Do you believe in miracles?

[VitalOne]

True perfection seems imperfect.

Why don't you pray (sincerely) for my understanding of God's existence? We will see if that works. I promise to be honest and tell you if God turns me religious.

You really want me to try to do that? You realize that manifesting someone becoming religious is almost like mind control right?

 

[Enmos]

Because the observers exists independently of the universe, the universe has no independent existence of its own, thats how

Well that's a rather bold assertion. So the whole story about God created heaven and earth is false ? And how did these observers come to be if there is no universe ?
And provide some evidence for this wild assertion please..

 

[spidergoat]

You really want me to try to do that? You realize that manifesting someone becoming religious is almost like mind control right?

It seems like a good test. I volunteer.

 

[Enmos]

No, not if there's some external measure determining whether you have it or not

How will you know the difference, after all you already believe you have it.

Yeah exactly, God is unchanging, the non-doer, he helps all and yet none, he is the absolute truth, the highest happiness, the resting place of all, the fulfiller of desires, he is the alpha and omega, the beginning, middle, end

So he helps no one. Glad we got that settled.

 

[Enmos]

You really want me to try to do that? You realize that manifesting someone becoming religious is almost like mind control right?

Try it on me too.

 

[VitalOne]

Well that's a rather bold assertion. So the whole story about God created heaven and earth is false ? And how did these observers come to be if there is no universe ?
And provide some evidence for this wild assertion please..

Because observers always exist, just like what Quantum Immortality says, God still created the heavens and the Earths because without God there is no heaven and Earth

How will you know the difference, after all you already believe you have it.

By the external measures, like say for instance you're sick, and you want to become healed, if you imagine the feeling of being healed then you externally measure if you really are becoming healed

Or say you want a new better job, you imagine the feeling of already having a new better job, you can externally measure if you really have it

So he helps no one. Glad we got that settled.

Well he helps everyone too

It seems like a good test. I volunteer.

Try it on me too.

Really? This should be fun, anyway what would happen is you will feel more and more compelled to believe its all true all of a sudden, of course you will struggle with your mind trying to cancel it out, but the feeling of believing its all true will become very very strong

First I have to change my intention so that it becomes very very desirable, once that happens simple intense concentration upon the desire will cause great results

 

[Enmos]

Because observers always exist, just like what Quantum Immortality says, God still created the heavens and the Earths because without God there is no heaven and Earth

No, you just said the universe doesn't exist. So God didn't created anything other than perhaps the observers. But they seem to be on the same plain as God in your explanation.

By the external measures, like say for instance you're sick, and you want to become healed, if you imagine the feeling of being healed then you externally measure if you really are becoming healed

Or say you want a new better job, you imagine the feeling of already having a new better job, you can externally measure if you really have it

Really ? So what you are trying to say is that you imagine God to exist ?
Believing in something doesn't mean you simply imagine it to be true, it's means you really, without any doubt, know it IS true.

Well he helps everyone too

Because everyone helps himself right ?

Really? This should be fun, anyway what would happen is you will feel more and more compelled to believe its all true all of a sudden, of course you will struggle with your mind trying to cancel it out, but the feeling of believing its all true will become very very strong

First I have to change my intention so that it becomes very very desirable, once that happens simple intense concentration upon the desire will cause great results

I'm all for it. It is not like i want to be an atheist and don't want to believe in God, like you like to say.
Give it your best shot and we will see what happens

 

[VitalOne]

No, you just said the universe doesn't exist. So God didn't created anything other than perhaps the observers. But they seem to be on the same plain as God in your explanation.

No I didn't, I said the universe has no independent existence....all the innumerable universes already exist, there are infinite minds, infinite universes, there's another universe where you're a theist

Really ? So what you are trying to say is that you imagine God to exist ?
Believing in something doesn't mean you simply imagine it to be true, it's means you really, without any doubt, know it IS true.

No, I'm saying God is the only thing that actually exists in reality, the rests are illusions, having no actual existence of their own

Its like the Tao says:
"The great Tao flows everywhere.
All things are born from it,
yet it doesn't create them.
It pours itself into its work,
yet it makes no claim.
It nourishes infinite worlds,
yet it doesn't hold on to them.
Since it is merged with all things
and hidden in their hearts"

Krishna said "And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable"

Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.Split a piece of wood; I am there.Lift up the stone, and you will find me there"

Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the cup? Don't you understand that the one who made the inside is also the one who made the outside?"

Because everyone helps himself right ?

No...

Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a person who wanted to kill someone powerful. While still at home he drew his sword and thrust it into the wall to find out whether his hand would go in. Then he killed the powerful one."

I'm all for it. It is not like i want to be an atheist and don't want to believe in God, like you like to say.
Give it your best shot and we will see what happens

Ok, its simple, since this is just my personal universe, while not observing all the innumerable universes exist, when I observe I can only experience the particular universe that is in-tune with the thought-energy (karma) within me, this is the only possibility, if I change the thought-energy, the universe I exist in changes

 

[Enmos]

No I didn't, I said the universe has no independent existence....all the innumerable universes already exist, there are infinite minds, infinite universes, there's another universe where you're a theist


No, I'm saying God is the only thing that actually exists in reality, the rests are illusions, having no actual existence of their own

Its like the Tao says:
"The great Tao flows everywhere.
All things are born from it,
yet it doesn't create them.
It pours itself into its work,
yet it makes no claim.
It nourishes infinite worlds,
yet it doesn't hold on to them.
Since it is merged with all things
and hidden in their hearts"

Krishna said "And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable"

Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.Split a piece of wood; I am there.Lift up the stone, and you will find me there"

Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the cup? Don't you understand that the one who made the inside is also the one who made the outside?"


No...

Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a person who wanted to kill someone powerful. While still at home he drew his sword and thrust it into the wall to find out whether his hand would go in. Then he killed the powerful one."


Ok, its simple, since this is just my personal universe, while not observing all the innumerable universes exist, when I observe I can only experience the particular universe that is in-tune with the thought-energy (karma) within me, this is the only possibility, if I change the thought-energy, the universe I exist in changes

Blabla dodging this, blabla dodging that blabla

Anyway, if 'this' is your personal universe of which you say "when I observe I can only experience the particular universe that is in-tune with the thought-energy (karma) within me, this is the only possibility, if I change the thought-energy, the universe I exist in changes" you are always going to win.
In your universe, will I convert to Christian right after your prayer ?
This at least sheds some light on your reasoning.

 

[sandy]

I believe in miracles. I am a miracle. I have witnessed miracles. :worship:

 

[spidergoat]

I too am an ordinary miracle.

 

[VitalOne]

Blabla dodging this, blabla dodging that blabla

Anyway, if 'this' is your personal universe of which you say "when I observe I can only experience the particular universe that is in-tune with the thought-energy (karma) within me, this is the only possibility, if I change the thought-energy, the universe I exist in changes" you are always going to win.
In your universe, will I convert to Christian right after your prayer ?
This at least sheds some light on your reasoning.

Well the only way I can win is if I successfully change to become in-tune to the universe where you and goat already are theistic

This is your personal universe too, everyone each exists in their own personal universe, the fact that you and I are interacting is only because the energy within us both is in-tune for it, but specifically just me, because I have the higher dhyana, so I win even though we both each exist in our own personal universe, everyone else who lets their impulses control them loses, they are subject to reality because of their own ignorance, rather than reality being subject to them (the way it should be)

 

[Enmos]

Well the only way I can win is if I successfully change to become in-tune to the universe where you and goat already are theistic

This is your personal universe too, everyone each exists in their own personal universe, the fact that you and I are interacting is only because the energy within us both is in-tune for it, but specifically just me, because I have the higher dhyana, so I win even though we both each exist in our own personal universe, everyone else who lets their impulses control them loses, they are subject to reality because of their own ignorance, rather than reality being subject to them (the way it should be)

Right..
First off "This is your personal universe too.." is a gross contradiction.
Secondly, who's to say that I don't live in a universe where God doesn't exist ?
And lastly, it seems to me arrogance is worse than ignorance.

 

[VitalOne]

Right..
First off "This is your personal universe too.." is a gross contradiction.
Secondly, who's to say that I don't live in a universe where God doesn't exist ?
And lastly, it seems to me arrogance is worse than ignorance.

Its not a contradiction, look up the many-minds interpretation....then maybe you'll have a clearer understanding of the truth instead of being trapped in denial living in a fantasy world where "the world exists independently on its own" (ROFL). Its just like Jesus says "Don't you understand that the one who made the inside is also the one who made the outside?"

God is the basis of all universes, just like Jesus says "I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained"

There's infinite universes, and God is the basis of all universes, there is no universe where God doesn't exist because all universes spring from God, its impossible for any universe to exist without God since God is the basis of all

 

[Enmos]

Its not a contradiction, look up the many-minds interpretation....then maybe you'll have a clearer understanding of the truth instead of being trapped in denial living in a fantasy world where "the world exists independently on its own" (ROFL)

It is a contradiction because you said to me that THIS universe is my personal universe TOO. How can this be, your personal universe is my personal universe too ?
I don't know the many-minds interpretation and I don't think I want to know it. But if that interpretation (the word alone signifies that it is by no means established truth) says it then it is contradictory too.

God is the basis of all universes, just like Jesus says "I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained"

There's infinite universes, and God is the basis of all universes, there is no universe where God doesn't exist because all universes spring from God, its impossible for any universe to exist without God since God is the basis of all

And how did you establish that ? As far as I know the bible doesn't speak about multiple universes (not that it would be evidence if it did).

 

[VitalOne]

It is a contradiction because you said to me that THIS universe is my personal universe TOO. How can this be, your personal universe is my personal universe too ?
I don't know the many-minds interpretation and I don't think I want to know it. But if that interpretation (the word alone signifies that it is by no means established truth) says it then it is contradictory too.

Its not a contradiction, this is your personal universe, and this is my personal universe, where's the contradiction? We're both interacting with each other because everything is in-tune for it to happen, different observers interactnig with each other

What contradiction is there?

And how did you establish that ? As far as I know the bible doesn't speak about multiple universes (not that it would be evidence if it did).

No it doesn't, not to my knowledge

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Don´t worry you guys, you all are just an illusion of my mind, only I exist. I make you atheists, and I make you theists, so you can play Bible fight with each other; I made it just for the fun of it. This is a miracle in motion.

 

[Enmos]

"Its not a contradiction, this is your personal universe, and this is my personal universe, where's the contradiction?"


Well, this is my personal car and this is your personal car too... see any contradictions there ? :bugeye:

 

[ggazoo]

The TV is on and there was just a clip from a "special" news story coming on. (W5)
Some guy handed another guy a bible and the guy threw it back and said you can wipe your ass with it!! LOL

Hearing stuff like that only affirms my faith.:

2 Peter 3:1-4:

"... Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

 

[sandy]

True dat gg. The haters are out there in droves right now. It's part of satan's plan. He will lose. Again. It is written. :bravo: