so why aren't you telling them how wrong they are?
You silence speaks volumes.
[/quote]He's smug and evasive and on this issue wrong even if you think he is 'on the right team'.[/QUOTE]
Well, according to what we know about the claims made in the Bible...he is on the right team. Evasive, maybe. But it's your choice to debate him. Nobody's forcing you.
If there were one god, we'd all know about it, and agree with the one, single message one god would reveal. There would be no differences of opinion.
Appeal to authority.
Isn't that convenient of you to move the goalposts.
Clearly, you are but a child believing in delusions and fairy tales. Grow up.
YOU are the one who is being evasive. You keep moving the goalposts because you refuse to accept the fact that people who purport to follow a religion do no such thing, that they are hypocrites, much like yourself.
The definition is concluded the same way any such word is defined. Muslims follow & live by the Koran. Mormons follow & live by the Mormon bibles. The Art Preservation Society tries to preserve art.
Nothing else makes any damn sense.
The Holy Babble is clearly against homosexuals. It states clearly they should be killed. It is absurd for homosexuals to claim to be Christian. If they absolutely must believe in some god, it is not the god of the christian bible & they should call it & them something else.
I feel the presence of something I can't explain when I masturbate. THERE IS A GOD!
I am an expert in Christianity. You, Simon, obviously are not.
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What is most astounding in all of this is how well versed in the bible Q and Stranger are. I'm not that big a fan of hitler, thus I don't generally read things about him. Weird that you two would seek out that which is such an affront to you. Is it like homophobes secretly being homosexual? You are so against christianity because you secretly want to be a christian?
That's one of the primary differences between us and theists, theists never do their homework. Theists make light of the atrocities and contradictions of their religions while we bring those nasty bits to the forefront to demonstrate the hypocrisy of worshiping cruel and immoral gods.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
I move the goalposts because to keep you from distracting on the issue.
I mention a person with certain beliefs.
You say that they, as Christians, must have these other beliefs and then 'show' they are hypocrites.
I spend some time pointing out how ridiculous this is, that you shall judge what a real christian is, get no acknowledgement for from you, so I shift to easier ground.
a theist who is not a Christian, who feels close to God when he prays and feels he will be united with God when he dies.
No contradictions with Science.
If I did, it would be a simple matter of conducting some medieval ritual like someone sprinkling water over my head and muttering the relative prose.
However, that is the point exactly. Is that all it takes to be a Christian?
I would suspect that one must live by the literal word of their god, unequivocally and unfettered. If you don't, you go to hell. Clearly, the vast majority of Christians are hell bound and they would be lying if they denied it.
Q-it takes less than that. No water. Just belief. Christ's death absolves us of all sin. He wants us to do our best to be good people, but that's about it. Jesus was pretty mum on the whole homosexual issue, actually.
No, you move the goalposts because you assume that if someone sprinkles a little water on your head and says the magic words, *poof* you're a Christian.
So, now you have to fabricate lies to make your point? I clearly stated that it is entirely up to the god in question who would dictate what their followers will do, and if they don't, they shall endure gods wrath.
So, what religion exactly is your theist, or has he fabricated his own version of delusion?
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
there are so many errors of logic in the above and reference to my position I don't know where to start.
A Christian is someone who believes that Christ is a special case and can help them be good and find peace, etc. It includes people who believe the Bibles every word is the word of God, but is not restricted to them.
I AM SO FUCKING TIRED OF THIS ERROR ON YOUR PART.
I never, ever anywhere in Sciforums, have said that someone's experience of God proves there is a God. But somehow atheists like you have such blinders on that you cannot understand any nuance in argument.
This is just bullshit misreading and misunderstanding of context on your part.
When I gave Q the example of a believer I WAS NOT MAKING THE CASE THAT HIS EXPERIENCE OF GOD OR THINKING HE IS EXPERIENCING GOD WHILE PRAYING IS PROOF OF GOD.
I was giving him as an example of someone whose beliefs are not contradicted by science.
Read that a couple of times. If you cannot understand the distinction, there is no point in going further.
You are assuming that the point I am making is to prove that God exists. No. My participation in this thread has been to prove that atheists here are incorrect about certain things. Phlogistan about the words 'atheism' and 'atheist', Q about his assertion that belief in God means believing that some scientific theory is false, etc.
You have such a clear image in your head about what a theist must be doing that you cannot notice what I am doing despite repeated assertions on my part. IOW you are hallucinating.
Originally Posted by (Q)
You have to understand, ham, I am afraid of christianity. That's why I go on the attack all the time. It's also why I only partially quote anybody and respond to whatever piece of their post pleases me. I'm just too much of an embarrassing mental midget to think things through fully. I am an example of bigotry in it's lowest form.
I used to defend you Ham and from time to time helped you out. Why would you make up something like that?
You have to understand, ham, I am afraid of christianity. That's why I go on the attack all the time. It's also why I only partially quote anybody and respond to whatever piece of their post pleases me. I'm just too much of an embarrassing mental midget to think things through fully. I am an example of bigotry in it's lowest form.
Come now, Q. Don't be so hard on yourself. God loves you, buddy!
I used to defend you Ham and from time to time helped you out. Why would you make up something like that?
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Who cares? Do you follow the bible to the letter? No? Then, you're going to hell like the rest of us. Case closed.
Atheists do their best and are good people, yet your cult would have us swinging by a rope, at the very least. So, don't feed us your bullshit about it's "just belief."
Come on, puddin. 's okay. I don't recall you defending me, though. Nor helping me out. Perhaps any such memories have been erased by your constant near random quotations of things other people say. You quote it, pick some you want to refute, then post it on up there. You have driven me to cursing on more than one occasion doing this, so, turnabout is fair play, right?
Since, you are going to lie about what I said, I see no reason to continue. And, if that is your set of beliefs, then you have some serious problems, pal.
I criticized your cult but defended you, personally. So, you can fuck off, now.