Do you believe in an afterlife or next life?
- Thread starter NDS
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It is swarming with scientific inaccuracies, and its overall thesis is (in my opinion) wildly and irresponsibly wrong.
David Albert (One of the experts in the film. His emphasis.)
I would suggest reading this: http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/02/david_albert_wh_1
A moment isn't a quantifiable measurement of time any more than a "short while" or a "long time" are. These are qualitative expressions.
Whether time is in discrete quanta or a continuum, both or neither, is a question which it still being researched, as is whether time is something in and of itself, or if it is just how we consider motion and entropy.
It is unlikely that thoughts have an discrete origination in the brain. It is more like a chorus which never stops singing, where particular patterns arise, harmonize, form various melodies and counterpoints for a while then break apart into new directions.
I once watched my brain considering a problem. While I was actively thinking and considering the was lots of beta activity, then, just as I "got it" my brain became very quiet and dropped down into theta for just a moment. The answer presented itself and I bounced back up to alpha as I relaxed and enjoyed the experience.
How I think about that is while working on the problem it is being considered in various ways by as much of the brain as I can throw at it. When one of these sub sections thinks it has it solved it basically yells "shut up" to the rest of the brain so that particular thought can perculate up into the conscious awareness.
Any way, while conscious awareness may come and go, as long as they are alive, the neurons are generating thought patterns.
Yes, well technically that is known as bullshitting, isn't it?
This would then be the bullshit. Please parse this and see if you can understand why it is bullshit so you don't get stuck. Start with what my evidence or lack could possibly have to do with you basing your claims on your complete lack of evidence?
Well, no. "I have zero evidence for anything I'm saying."
Please repeat that until it sinks in.
Logic is only as reliable when applied to reality as the evidence upon which it is based. Zero evidence in, zero logic out.
All you have is ignorance and feeling. Can you see why no one able to bang rocks together and get sparks is terribly impressed?
You should consider gigo -> Garbage in - Garbage out.
Putting the world "logically" in front of a bunch of non sense doesn't mean it is logical. Also what you are doing is trying to argue from ignorance. We don't know everything, therefor what I want is true. We don't know everything, therefor I can blatantly ignore what we do know.
Think about why those aren't true, logically.
Once you think you have a handle on it go over this argument from ignorance: "Logically, if more dimensions are possible which we can't understand, then this lends to the possibility of a spiritual realm, and spirits."
Next you should consider how you are equivocating the term "possibility."
Here is a famous example of that fallacy using "nothing."
Nothing is better than god.
Half a sandwich is better than nothing.
Therefor, half a sandwich is better than god.
What two uses of "possibility" are you conflating?
metalcranium
Registered Member
i believe in an after life. this life to me is just like preliminary for what is to come, like heven. i do believe that the only to reach heven is through the belief of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice so that no man can brag nor are you alowed to be lukewarm. you have to choose one side. many also believe that we are all one single conciousness and the seperation is just an illusioin. however, i believe that this world is a dream with enough time to alow us to choose God or choose the other route before judgement is casted upon every person to have ever existed in this world.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
If you are an athiest you should believe that death means a total end of ones existance. Thats one of the core beliefs of athiests. That when people die they cease to exist.
So in your case either:
1) You did not really die. So your calim to have died is false.
Or
2) You did die and where revived and you are living proof that a person's Spirit can continue to exists through death.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Atheists are not always strict materialists.
Buddhists for example have no beliefs in creator deities, but they nevertheless affirm life after death and a spiritual dimension.
In fact their lore on the subject is far more extensive than Christianity.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
There is no measurable brain activity 20-40 seconds after cardiac arrest.
Although consciousness is lost, your post affirms that consciousness is mysteriously regained to experience paranormal phenomena.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death#Controlled_clinical_death
"Clinical death is the popular term for cessation of blood circulation and breathing. It occurs when the heart stops beating in a regular rhythm, a condition called cardiac arrest.
At the onset of clinical death, consciousness is lost within several seconds. Measurable brain activity stops within 20 to 40 seconds."
Only the evil believe you are either for or against.
no.
no.
[The] deliberate temporary induction of clinical death is called circulatory arrest. It is typically performed by lowering body temperature to +18°C (+64°F), stopping the heart, stopping the brain with drugs to conserve energy, turning off the heart lung machine, and draining blood to eliminate all blood pressure. At such low temperatures the clinically dead state can be sustained without serious brain injury for up to one hour. Longer durations are possible at lower temperatures, but the usefulness of longer procedures has not been established yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death#Controlled_clinical_death
Oh yes, you most certainly are living in a dream. :thumbsup:
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
This ^^^ has no relevance to your argument but it does bring to mind one of the most interesting cases of consciousness continuing beyond clinical death:
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html
Cardiologist Michael Sabom described a near-death experience that occurred while its experiencer - a woman who was having an unusual surgical procedure for the safe excision and repair of a large basilar artery aneurysm - met all of the accepted criteria for brain death.
The unusual medical procedure involved the induction of hypothermic cardiac arrest, in order to insure that the aneurysm at the base of the brain would not rupture during the operation. The patient's body temperature was lowered to 60 degrees Fahrenheit, her heartbeat and breathing ceased, her brain waves flattened, and the blood was completely drained from her head.
Her electroencephalogram was totally flat (indicating no cerebral electrical activity) and auditory evoked potentials (normally elicited by clicks presented through molded earplugs that had been inserted into her ears) ceased (indicating cessation of brainstem functioning). Ordinarily - at regular body temperature - the brain cannot function without its oxygen supply for more than a few minutes.
Lowering the body and brain temperature to 60 degrees F. - by chilling the blood in a bypass machine before returning it to the body and brain - however, can reduce cellular metabolism so that the brain can tolerate complete cerebral blood flow for the 45 minutes or so required for the brain operation.
The patient later reported that, apparently while under these “brain death” conditions, she had a near-death experience (NDE) in which she was able to observe and hear details of objects and happenings in the operating room with accuracy. She also experienced classic components of the NDE, including a tunnel vortex, a bright light, and different figures in the light.
I believe I died once.
Hi,
This is my first post. I was lurking around on google.com trying to find some answers to my experience, and what do you know, this page showed up, so I decided to register and post my experience.
I believe I died around April of this year.
The mindset I had was that I was depressed, I won't bore you with the reasons why, but I did not intend to kill myself. For the sake of the story, my name is Greg, although that is not my real name. This story is from my own personal experience. Now my experience:
I was alone in my room, it was around mid-day and it was quiet, I may have heard a maid or two cleaning other rooms. There was sunshine outside. I decided to go to bed because I was tired, sad, and I basically felt alone. I went to bed, placing my glasses on the counter next to me. I had 3 bed-sheets over my whole body, from head to toe; a thin bed-sheet, a thin blanket, and a comforter. I closed my eyes and started to breathe slowly. I was in a depressed state and I believe that affected my breathing pattern. Before I knew it, I was breathing very slowly, and I remember thinking to myself, something along the lines of, "I'm going to die if I don't breathe.", a few short moments later, I thought to myself, "Oh well, I don't care."
Not a moment too soon, I sprang up as if I was standing. In my amazement, I felt wonderful, light as a feather, reborn if you will. I effortlessly went to my closet mirror which was a few feet away from my bed. I stood before my mirror looking at my reflection, short cut hair, no glasses, white-t shirt, black shorts, and eyes in amazement. I remember saying, "Whoa!" I turned to my right, and walked a few steps to my bathroom, and again saw my reflection, short cut hair, no glasses, white-t shirt, black shorts, and eyes in amazement.
I turned around and left my bathroom. Let me tell you now that at that time I was in a small hotel-like room. I was heading for the door, which is close to my bed, and stopped and noticed the pattern of my comforter. I also noticed a lump underneath the bedsheets, and that the comforter was undisturbed. Before I knew it, the only way I can describe is that, a feeling of sudden truth piercing my soul, hit me. That was body underneath that comforter.
I didn't linger, because I really wanted to go outside. I physically open the door with my hand, went outside, and closed the door behind me. I moved a few feet away from my door and noticed that I was ascending up, not super fast, not super slow. I was in an upright position, looking down. 25ft, 50ft, 100ft, 300ft, 500ft, maybe higher. While I was ascending I noticed the apartment complexes around me, the green grass, the trees, the sunshine. As I was going higher, way above the apartment complexes, above the trees, I felt lost and lonely, sort of like, where do I go from here. Something went through my mind, in the likes of, "close your eyes, and think where you want to be, and that's where you'll be."
Well, it gets totally weird after closing my eyes and thinking where I want to be. I did not know where I was after closing my eyes. I remember coming down from the sky as If I was floating. I noticed the water around, I also noticed some ships, I think I was in a dock. Anyway, I saw a guy, with which what looked like a shotgun, and aimed and shot at me. I floated down slowly to where I was flat on a pavement, sort of like my cheek was looking at the ground. I turned around, stood upward and faced the guy, with a feeling of anxiety. Next thing I knew, he shot himself. A few moments went by it seemed like I was walking around a dock with many ships. I believe I was looking for someone.
After walking around I noticed a dark-colored man, next to an entrance to a small house. He said something about, "The Miss...", referring to a woman, exactly what he said escapes my mind at the moment. I walked inside this house and saw a lady with blond hair. I remember feeling somewhat of an attraction, she felt beautiful to me. I said something to her, but it felt like I wasn't controlling what I was saying, like my mouth was saying something, but my mind was empty. I remember saying, "Do you know Greg?", She said, "No I don't." I asked her again, as if I was desperate, "Do you know Greg?" She said, "No." I said, "Greg is the type of person that would make connections with people without ever meeting them." She said, "Oh no, we have to find him." Right when she said that, I felt a feeling that I was slipping away.
A few moments after I 'slipped away', I noticed that I was under my sheets, still from head to toe. I took a few deep breaths. While I took these breaths I felt like my energy was totally drained, as if the life was sucked out of me. I pushed away the blankets with my arm and got up as fast I can with great effort. The feeling of my drained energy overcame the feeling of my curiosity of my new experience. I was glad that I was alive.
This is the first time I've had this type of experience. I know this wasn't a dream because I had a tremendous presence of mind compared to dreams. The same type of presence as I have now typing this post on my laptop and thinking about the events that happened.
I've had some experiences where I'd be dreaming, but my mind was awake, sort of a presence of mind. I've also experience dreams that felt so real that it could be true. The difference between this experience is that it just felt too personal, and I had a tremendous presence of mind compared to a dream.
I've discussed this experience with only my immediate family and one other person.
I believe in being true to myself. I also believe in the saying, the truth will set you free. I truly want answers.
Some questions that arose thinking back at my experience that I want answered:
1. Why was there no one there to greet me when I died?
2. Why was I alone?
3. What do I do now?
4. If that happens to me again, where do I go? What should I do?
I've been searching for answers to life's questions. There are just so many religions out there claiming to be the truth. There are people that die every day with many experiences of their own. Again, there are just so many Religions and faiths out there claiming to be the truth.
I guess for now, I'll just go with the flow. Respect others, respect myself, and just live.
Anyway thank you for reading what I typed. I've been at it for a little over an hour thinking and typing. You all take it easy.
Hi,
This is my first post. I was lurking around on google.com trying to find some answers to my experience, and what do you know, this page showed up, so I decided to register and post my experience.
I believe I died around April of this year.
The mindset I had was that I was depressed, I won't bore you with the reasons why, but I did not intend to kill myself. For the sake of the story, my name is Greg, although that is not my real name. This story is from my own personal experience. Now my experience:
I was alone in my room, it was around mid-day and it was quiet, I may have heard a maid or two cleaning other rooms. There was sunshine outside. I decided to go to bed because I was tired, sad, and I basically felt alone. I went to bed, placing my glasses on the counter next to me. I had 3 bed-sheets over my whole body, from head to toe; a thin bed-sheet, a thin blanket, and a comforter. I closed my eyes and started to breathe slowly. I was in a depressed state and I believe that affected my breathing pattern. Before I knew it, I was breathing very slowly, and I remember thinking to myself, something along the lines of, "I'm going to die if I don't breathe.", a few short moments later, I thought to myself, "Oh well, I don't care."
Not a moment too soon, I sprang up as if I was standing. In my amazement, I felt wonderful, light as a feather, reborn if you will. I effortlessly went to my closet mirror which was a few feet away from my bed. I stood before my mirror looking at my reflection, short cut hair, no glasses, white-t shirt, black shorts, and eyes in amazement. I remember saying, "Whoa!" I turned to my right, and walked a few steps to my bathroom, and again saw my reflection, short cut hair, no glasses, white-t shirt, black shorts, and eyes in amazement.
I turned around and left my bathroom. Let me tell you now that at that time I was in a small hotel-like room. I was heading for the door, which is close to my bed, and stopped and noticed the pattern of my comforter. I also noticed a lump underneath the bedsheets, and that the comforter was undisturbed. Before I knew it, the only way I can describe is that, a feeling of sudden truth piercing my soul, hit me. That was body underneath that comforter.
I didn't linger, because I really wanted to go outside. I physically open the door with my hand, went outside, and closed the door behind me. I moved a few feet away from my door and noticed that I was ascending up, not super fast, not super slow. I was in an upright position, looking down. 25ft, 50ft, 100ft, 300ft, 500ft, maybe higher. While I was ascending I noticed the apartment complexes around me, the green grass, the trees, the sunshine. As I was going higher, way above the apartment complexes, above the trees, I felt lost and lonely, sort of like, where do I go from here. Something went through my mind, in the likes of, "close your eyes, and think where you want to be, and that's where you'll be."
Well, it gets totally weird after closing my eyes and thinking where I want to be. I did not know where I was after closing my eyes. I remember coming down from the sky as If I was floating. I noticed the water around, I also noticed some ships, I think I was in a dock. Anyway, I saw a guy, with which what looked like a shotgun, and aimed and shot at me. I floated down slowly to where I was flat on a pavement, sort of like my cheek was looking at the ground. I turned around, stood upward and faced the guy, with a feeling of anxiety. Next thing I knew, he shot himself. A few moments went by it seemed like I was walking around a dock with many ships. I believe I was looking for someone.
After walking around I noticed a dark-colored man, next to an entrance to a small house. He said something about, "The Miss...", referring to a woman, exactly what he said escapes my mind at the moment. I walked inside this house and saw a lady with blond hair. I remember feeling somewhat of an attraction, she felt beautiful to me. I said something to her, but it felt like I wasn't controlling what I was saying, like my mouth was saying something, but my mind was empty. I remember saying, "Do you know Greg?", She said, "No I don't." I asked her again, as if I was desperate, "Do you know Greg?" She said, "No." I said, "Greg is the type of person that would make connections with people without ever meeting them." She said, "Oh no, we have to find him." Right when she said that, I felt a feeling that I was slipping away.
A few moments after I 'slipped away', I noticed that I was under my sheets, still from head to toe. I took a few deep breaths. While I took these breaths I felt like my energy was totally drained, as if the life was sucked out of me. I pushed away the blankets with my arm and got up as fast I can with great effort. The feeling of my drained energy overcame the feeling of my curiosity of my new experience. I was glad that I was alive.
This is the first time I've had this type of experience. I know this wasn't a dream because I had a tremendous presence of mind compared to dreams. The same type of presence as I have now typing this post on my laptop and thinking about the events that happened.
I've had some experiences where I'd be dreaming, but my mind was awake, sort of a presence of mind. I've also experience dreams that felt so real that it could be true. The difference between this experience is that it just felt too personal, and I had a tremendous presence of mind compared to a dream.
I've discussed this experience with only my immediate family and one other person.
I believe in being true to myself. I also believe in the saying, the truth will set you free. I truly want answers.
Some questions that arose thinking back at my experience that I want answered:
1. Why was there no one there to greet me when I died?
2. Why was I alone?
3. What do I do now?
4. If that happens to me again, where do I go? What should I do?
I've been searching for answers to life's questions. There are just so many religions out there claiming to be the truth. There are people that die every day with many experiences of their own. Again, there are just so many Religions and faiths out there claiming to be the truth.
I guess for now, I'll just go with the flow. Respect others, respect myself, and just live.
Anyway thank you for reading what I typed. I've been at it for a little over an hour thinking and typing. You all take it easy.
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I believe in no such thing. There is no basis for this belief whatsoever. When your body dies, your consciousness fades. It is gone, and it is dead. Your consciousness is not a "thingy" that is separate in some way from your "physical body." That kind of bullshit concept is a hangover from vitalism. You cannot remove your consciousness from your brain as if it were some kind of substance. It may look like you can do this with a computer disc, but this is because computer discs were made for being capable of being analyzed in a thorough manner.
Even when you read a magnetic disc, you are really just looking at a flat field consisting of tiny, little rods of iron. Some of them are standing straight-up, and some of them are laying down. There are billions of them on the disc, but you can get to any sequence of them by typing in a simple address. To read a file on your machine, a little magnetic sensor hovers over a fixed location while your disc spins at a certain speed. This does not emit a stream of numbers. It really works a lot more like Morse code, just on a smaller level. It's easy to read a magnetic disc because it is DESIGNED to be easy to access and read.
On the other hand, our brains are NOT easy to access and read. They are an immensely complicated tangle of axons and dendrites. Axons are little strings that have these buds called "axon terminals" at the ends of them. The buds (axon terminals) are loaded with an immensely variable mixture of different chemicals. Dendrites are little sensors on the surface of your brain cells, and every dendrite has a unique "palate" that it uses to "taste" the chemicals that are released by the axon terminals. When your dendrites taste certain chemicals, it "does stuff" that will either raise or lower its "action potential," and it does this by "breathing" in or out. This "breathing" is highly selective, though. For example, through ONE hole, it might inhale a positively charged chemical. Through another, it might exhale a negatively charged chemical. The chemicals that your neurons breathe in and out are, quite obviously, a lot smaller than the chemicals that they use their dendrites in order to "taste."
Every single neuron in your entire brain is unique and irreplaceable, and there is no possible way to get a good look at all of them withoiut damaging most of them in the process. It absolutely can't be done. It's like a person, for your neurons really are LIVING BEINGS. They are tiny, little animals, and these animals are extremely social by nature. One neuron can be "friends" with thousands of other neurons that it is constantly in contact with. It puts your Facebook friends list to shame. With around one hundred billion neurons in your entire brain, you are not just a single entity, my friend. You are a HUGE, FUCKING CIVILIZATION.
You can't just take your consciousness out of your head like some genie-in-a-bottle. It doesn't work that way.
Even when you read a magnetic disc, you are really just looking at a flat field consisting of tiny, little rods of iron. Some of them are standing straight-up, and some of them are laying down. There are billions of them on the disc, but you can get to any sequence of them by typing in a simple address. To read a file on your machine, a little magnetic sensor hovers over a fixed location while your disc spins at a certain speed. This does not emit a stream of numbers. It really works a lot more like Morse code, just on a smaller level. It's easy to read a magnetic disc because it is DESIGNED to be easy to access and read.
On the other hand, our brains are NOT easy to access and read. They are an immensely complicated tangle of axons and dendrites. Axons are little strings that have these buds called "axon terminals" at the ends of them. The buds (axon terminals) are loaded with an immensely variable mixture of different chemicals. Dendrites are little sensors on the surface of your brain cells, and every dendrite has a unique "palate" that it uses to "taste" the chemicals that are released by the axon terminals. When your dendrites taste certain chemicals, it "does stuff" that will either raise or lower its "action potential," and it does this by "breathing" in or out. This "breathing" is highly selective, though. For example, through ONE hole, it might inhale a positively charged chemical. Through another, it might exhale a negatively charged chemical. The chemicals that your neurons breathe in and out are, quite obviously, a lot smaller than the chemicals that they use their dendrites in order to "taste."
Every single neuron in your entire brain is unique and irreplaceable, and there is no possible way to get a good look at all of them withoiut damaging most of them in the process. It absolutely can't be done. It's like a person, for your neurons really are LIVING BEINGS. They are tiny, little animals, and these animals are extremely social by nature. One neuron can be "friends" with thousands of other neurons that it is constantly in contact with. It puts your Facebook friends list to shame. With around one hundred billion neurons in your entire brain, you are not just a single entity, my friend. You are a HUGE, FUCKING CIVILIZATION.
You can't just take your consciousness out of your head like some genie-in-a-bottle. It doesn't work that way.
I like the IDEA of one. I can't really believe in one though.
I don't know. Maybe scientists will actually find out that there is some kind of substance that can leaves your brain after death, and that substance is your soul, consciousness, whatever.
Until then I'll go with reason instead of wishful thinking.
I don't know. Maybe scientists will actually find out that there is some kind of substance that can leaves your brain after death, and that substance is your soul, consciousness, whatever.
Until then I'll go with reason instead of wishful thinking.
At truthster:
I first need to warn you there are some people here who are very skeptical and have very strong opinions about this kind of experiences, they will insist there are delusions, etc. Please do not take it personally, I think not believing in these things is the appropriate way to approach them initially.
I have had some simmilar experiences. under different and simmilar circumstances. What I believe is you may have had just a dream, but if you have really rule this out, you might have had an "out of body" experience where your spirit goes and wanders around. Some people say we all have this kind of experiences frequently when we go to sleep, we just do not remember. You might have caused this by just focusing on your breathing.
The intersting thing is that you had this experience in a moment when you felt depressed. It could be a prompt for you to start exploring the spiritual world to help you balance your life. I would say, start by reading about hinduism, I believe they know about these things.
Until you find your answers I would say continue with your regular life and if you find reasons to be depressed in your regular life, you can always remember that what you see around you is not all, the most important things in life are in the spiritual world, not in what you can see or perceive...., good luck!
I first need to warn you there are some people here who are very skeptical and have very strong opinions about this kind of experiences, they will insist there are delusions, etc. Please do not take it personally, I think not believing in these things is the appropriate way to approach them initially.
I have had some simmilar experiences. under different and simmilar circumstances. What I believe is you may have had just a dream, but if you have really rule this out, you might have had an "out of body" experience where your spirit goes and wanders around. Some people say we all have this kind of experiences frequently when we go to sleep, we just do not remember. You might have caused this by just focusing on your breathing.
The intersting thing is that you had this experience in a moment when you felt depressed. It could be a prompt for you to start exploring the spiritual world to help you balance your life. I would say, start by reading about hinduism, I believe they know about these things.
Until you find your answers I would say continue with your regular life and if you find reasons to be depressed in your regular life, you can always remember that what you see around you is not all, the most important things in life are in the spiritual world, not in what you can see or perceive...., good luck!
Poisoning the well?
We may not insist on your fantasies being delusions, you simply may be insane, instead. That would also explain a lot.
Some might not insist insanity and/or delusion have no place in their lives as the things they can see and perceive demand attention and take up most if not all of their time. There is also a great deal of enjoyment that can be gleaned from reality as opposed to the nothingness of delusion.
Clearly, you have way too much time on your hands. Are you unemployed and living in your parents basement?